Hi everyone, it’s time to share another review. This time I built a 42mm Rolex Explorer II with reference 216570 and Bock dial.
Overall, I used the following parts (explanation as below)
Gen Black dial
Gen LEC/AR crystal
Gen 3187 Date Disc
Swiss 2836 - GMT modified and serviced
Gen Rubber B Orange Bracelet
Noob clasp
Noob crown
Noob bezel
Noob Case
BP 2836 Black dial hands
As a Backup I have
Noob SS bracelet with
gen but little damaged 93150 clasp.
This is how it’s going to look like
Overall
In general, there is two watches out there, which can be used as a base for this project: Either the Explorer II from BP Factory or the one from Noob Factory.
But before going into details and starting comparisons between both, you need to clarify a fundamental thing with yourself: Which version do you prefer? ICHS or CHS...that makes the difference.
CHS = Correct Hand Stack
Sequence of hands is gen like.
From dial to sapphire: Hour hand, GMT hand, Minute hand, Second hand
ICHS - Incorrect Hand Stack
Sequence not gen like. GMT and Hour hand are switched.
From dial to sapphire: GMT, Hour, Minute, Second
Why is this so crucial? Usually you would always go with the more gen like version, no doubt. But this time I decided against it. Everything starts with the movement...
Movement
CHS movements are known for its instability. It’s so much unreliable, that even 3 well known watch smiths told me to purchase rather ICHS one. One of them even rejected doing a service on CHS version. Additionally, some TDs stopped selling it - and that means something.
However and as always, there is also a group of people having no problems with it at all, once you treat it carefully. Means, no manual winding - just keep it in your watch winder - and no counter clockwise setting of GMT hand.
After further readings, it seems that there is also an upgraded, more reliable CHS movement out there, as it was a year ago.
While “old” one was a modified 2836 to 3186 CHS, new one seems to be a modified 2824 to CHS 3186. However, no one was able to confirm that to me.
You should know, that both versions are still incorrect because Rolex uses 3187 movement for its Explorer 216570 and not 3186 - where the Asian 28xy are optically modified to. The main difference is, that 3187 is bigger (diameter) than 3186 because of 42mm Explorer case size. Means, modified Asian 3186 movements are based on 2824/2836 and use their natural diameter. Thus, they do still need a movement ring...
So why shall I go for a more risky movement, if this is still incorrect at the end...
And by the way, only freeks will tell the sequence of GMT hands... I know owners of gen GMTs and no one of them has a clue about. In addition, I count a gen Swiss ETA as a gen part. A replicated Asian 28XY with modified GMT and winding bridge is still a rep. While people around me do know that I’m building/assembling some watches, I’d rather tell those who would ever spot the sequence, the real reason of a gen Swiss movement, instead of just having a replicated and unreliable movement.
By the way, there is a Swiss GMT movement, called 2893-2. It’s little thinner (1mm) and fits to the case. The main advantage, it has no rotor noise because of a ball-bearing rotor. BUT „Ado“ told me, hands will sit too low because of pinion high and this will cause scratches on the dial while running. Anyway, I remember I‘ve read somewhere that another member solved this issue somehow. Honestly, if you have the chance to find a solution, do it!
I HATE ALL 2836/2824 or however they are called and which version they are. Neither swiss nor Asian... All of them have, based on their construction, some rotor noises while shaking. Not that loud that you can hear it while wearing, but if you shake it you will hear it. And that’s ugly!! Therefore, I would always prefer a ball-bearing based rotor and I’m still thinking about switching movement again. Maybe a gmt modified Yuki...or if someone jumps in because of a 2893-2 solution.
With regards to gen parts compatibility:
Because of the wrong size of 2824/2836, you cannot mount a gen dial on both (ICHS and CHS) w/o clipping dial feet or drilling new wholes - which could be tricky.
And keep in mind, due to size gen dial will also not fit on Yuki or whatever else. Only gen 3187 will fit for dial, but this is out of scope...
Date Disc
Same goes for Gen DateDisc.
Basically, you can only mount a gen date disc as an overlay (DWO). Therefore, ICHS version seemed to be even better because it uses H4 pinion high and leaves more space to mount DWO w/o sanding.
And by the way, none of the pre installed DWOs are 100% centered (ICHS and CHS). While some numbers are, some others are still more left orientated. Seems to be the DWO in general.
However, there is a big BUT!!!! that I had to realize and wasted 100€... Gen 3135/3186 DateDisc DOESN’T work as well!!! 41mm Datejust models and 42mm Explorer are using a different DateDisc which is wider because of different diameter. Sounds logical, but to figure out that this is the case we already cut the date teeth of my gen 3135 and realized that it’s completely left oriented.... At the beginning we didn’t know the reason until another great member supported us (BananSplit) and shared that we need 3187 Date Disc. Thus, I spent another 130€ for a gen one. Ado213 did a great job and fitted this as a DWO. It’s now in the same tolerance as gens are. So really good!
Hands
The only CHS advantage with regards to gen compabilities seems the hand set. Because CHS accepts gen hands. Yes, I would prefer gen ones as well, but honestly, both rep hands of noob and BP are quite ok.
IMO, a watch its basic function should be displaying the time as accurate as possible. Therefore, this function should work as much as reliable. I do also travel a lot and use regularly the GMT function on my gen GMT Master. Reliability is crucial to me - even more crucial than something like CHS which no one will ever notice. And again, I have a lots of friends with gen Rolex. They sometimes even don’t know how to set the second time zone. So how the hell should someone spot a hand sequence...
Case
If we have a look onto the different cases, there is the following I noticed:
The Rehaut of BP not really good. The
Noob is ok. Some say, there has been a better Noob version out before. But don’t know which one, and rehaut is ok for me.
CGs on BP are not synchronized. Therefore, crown is not centered.
CGs on Noob seem a little bit too thick, compared to gen, but are way better.
And sanding down is way easier than having too less steal.
Noob 2813 case seems to be exact the same case as the more expensive 2836 ones. Therefore, I’d recommend to purchase a cheap edition and upgrade to Swiss ETA then. Of course you need a fitting dial and new hands because 2813 dial and hands won’t fit on 2836.
Crown
Crown seems to be same on both. Nonetheless, BP has better mechanisms. And Noob is very tough to screw in. Maybe this is related to the tube. For me, Noob one is ok.
Bezel
It was a long process and tough decision. Which bezel is the best... Noob, BP or rather invest in Gen... Finally I came to the conclusion that BP is closer to gen in terms of overall look and feel.
While Noob has deeper numeral engravings they sometimes appear more bold and look very heavy. Instead BP’s are sometimes too thin - but overall look more equal. Main decisions for BP is the polishing of the inner side from the bezel ring. Overall, this looks more gen like on the BP and makes the complete bezel appear more thin and gen like. Noob comes a little bit overdimensioned....
At the end it’s a mix of both worlds. BP does the polishing on inner and outer edges better, Noob has better engravings. I’m total, BP looks more gen like to me. However, had to take Noob bezel so far, because BP doesn’t sit tight with gen Crystal and gen gasket. You can still rotate the bezel then while Noob stays strong in place. Maybe I will go for a gen bezel one day or try with BP gasket again.
Bracelet and Clasp
I’m not a big fan of both bracelets and clasps. Anyway, Noob SELs are way better than BP. They are really good. Clasp is also better on Noob. Bracelet itself feels smoother on BP. However, to fit them very tight to the case you can’t use gen Spring Bars like on other watches.
Why, because Noob lug wholes are too thin to fit spring bars in. Ok you could drill them and BP would work without drilling, BUT both SELs are too thin and you cannot get spring bars through SELs. So no chance to go with thick gen spring bars. Because of all this and because I love it, I purchase a gen Rubber B in orange. For those of you who might have had a rep Rubber B, forget it. They are wasted money and cheap gum. Rubber B feels completely different and is vulcaniced rubber. It’s worth the 150€ and way cheaper than a gen bracelet. I used the Noob clasp on it. Anyway, I’m thinking about switching to my 93150 clasp although this is absolutely not correct model for it.
Crystal
The crystal code for gen 216570 exp2 sapphire 42mm is: b25-318-c-v3-c1
I pulled the trigger on a gen one and once you change the Noob to gen, it’s a different of day and night. All of a sudden you see the dial in complete new colors with all its flaws or usage (and I’m not joking). Usually I wouldn’t mention this, but this time it was extreme to see difference. However, I’ve to admit the BP crystal is very good!!! Even so good that I thought keeping this instead of gen and saving some funds. The magnification is not 100% same as per gen, but the AR effect is really good and crown is truly invisible (at least on my version). It’s mounted with a white dial and even with lots of light etc. crown is hardly noticeable. IMO you could live with BP one.
Dial
I didn’t had a black Noob dial to compare, but on the BP dial you can see a clear difference for gen and BP. The “black” and finish is different. Gen “shines” more. Orange Explorer has also much nicer printing. My gen dial is used with some marks, but under the crystal it’s not that easy to see. And I prefer used but gen instead of new and rep.
That’s it. Thanks for reading and hope this can support some new builds.
BTW
If I’m allowed to share, there is a nice CHS vs Gen comparison from another member
https://forum.replica-watch.info/fo...as/284033-big-noob-explorer-216570-chs-thread
„Time doesn‘t exist. Clocks exist.“
Overall, I used the following parts (explanation as below)
Gen Black dial
Gen LEC/AR crystal
Gen 3187 Date Disc
Swiss 2836 - GMT modified and serviced
Gen Rubber B Orange Bracelet
Noob clasp
Noob crown
Noob bezel
Noob Case
BP 2836 Black dial hands
As a Backup I have
Noob SS bracelet with
gen but little damaged 93150 clasp.
This is how it’s going to look like
Overall
In general, there is two watches out there, which can be used as a base for this project: Either the Explorer II from BP Factory or the one from Noob Factory.
But before going into details and starting comparisons between both, you need to clarify a fundamental thing with yourself: Which version do you prefer? ICHS or CHS...that makes the difference.
CHS = Correct Hand Stack
Sequence of hands is gen like.
From dial to sapphire: Hour hand, GMT hand, Minute hand, Second hand
ICHS - Incorrect Hand Stack
Sequence not gen like. GMT and Hour hand are switched.
From dial to sapphire: GMT, Hour, Minute, Second
Why is this so crucial? Usually you would always go with the more gen like version, no doubt. But this time I decided against it. Everything starts with the movement...
Movement
CHS movements are known for its instability. It’s so much unreliable, that even 3 well known watch smiths told me to purchase rather ICHS one. One of them even rejected doing a service on CHS version. Additionally, some TDs stopped selling it - and that means something.
However and as always, there is also a group of people having no problems with it at all, once you treat it carefully. Means, no manual winding - just keep it in your watch winder - and no counter clockwise setting of GMT hand.
After further readings, it seems that there is also an upgraded, more reliable CHS movement out there, as it was a year ago.
While “old” one was a modified 2836 to 3186 CHS, new one seems to be a modified 2824 to CHS 3186. However, no one was able to confirm that to me.
You should know, that both versions are still incorrect because Rolex uses 3187 movement for its Explorer 216570 and not 3186 - where the Asian 28xy are optically modified to. The main difference is, that 3187 is bigger (diameter) than 3186 because of 42mm Explorer case size. Means, modified Asian 3186 movements are based on 2824/2836 and use their natural diameter. Thus, they do still need a movement ring...
So why shall I go for a more risky movement, if this is still incorrect at the end...
And by the way, only freeks will tell the sequence of GMT hands... I know owners of gen GMTs and no one of them has a clue about. In addition, I count a gen Swiss ETA as a gen part. A replicated Asian 28XY with modified GMT and winding bridge is still a rep. While people around me do know that I’m building/assembling some watches, I’d rather tell those who would ever spot the sequence, the real reason of a gen Swiss movement, instead of just having a replicated and unreliable movement.
By the way, there is a Swiss GMT movement, called 2893-2. It’s little thinner (1mm) and fits to the case. The main advantage, it has no rotor noise because of a ball-bearing rotor. BUT „Ado“ told me, hands will sit too low because of pinion high and this will cause scratches on the dial while running. Anyway, I remember I‘ve read somewhere that another member solved this issue somehow. Honestly, if you have the chance to find a solution, do it!
I HATE ALL 2836/2824 or however they are called and which version they are. Neither swiss nor Asian... All of them have, based on their construction, some rotor noises while shaking. Not that loud that you can hear it while wearing, but if you shake it you will hear it. And that’s ugly!! Therefore, I would always prefer a ball-bearing based rotor and I’m still thinking about switching movement again. Maybe a gmt modified Yuki...or if someone jumps in because of a 2893-2 solution.
With regards to gen parts compatibility:
Because of the wrong size of 2824/2836, you cannot mount a gen dial on both (ICHS and CHS) w/o clipping dial feet or drilling new wholes - which could be tricky.
And keep in mind, due to size gen dial will also not fit on Yuki or whatever else. Only gen 3187 will fit for dial, but this is out of scope...
Date Disc
Same goes for Gen DateDisc.
Basically, you can only mount a gen date disc as an overlay (DWO). Therefore, ICHS version seemed to be even better because it uses H4 pinion high and leaves more space to mount DWO w/o sanding.
And by the way, none of the pre installed DWOs are 100% centered (ICHS and CHS). While some numbers are, some others are still more left orientated. Seems to be the DWO in general.
However, there is a big BUT!!!! that I had to realize and wasted 100€... Gen 3135/3186 DateDisc DOESN’T work as well!!! 41mm Datejust models and 42mm Explorer are using a different DateDisc which is wider because of different diameter. Sounds logical, but to figure out that this is the case we already cut the date teeth of my gen 3135 and realized that it’s completely left oriented.... At the beginning we didn’t know the reason until another great member supported us (BananSplit) and shared that we need 3187 Date Disc. Thus, I spent another 130€ for a gen one. Ado213 did a great job and fitted this as a DWO. It’s now in the same tolerance as gens are. So really good!
Hands
The only CHS advantage with regards to gen compabilities seems the hand set. Because CHS accepts gen hands. Yes, I would prefer gen ones as well, but honestly, both rep hands of noob and BP are quite ok.
IMO, a watch its basic function should be displaying the time as accurate as possible. Therefore, this function should work as much as reliable. I do also travel a lot and use regularly the GMT function on my gen GMT Master. Reliability is crucial to me - even more crucial than something like CHS which no one will ever notice. And again, I have a lots of friends with gen Rolex. They sometimes even don’t know how to set the second time zone. So how the hell should someone spot a hand sequence...
Case
If we have a look onto the different cases, there is the following I noticed:
The Rehaut of BP not really good. The
Noob is ok. Some say, there has been a better Noob version out before. But don’t know which one, and rehaut is ok for me.
CGs on BP are not synchronized. Therefore, crown is not centered.
CGs on Noob seem a little bit too thick, compared to gen, but are way better.
And sanding down is way easier than having too less steal.
Noob 2813 case seems to be exact the same case as the more expensive 2836 ones. Therefore, I’d recommend to purchase a cheap edition and upgrade to Swiss ETA then. Of course you need a fitting dial and new hands because 2813 dial and hands won’t fit on 2836.
Crown
Crown seems to be same on both. Nonetheless, BP has better mechanisms. And Noob is very tough to screw in. Maybe this is related to the tube. For me, Noob one is ok.
Bezel
It was a long process and tough decision. Which bezel is the best... Noob, BP or rather invest in Gen... Finally I came to the conclusion that BP is closer to gen in terms of overall look and feel.
While Noob has deeper numeral engravings they sometimes appear more bold and look very heavy. Instead BP’s are sometimes too thin - but overall look more equal. Main decisions for BP is the polishing of the inner side from the bezel ring. Overall, this looks more gen like on the BP and makes the complete bezel appear more thin and gen like. Noob comes a little bit overdimensioned....
At the end it’s a mix of both worlds. BP does the polishing on inner and outer edges better, Noob has better engravings. I’m total, BP looks more gen like to me. However, had to take Noob bezel so far, because BP doesn’t sit tight with gen Crystal and gen gasket. You can still rotate the bezel then while Noob stays strong in place. Maybe I will go for a gen bezel one day or try with BP gasket again.
Bracelet and Clasp
I’m not a big fan of both bracelets and clasps. Anyway, Noob SELs are way better than BP. They are really good. Clasp is also better on Noob. Bracelet itself feels smoother on BP. However, to fit them very tight to the case you can’t use gen Spring Bars like on other watches.
Why, because Noob lug wholes are too thin to fit spring bars in. Ok you could drill them and BP would work without drilling, BUT both SELs are too thin and you cannot get spring bars through SELs. So no chance to go with thick gen spring bars. Because of all this and because I love it, I purchase a gen Rubber B in orange. For those of you who might have had a rep Rubber B, forget it. They are wasted money and cheap gum. Rubber B feels completely different and is vulcaniced rubber. It’s worth the 150€ and way cheaper than a gen bracelet. I used the Noob clasp on it. Anyway, I’m thinking about switching to my 93150 clasp although this is absolutely not correct model for it.
Crystal
The crystal code for gen 216570 exp2 sapphire 42mm is: b25-318-c-v3-c1
I pulled the trigger on a gen one and once you change the Noob to gen, it’s a different of day and night. All of a sudden you see the dial in complete new colors with all its flaws or usage (and I’m not joking). Usually I wouldn’t mention this, but this time it was extreme to see difference. However, I’ve to admit the BP crystal is very good!!! Even so good that I thought keeping this instead of gen and saving some funds. The magnification is not 100% same as per gen, but the AR effect is really good and crown is truly invisible (at least on my version). It’s mounted with a white dial and even with lots of light etc. crown is hardly noticeable. IMO you could live with BP one.
Dial
I didn’t had a black Noob dial to compare, but on the BP dial you can see a clear difference for gen and BP. The “black” and finish is different. Gen “shines” more. Orange Explorer has also much nicer printing. My gen dial is used with some marks, but under the crystal it’s not that easy to see. And I prefer used but gen instead of new and rep.
That’s it. Thanks for reading and hope this can support some new builds.
BTW
If I’m allowed to share, there is a nice CHS vs Gen comparison from another member
https://forum.replica-watch.info/fo...as/284033-big-noob-explorer-216570-chs-thread
„Time doesn‘t exist. Clocks exist.“
