Which 1680 to go after???

[GeDi]

Ok ,

i know this has been too popular, like the ''which has the best sub'', so i will try to be specific.


From what i read in Bonesey's Vintage guide, the Puretime version of the 1680 is the best to go if you intend to do NO MODS.

So, i m heading to that direction, but i m confused with the different variations.

I m going after a RED Sub 1680.

I understand that the ''feet or meters first'' have to do, with different production versions.

The thing that bugs me is the open and closed 6 variations.

Which one is the correct ?

Because there is a open 6, a closed 6 and a no 6 mention variation.

http://www.pureti.me/product/vintage-red-submariner-1680-660ft200m-with-opened-6/

http://www.pureti.me/product/vintage-red-submariner-1680-660ft200m-with-closed-6/

http://www.pureti.me/product/vintage-red-submariner-1680-660ft200m/

Which one is the most accurate? OR they are all accurate but different production runs? AND if so, which is the rarest and which is the most common?

Moreover there are Dial1, Dial2, Dial3 variations. Which one is the one to go for?

And finally are the (tropical dial/tropical bezel) and (tropical dial/black bezel) variations accurate or are they just fantasy models?

Thanks.

 

[alligoat]

Red sub dials went basically like this-
1. meters first- open 6s- referred to as MK1
2. meters first- closed 6s - MKII
3. meters first- maybe closed 6s- this is a new designation over at VRF- MKIII
4. feet first, open 6s- now MKIV- used to be a MKIII
5. feet first, closed 6s- MK V
This is the order in which they were produced chronologically
You can go over to VRF and study the dials there
PT's dials are ok- not perfect! I like the two dials w/ open 6s
The tropical dials have never excited me- and they are pretty rare- I'd personally stay away from them.

 

[Ed911]

 

[GeDi]

Thanks buddy!!!
Really useful info.... So you suggest i go with PT version?

I m a little confused with the bracelets versions...

Which one is the correct? or they have to do with production again?

View attachment 31315

View attachment 31316

 

[GeDi]

perfect comparison picture!!! many thanks for this buddy!

the hands in some dial versions are gold? or is it just the picture?

 

[alligoat]

Bracelet for a red sub could be a 7206 w/ 80 ends-early
9315 w/ 380 ends- has the flip lock clasp- middle
93150 w/ 580 ends- later and probably not original to a gen watch, but a legit later replacement.

PT's bracelet is probably wrong, but the one on his GWSD is correct- 93150 w/ 580 ends.

 

[Mendota]

Ask Angus to source you a 93150 bracelet with 580 endlinks instead of the stock bracelet. The stock is a 93250 which is actually a SEL stamp. It will add a few days or a week to your delivery time while he gets it, but it is well worth it. He did that for me no problem. Many gen owners actually store the 9315 and use a 93150 for daily wear since it is light years more comfortable. The original bracelet configurations were hair grabbers and by now have considerable stretch, so in most instances the bracelet sits in the watchbox and the watch head is on a 93150 or a Nato or leather band.

I did all of my communication with him via PM over on RG - not sure if he is active with PMs over here, and with email you frequently get his staff, so that's why he and I did all of our correspondence about this stuff over there on PMs.

I ordered the meters first, closed 6 variation (Mark 1 dial) which is probably the most accurate of his bunch. It is also among the rarest in the wild, but that is what I wanted for my piece.

His insert already has a vintage pearl and it is great, so don't mess with that. People get hot and bothered by large numbers versus thin numbers on the inserts. His insert has the thin numbers. You know what, though? Whenever any gen owners sent their watches in for service guess what insert they were given as a replacement? You got it - the thin number insert. So don't sweat it. The thin numbers are correct for that watch if it received a service overhaul at RSC.

Feet first with open 6s would put you in the early 1970s and there are more of those out in the wild, so it would be a more reasonable vintage piece for the average collector, but I was going for rare not reasonable.

It also accepts a gen crown with no tube swap needed.

Some members have successfully swapped in Tropic crystals without resorting to getting a custom retainer ring, or without getting a new bezel assembly. You need to sand down the crystal somewhere. PJSayer did it recently. Otherwise, you are stuck with the stock crystal since the cyclops is positioned for an ETA movement. A gen or gen-spec crystal with cyclops will obviously have the cyclops positioned for a gen movement. The stock crystal is just fine, so don't bother monkeying with it unless you plan to go bareback without a cyclops.

Here's mine with gen vintage crown installed:

 

[GeDi]

YEAH THATS VERY GOOD INFO... maNY THANKS!!!

And what about the overall thickness of the watch? i see versons vary from 15, 15,5 and even 17 mm thickness (incl. crystal) Which one is correct?

I see TSwatch has also many variations on these...

I guess the 2846 low beat movement is the most accurate versus the 21j.
I suspect also that the 21 j movements are overal lower quality watches in terms of construction also.

And finally are there any versions out there with decent lume? Puretime, Andrew?

Trevor has some vintages listed (The PT version) with very strong lume (at least thats what i see in the picture)

Mark's offering also appears to have good lume..(maybe its a picture tweak?)

http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/new-version-vintage-90123

http://www.tswatchltd.com/10904-ro4910f2--vintage-submariner-black-dial-ss-ss-asian-eta-2836-2.html

 

[GeDi]

i thought this was the original 1680 bracelet .

 

[GeDi]

Mendota,

You went with yellow dial and not white, any reason for your choice?
Your watch is stunning, i would like to see the a lume shot if possible please.

 

[Mendota]

There were a few different bracelet options available, depending on the year released and customer preference. There was a folded and the rivet you showed. Neither is very comfortable for long term, daily desk diving wear. The folded was described as a hair puller on the gen boards. The 93150 is a much better, more comfortable, all around bracelet, so that's why gen owners prefer that one for their daily use.

My Puretime watch indeed has the creamy colored lume and hands. The vintage pearl also matches the coloration nicely. I looked at dozens of gen pics and one thing I noticed was that a lot of them had this creamy color to the lume. Sure, some of them have crazy patinated markers and hands, but this didn't seem to be the norm. That's also why I haven't aged the dial and hands for mine. In fact, the gen I was considering making an offer on had lume markers and hands almost identical in color to mine, so that was good to see.

Lume is very weak on mine. If I charge it up underneath a light or out in the sun and then go into pure darkness, the hands will glow but not brightly. The markers and pearl will faintly glow but quickly lose brightness, as will the hands, but the hands are stronger than the markers and pearl.

In real life, there would not be any luminescence left for my watch. Tritium lume from 1967/1968 would be long dead by now. So I don't really care about the lume on this, knowing that if it were real I would have no lume at all.

Here's my take on patinated markers and hands - I think this is purely personal preference. Many gens have some degree of patina formation, but just as many gens do not. I think it has to do with the tritium, the binding agent, and the way the watch was stored and used. Also, whether the dial is original or is a service replacement dial. The white markers and hands are usually the service replacements.

What's very interesting to see is if you go back a decade earlier, however, when radium was used you will always see patination and in many instances bubbling and expansion of the binding agent, as well. So it becomes not only discolored, but also it has grown! With these radium based watches I think it is totally accurate to go hog wild with the discoloration and patina for the lume markers, but I don't think tritium based watches deserve that much consideration. Just a touch to add a smidge of color and texture, but that's it. Many people take it too far and it no longer looks legit.

Just my personal opinion.

 

[GeDi]

thank you very much for your thoughts, i really appreciate the time and effort you put in your post...

What i i dont get is the differences in these bracelets, "The folded was described as a hair puller on the gen boards. The 93150 is a much better".

Can you post pics of them?

Many thanks,

 

[Mendota]

What I mean is if you read tons of threads about 1680s over on The Rolex Forums and Vintage Rolex Forum, you will see a pattern emerge. In the countless threads I have read, owners have nicknamed the 9315 folded bracelet a "hair grabber" and other similar terms. Quite literally, the links will pull on your arm hairs.

The 93150 does not do this. It is a more comfortable bracelet to wear for an extended period of time. It is also more secure due to the fliplock clasp. These reasons are why many gen owners choose not to use the original bracelet and instead use the 93150.

Hope that helps.

 

[GeDi]

Thanks Mendota,

I understand your message, i just can't find pictures of both to see the differences. Especialy the 9315.

Thanks

 

[arcadia]

Mendota and Alligot already gave much information above re 1680, nothing much to add for your choices re PT. :lol1:

Rep points for you both mates. Sometimes, all you need are straight up answers

 

[GeDi]

I cannot understand the ''open 6'' vs ''closed 6'', maybe its just my eyes.

 

[Bonesey]

The loop on the 6s and 9s is open rather than closed. It does not touch the downstroke. Original date wheels should be open, later service replacement would be closed.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2

 

[GeDi]

Bonesey,

So we are talking about the date wheel and not the 6's on 660 ft.....

Got confused because on the comparison dial picture above, the date wheel was not showing...

Bonesey please feel free to advise on the 1680 case... i ve read tons of threads from you regarding 1680.

 

[BlackSealPanerai]

GeDi mate.. Some info I gathered on the dials for 1680.. The several mk and the open and closed 6 and 9 on the dials..

http://www.doubleredseadweller.com/watch-info/red-sub/untitled.html

 

[GeDi]

BlackSealPanerai ,

Thanks buddy, i had visited this site several time in the past, BUT never gave any attention to this.

Thanks for giving me the light bro, i know now it refers to the dial engravement, i thought is was about the datewheel...

I m problably going for PT version on RED Sub, with the white markers and not the yellow ones, as i ve read they look fakely yellow.

I ll probably ask Ryan if he can source me the PT Red edition, because in his site, he has only the White Vintage Sub listed....

I thought Trevor had also the PT edition, but obviously has the Cartel one.

I was just intrigued, by the Lume, that Trevor's, and Timesshop's Red Sub had.