White faced DSN PAMs: a few questions

[b_hack]

Hi everyone,

So I was initially shopping for a good quality 113 but further research has expanded (perhaps confused ) my thinking. I was hoping for some clarifications re: options for Rep 113s, 114s and their solid-back counterparts: 03A and 010.

113: DSN seems to have the most accurate rep now that Ruby no longer can source this one. Both have a more accurate face with proper ivory lume dots as opposed to the green color i see in the other reps of the 113. Are there any other dealers that have the accuracy in the face of the DSN model?

114: Unclear if this model is still available -I'm going to ask DSN but wanted some feedback here first. The lack of a proper subdial (not depressed) on the 113 model is a bummer (not a deal-breaker) and so I was looking at the 114 as it lacks this flaw. is the rest of this rep as good as the 113? Are there other good Reps of this model?

Solid-back counterparts (010, 03A): The appeal to these reps are that often incorrect movement is concealed by the rear bezel/cap. I reap a post on RG that suggested the solid back can be purchased from DSN and that these will fit his 113 model... is this true? Is this the only difference between the solid and non-sold back versions of these two watches faces (113/03A) and (114/010)? In other words does are there other meaningful differences between the crystal backed and solid back watches?

DSN makes/made a non gen faithfull 055 white face with a Ti case so that gives me hope that a 114 or 010 could be generated. Is it possible for DSN to offer a custom solution in the event he no longer commonly offers a 114 or 010?

Thanks for the advice/info. My mind was all but made up about the 113 but I just want to explore all options before pulling the trigger on a fairly spendy rep watch.

 

[Rocketeer]

The only issue with the DSN 114 is the E0053/3500 - OP6567 caseback from the 111/113 series is used rather than xx/1200 from the E(2002) 112/114 series.
I'm waiting to find out myself if he has any 010D backs left as I've got a 010/055/114 dial that's been bumped from a Ti case project by a tobacco dial.

The 2001-2003 (D,E,F) 010 is probably the most accurate one to rep as it uses the flat top crown guard and the OP I movement behind a solid back, so put a new ETA 6497 in one with a decent lume job to the dial and hands and you've got a good watch.

 

[hooligan]

...The 2001-2003 (D,E,F) 010 is probably the most accurate one to rep as it uses the flat top crown guard and the OP I movement behind a solid back, so put a new ETA 6497 in one with a decent lume job to the dial and hands and you've got a good watch.

Rocket, the D series was the last of the solid casebacks, my friend. :wink:


b_hack, you can feel free to post my PM reply to you here in this thread, if you think anyone else would find it helpful. I'm too lazy to retype it all.

 

[Rocketeer]

Cheers for that H.
Was busy thinking about the change to the crown guard and forgot the 010 stopped with the D.

Think I might just put one together tomorrow, don't often get to do a white dial Pam.

 

[hooligan]

NP, it happens to all of us at one time or another. :wink:

Here are some pics of my 010D with DSN's correct 010D caseback and his V1 010/114 dial:

Everyone needs one of these. 8)

 

[b_hack]

Hooligan, thanks again for the reply... I'll post it below, your responses are in red.

1) 114 face style - you comment that the v1 DSN face is the "best". If he still has any for sale, what about the later versions is less correct? I must admit I like this style simply because the obvious subdial flaw is no longer an issue.

- The current version has the 6 and 9 that are slightly less "closed" on the curved open end. Also the "L Swiss Made L" is a bit too close to the minute hash marks. I don't believe he has any of his older 114/010 dials left.

2) Has anyone ever modded their 113 face to have the proper subdial depression?

- Nope, not that I'm aware of. This is really something that can't be done after the dial has been manufactured, since the material the dial is made of is brass. If you modified after the fact for the recessed dial, the layers below would no longer be white.

3) Solid case back versions - While I must admit the visible backs are more luxurious, the solid case back makes a mismatched drive mechanism a non-issue as you will never see it. I once saw a post how DSN sold the case back itself. Does DSNs case-back fit onto a 113/114? Is this the only significant difference between the two styles -- it appears to be so...

- Yes, from a visual view point, the only difference between the 113 and 003 or 114 and 010 is that the 003/010 has a solid case back. Yes, DSN's case backs should fit on a "normal" rep case.

4) Lume dots - on the 113 rep, it appears that DSN got it right with ivory colored lume. On the 03A, his pics seem to show a greener lume. Do you have to be very specific with DSN when ordering or is there such great variation in where he sources his materials for construction?

-- AFAIK, the A-D series Panerai watches used plain ol' C3 Luminova and that has a slightly mint green hue. The newer Panerais are the one that have the mix of C1/C3.

5) You said on RG the following re: a solid case-back: "Just be sure to specify that he uses a "standard" rep case and not one of his own." Can you elaborate?

-- Some of DSN's reps use a proprietary case. This case allows for slight larger diameter dials (which is really beside the point for our discussion). However, some of the downsides are the fact that "his" cases have the dial/movement shifted toward the top surface of the case, this results in a taller (incorrect) bezel shape, as well as moving the crown/stem towards the front of the case, so that the crown is no longer centered in the CG. Also, the CGs on his case use different screw spacing, so you couldn't swap a CG from another normal rep case onto a DSN case.

 

[b_hack]

So I've snooped around ebay and other websites to determine/observe the exact nature of the recessed subdial on the 113 face... I'm more perplexed now than ever as it almost looks like the subdial region is "barely" lower than the rest of the face - almost like the difference in depth of a thick layer of paint... Also it appears to be more matte whereas the rest of the white face has a bit more gloss to it. There is currently a slytech face for sale for some serious $$$

http://cgi.ebay.com/Old-Panerai-Pre-Ven ... 1|294%3A50

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how rep faces are made? I now understand they are on a brass platter but how are the numbers/text/symbols printed/painted on the face? Painted by hand? Has anyone purchased an extra face or brass blank. Do they use high-rez images to generate the rep or do they manage to find some sort of diagram/plan of the face? I am guessing it is not this sophisticated but perhaps I am wrong???

 

[b_hack]

Hooligan - BTW if you ever decide to sell your 010 rep - pls let me know!

 

[Rocketeer]

Out of curiosity, does anyone know how rep faces are made? I now understand they are on a brass platter but how are the numbers/text/symbols printed/painted on the face? Painted by hand? Has anyone purchased an extra face or brass blank. Do they use high-rez images to generate the rep or do they manage to find some sort of diagram/plan of the face? I am guessing it is not this sophisticated but perhaps I am wrong???

Ok, a quick dial making 101 on the most typical dials.
The dial artwork is created either from scratch or, for copies, from a high res scan of an original dial or a from a photo if an original dial isn't available.

The dial blank is stamped or CNC cut from sheet brass, this process usually also applies any textured surface markings, although modern high volume dial factories are using laser etching and printing more and more. The blank is then mounted in a jig and the dial feet arc welded on.

After the dial surface colour has been applied and hardened, the text, minute marks and lume base layer is applied, usually by pad printing. Again, modern high volume factories are moving to a type of ink jet printing that's an advanced version of the way some pc printers can print on CD's or DVD's. The lume is then usually applied by screen printing.

 

[b_hack]

Thanks for all of the replies...

I think I am going to start with a 010d from DSN and then perhaps a 113... The 253 is also on my list although the second hand would need a paintjob. The Ti watches also are quite fetching.