Whos the factories behind the "amazon" watches like Pagani designs etc?

[WatchKnob]

So whats the deal with all these nice looking reps with different brand names thrown on the dials?
seem a million hulks/smurfs/gmts/etc on amazon with just a different logo on dial, crown & clasp.

https://www.amazon.com/PAGRNE-DESIGN-Automatic-Mechanical-Stainless/dp/B0BXKYB92Y/ref=pd_rhf_d_sc_s_pd_sbs_rvi_sccl_2_13/145-0962607-4556556?pd_rd_w=7oeuT&content-id=amzn1.sym.a089f039-4dde-401a-9041-8b534ae99e65&pf_rd_p=a089f039-4dde-401a-9041-8b534ae99e65&pf_rd_r=F3KG5AVB4T9WEAQTDG4Z&pd_rd_wg=j0fmA&pd_rd_r=8a1ce014-1b98-4ae1-ac0a-3050ed4c0e36&pd_rd_i=B0BXL34PLJ&th=1

are these noob's or something they are cranking out with just some logo changes?

 

[p0pperini]

are these noob's or something they are cranking out with just some logo changes?

Nope. They're "proper" brands. But they almost certainly get their cases and various other parts made by the same manufacturers who are churning out the parts used in reps.

 

[GR!P]

pagani designs is relatively low quality (still good value tho), i doubt any of the reps discussed on this forum use any of the same components.
With brands like san martin and seestern/sugess that is likely an entirely different situation.

 

[muiramas]

They’re DH Gate level reps with different branding.

 

[eBoy]

Nope. They're "proper" brands. But they almost certainly get their cases and various other parts made by the same manufacturers who are churning out the parts used in reps.

Exactly. There are no parts manufacturers that could exist solely for the purpose of producing rep parts.

They need a front operation to appear legit.

 

[muiramas]

They need a front operation to appear legit.

More than just a front. ‘Homage world’ is big business. It catches the chumps who say ‘I like the design but I would never buy a fake’. Idiots.

 

[Karbon74]

More than just a front. ‘Homage world’ is big business. It catches the chumps who say ‘I like the design but I would never buy a fake’. Idiots.

Hey !
I am one of those "idiots"

Ok I would not buy a Pagani but I have bought a San Martin and a Sugess. The build quality rivals the BP Explorer 1 I bought afterwards and the movements feel much less gritty on hand wind.

It is credible that part of the production of cases and bezels go into reps.

I also suspect that there is a parallel market on parts to convert those into full reps.

 

[muiramas]

Hey !
I am one of those "idiots"

Ok I would not buy a Pagani but I have bought a San Martin and a Sugess. The build quality rivals the BP Explorer 1 I bought afterwards and the movements feel much less gritty on hand wind.

It is credible that part of the production of cases and bezels go into reps.

I also suspect that there is a parallel market on parts to convert those into full reps.

Nah, I mean they’re chumps in the sense that they are still buying a fake, they just think that because it’s got some bullshit name like PENIS / PARNIS on the dial, or some other minor change it makes it a gen.

Which I guess is plausible. I just see it that if you’re going to wear a rip off a design, there’s no really no less honour in ripping off the logo as well. That goes for maker and wearer.

 

[eBoy]

More than just a front. ‘Homage world’ is big business. It catches the chumps who say ‘I like the design but I would never buy a fake’. Idiots.

I was joking.

 

[dpd3672]

Nah, I mean they’re chumps in the sense that they are still buying a fake, they just think that because it’s got some bullshit name like PENIS / PARNIS on the dial, or some other minor change it makes it a gen.

Which I guess is plausible. I just see it that if you’re going to wear a rip off a design, there’s no really no less honour in ripping off the logo as well. That goes for maker and wearer.

Let's face it, there's not an abundance of originality in the watch business, and even the most respected watch makers are guilty of producing "homages" of each other, or using off the shelf movements, even in their flagship models.

So is an (older) Rolex Daytona just a "homage" of a Zenith El Primero? Is the Submariner a rip off of the Fifty Fathoms?

The "Amazon" brands are just doing what every brand from "Parnis/Pagani" to Casio to Seiko to Rolex has done since wristwatches went from being a tool to being a fashion accessory for the masses...they're putting their name on a popular design or style...sometimes adding their own twist...and earning a living doing it.

I don't get the apparent outrage, especially on a forum dedicated to ripping off IPs of luxury items, lol.

 

[Karbon74]

I agree. Before I started to get to learn about brands, I would not have recognized a Blancpain 50F from a Sub, if the logo was hidden

Also ref the OP title...don't buy those on Amazon. Go for AliExpress

All the amazon vendors do dropship anyway.
@muiramas You might want to try one San Martin one day. Irrespective whether they are homages or not, they are very good watches. Easily mid tier swiss brand quality.

 

[dpd3672]

I agree. Before I started to get to learn about brands, I would not have recognized a Blancpain 50F from a Sub, if the logo was hidden

Also ref the OP title...don't buy those on Amazon. Go for AliExpress

All the amazon vendors do dropship anyway.
@muiramas You might want to try one San Martin one day. Irrespective whether they are homages or not, they are very good watches. Easily mid tier swiss brand quality.

I've picked up a couple from the Chinese homage brands. A couple (Parnis?) Panerai homages, to see if I liked the style (the no longer produced "Marina Militare" watches in a few different sizes and finishes), Parnis Submariner and Explorer II, an Addiesdive quartz "Submariner" that I beat on most days at work, and the Steeldive version of the Omega Ploprof, since I can't justify the gen, and the reps are no longer available (having it modded with some help here to be a bit more "Omega-like").

I can't say the quality is lacking, they're comparable to the Seiko/Citizen/Timex watches I see at similar to much higher price points. Nowhere near the finish quality of gens or better reps, but they also sell at a fraction of the price. I don't have long term experience with them, but I'd suspect the movements probably see a bit more QC than many of our reps, even the better ones.

I'd say they're equivalent to $200-500 watches you'd see in a store, selling for $50-150, and represent an outstanding value if they check the boxes you're looking for. For that matter, I'd lump Invicta in with these brands, although it's a lot closer to mainstream than the brands mentioned previously.

 

[Karbon74]

San Martin & Sugess are one cut above Parnis, Addisdive, Pagani

Sugess has a few original designs but San Martin does not really. They don't have the brand power yet to sell original designs.

Plus as we all suspect, part of their money is probably made providing for the rep business...in all legality as a case and a bezel are unbranded.

 

[Got20Mate]

Exactly. Sugess do have a few unique designs and the quality seems to be a cut above. But we are talking margins here.

I've had a load of Pagani and similar ones from AliExpress and they really are all the same. Just well...okay ?

 

[Planetdanny]

I gave a Daytona Pagani to my father and he was visiting and I looked was just a really nice watch. I also had a speedmaster myself and for 100 euros you really can't do anything wrong

 

[Planetdanny]

I like them more than any Seiko watch

 

[Planetdanny]

Exactly. Sugess do have a few unique designs and the quality seems to be a cut above. But we are talking margins here.

I've had a load of Pagani and similar ones from AliExpress and they really are all the same. Just well...okay ?

You must know what Pagani to buy the are not all good kwality

 

[Got20Mate]

You must know what Pagani to buy the are not all good kwality

Not discounting the brand in the slightest, I just think they're okay for the price point. Seiko I'm a fan, but some of the really nice pieces you're not in the same price point. For £100 you're getting a homage that's worth just that, nothing more.

 

[eBoy]

Pagani is a Chinese "brand" that was sued by Pagani Automobili S.p.a. and produces decent-for-the-price design clones of Swiss watches and puts Seiko movements in them.

Seiko is a 140 year old traditional watchmaker with an absolutely impressive heritage, an industry world leader that almost singlehandedly wiped out the Swiss watch industry 40 years ago.

I don't think you can compare the two.

 

[Karbon74]

I have a Seiko SARX029 Urushi

It's a hand made artisan dial. About 15 watches per day only are produced this way.
Real gold dauphine hands
fully made in Japan and only avail for sale there

No Pagani will match that. No San Martin either