which 005??

[MillzbuilT]

good morning all,

this is probably my first REAL post. i have been skimming around the site for a couple of months now, reading reviews and thread after thread. I have taken a strong interest in the PAMs prior to coming here thinking I wanted to splurge on a Gen. Yeah...not financially anywhere for an investment like that. which is what brought me here. i wanted to thank everyone with the insight and time put in for the Noobs of this hobby to help make decisions and decide which route we should all go. with that said, i am drawn to the OP logo'd PAM 005. i have checked up on all the TD's, read reviews, communicated back and forth, and i feel im FINALLY ready (after months) to pull the trigger on my first Rep!

Question is...which version is best bang for buck?! Toro offers a "Noob V2.5 with upgraded movement" and i have been in touch with Ryan and says KW has a "new" version also a "super rep" with H fac dial and Noob case...

is it a matter of personal preference at this point? because i cant wait to put one on honestly! and im heading to Europe end of May for a family trip and id like to have it by then

any insight or opinion is welcome. thank you in advance gents!

 

[Blitzgheist]

I am always wary of anything upgraded or modified when it comes to movements. Ryan's PAM111 V3 Noob looks a belter. Ordered one myself as an intro to the Panerai world but already I am looking at getting it some company. Ryan is a great guy to do business with so he would be my recommendation.

 

[MillzbuilT]

i was thinking the same, the 111 looks like a solid piece to go with, but im drawn to the Logo and a closed case back >.< im sure going with ryan will be the best bet. thanks for your input! and enjoy your piece!

 

[ALE7575]

Question is...which version is best bang for buck?! Toro offers a "Noob V2.5 with upgraded movement" and i have been in touch with Ryan and says KW has a "new" version also a "super rep" with H fac dial and Noob case...

Hi friend
Firstly welcome to RWI from Spain

Concerning your watch.
IMO the best version at this moment is Noob N-series version V2 with new dial sausage lume and movement OPII like gen. I don't know why Toro is calling it V2.5, because IFAIK it is the same than called V2 (a commercial trick??).

Do you mean that Ryan says KW is making a new version with H maker dial and Noob case?
This makes no sense because KW is making a new own Luminor case and they were working in a 005 dial to be released soon. But the parts are from their own manufacture, neither from Noob nor from H maker.
Please assure yourself these subjects before take a decision

To get such a combination of parts you would need to go to a modder

ALE

 

[MillzbuilT]

Ale, first of all i want to thank you for the welcome, as you are a major reason i have taken so long to pull the trigger on my first rep! all of your info in the threads and reviews is making me want tomake sure i know as much as i can before i do so.

to clarify, the "super rep" that Ryan has on his site is an H factory dial installed on Noob factory 005. in regards to the other version, Ryan told me that there is a nerwer version of the 005 made by KW.

i can see the "V2.5" as a marketing thing, but makes the prices up a few bucks. either way im itchy and cant wait to play the waiting game after payment and QC's

If Ryan can explain to me in detail a solid difference between what he has access too i will definitely be putting in my order this week for sure!

 

[ALE7575]

Yes. I have just seen the KW version of PAM 005 in Ryan site.
In a first impression the case seems the same as new KW Luminor Boutiques, now under review from Klockis and me.
I have not evaluated yet the dial but it seems that the markers are a little thicker than gen. But seeing the quality of the lume application in Boutiques dial surely it is a very high quality too. Strangely the hands are not Pre-V type.

I have not clear what is the best sausage dial: H maker or Noob V2

H maker is a little thinner and Noob seems a little thicker.
More inputs would be very much appreciated

ALE

 

[Hattrick]

Ale, first of all i want to thank you for the welcome, as you are a major reason i have taken so long to pull the trigger on my first rep! all of your info in the threads and reviews is making me want tomake sure i know as much as i can before i do so.

to clarify, the "super rep" that Ryan has on his site is an H factory dial installed on Noob factory 005. in regards to the other version, Ryan told me that there is a nerwer version of the 005 made by KW.

i can see the "V2.5" as a marketing thing, but makes the prices up a few bucks. either way im itchy and cant wait to play the waiting game after payment and QC's

If Ryan can explain to me in detail a solid difference between what he has access too i will definitely be putting in my order this week for sure!

Like you, I did an exhaustive amount of research on the PAMs and specifically chose the 005 for the logo, second hand at 9 and the closed back.

3 weeks ago, I ended buying TORO's V2.5 and was told the movement was upgraded to 21600bph ??

The communication was good and the QC pics were excellent, however, when the watch arrived.....it didn't work. A few emails were not responded to and when I did end up hearing back from him he indicated the movement might have gotten messed up during shipping ???? ....hhhmmm.

Anyhow, I came across a member here MD2020 who is a watchsmith in Chicago and I ended up shipping the watch to him to take a look at.

He diagnosed the watch as having a broken click spring. He replaced the part, overhauled the watch and as of yesterday shipped it back to me confirming it runs perfectly.

I have contacted TORO with a request for a small credit towards another watch purchase with him but have not received a response in over a week.

I'll try another TD moving forward with future rep purchases.

Caveat Emptor.

 

[45acp]

The .5 in the "V2.5" I believe refers to the improved square cutout CGs that weren't present on V2 N series noob pams. I say this because I have a V2.5 111N and I remember that at the time the most recent improvement was the CGs, but it was before they added the vintage hands which was designated the V3. Unless there's different standards for be 005, I believe that's the case.

I have a V2 005N from noob and it is pretty much perfect. Any improvements possible would be so small that I probably wouldn't notice them, unless the crystal truly is gen-spec.

 

[MillzbuilT]

Like you, I did an exhaustive amount of research on the PAMs and specifically chose the 005 for the logo, second hand at 9 and the closed back.

3 weeks ago, I ended buying TORO's V2.5 and was told the movement was upgraded to 21600bph ??

The communication was good and the QC pics were excellent, however, when the watch arrived.....it didn't work. A few emails were not responded to and when I did end up hearing back from him he indicated the movement might have gotten messed up during shipping ???? ....hhhmmm.

Anyhow, I came across a member here MD2020 who is a watchsmith in Chicago and I ended up shipping the watch to him to take a look at.

He diagnosed the watch as having a broken click spring. He replaced the part, overhauled the watch and as of yesterday shipped it back to me confirming it runs perfectly.

I have contacted TORO with a request for a small credit towards another watch purchase with him but have not received a response in over a week.

I'll try another TD moving forward with future rep purchases.

Caveat Emptor.

wow thanks for the input. thats very interesting its good to know that there are people local (well, CONUS) that will be able to help out if there are issues, i hope you get something for your troubles. at first Toro was going to be the TD i went with based on first look and imm. communication, but more research and more communication with others (such as Ryan) is helping me lean toward others. Along with the expertise of ALE and his short but detailed input above i know i will be able to make the best decision for me as im probably not going to get too deep into the hobby, but i definitely appreciate the game and i will enjoy wearing my PAM!

 

[45acp]

Like you, I did an exhaustive amount of research on the PAMs and specifically chose the 005 for the logo, second hand at 9 and the closed back.

3 weeks ago, I ended buying TORO's V2.5 and was told the movement was upgraded to 21600bph ??

The communication was good and the QC pics were excellent, however, when the watch arrived.....it didn't work. A few emails were not responded to and when I did end up hearing back from him he indicated the movement might have gotten messed up during shipping ???? ....hhhmmm.

Anyhow, I came across a member here MD2020 who is a watchsmith in Chicago and I ended up shipping the watch to him to take a look at.

He diagnosed the watch as having a broken click spring. He replaced the part, overhauled the watch and as of yesterday shipped it back to me confirming it runs perfectly.

I have contacted TORO with a request for a small credit towards another watch purchase with him but have not received a response in over a week.

I'll try another TD moving forward with future rep purchases.

Caveat Emptor.

Toro's handling of your situation is pretty much the standard with TDs, and some don't even live up to that. It's not uncommon for movements to get damaged during shipping, the shipping companies are notoriously rough with packages.

Toro would have replaced or repaired the watch for you, which is pretty much all any Trusted dealer will do. You opted to get it fixed on your own, which is fine and perfectly reasonable, but I don't think you're gonna find a dealer who will give you a credit for a DOA watch when you decide to resolve the situation outside of their normal protocol.

All the dealers have issues from time to time, but what you described is not really one of those times.

 

[MillzbuilT]

The .5 in the "V2.5" I believe refers to the improved square cutout CGs that weren't present on V2 N series noob pams. I say this because I have a V2.5 111N and I remember that at the time the most recent improvement was the CGs, but it was before they added the vintage hands which was designated the V3. Unless there's different standards for be 005, I believe that's the case.

I have a V2 005N from noob and it is pretty much perfect. Any improvements possible would be so small that I probably wouldn't notice them, unless the crystal truly is gen-spec.

that little of change is probably something i wouldnt be too anal about. like i said, im not in it to nit pick and all that i just want one that, to eyes that can tell such as ALE that it gets their approval.

 

[45acp]

that little of change is probably something i wouldnt be too anal about. like i said, im not in it to nit pick and all that i just want one that, to eyes that can tell such as ALE that it gets their approval.

It's not a big deal to me either, just explaining the likely significance of the "V2.5" designation. I doubt Toro is charging any more than his usual premium, which is probably on the higher end of the spectrum (along with Puretime and maybe a few others), but for that extra bit I've found his service to usually be a little better than the cheaper guys. From what I hear Ryan is both cheaper and really easy to deal with, I may give him a Try on my next purchase from China.

 

[Hattrick]

Toro's handling of your situation is pretty much the standard with TDs, and some don't even live up to that. It's not uncommon for movements to get damaged during shipping, the shipping companies are notoriously rough with packages.

Toro would have replaced or repaired the watch for you, which is pretty much all any Trusted dealer will do. You opted to get it fixed on your own, which is fine and perfectly reasonable, but I don't think you're gonna find a dealer who will give you a credit for a DOA watch when you decide to resolve the situation outside of their normal protocol.

All the dealers have issues from time to time, but what you described is not really one of those times.

the watch was double enveloped and triple bubble wrapped. if there was any damage during shipping it was non evident and the watch "looked" absolutely perfect. how the movement could have been negatively affected during shipping without any other evidence of damage is beyond me.... but perhaps you know more than I in this regard.

a $300 watch, rep or not, should work out of the box. given the time and expense to ship the watch back to china and then wait weeks, maybe months for its return wasn't a risk i wanted to incur.

i got the watch diagnosed and properly fixed and back to me in a week for $70 more.

in good faith, a small credit from a TD given this issue seems not only reasonable but proper business regardless of protocol.

 

[ALE7575]

The .5 in the "V2.5" I believe refers to the improved square cutout CGs that weren't present on V2 N series noob pams. I say this because I have a V2.5 111N and I remember that at the time the most recent improvement was the CGs, but it was before they added the vintage hands which was designated the V3. Unless there's different standards for be 005, I believe that's the case.

I have a V2 005N from noob and it is pretty much perfect. Any improvements possible would be so small that I probably wouldn't notice them, unless the crystal truly is gen-spec.

Of course these names are no scientific ones.
These names are chosen by ourselves, the dealers or the makers.

Anyway the versions are different for each watch. As you well say PAM 111 had a lot of sub-versions between V1 and V3. And they were no clear as you can see in several threads about this matter.

PAM 005 didn't have these changes, makers were from old version to the last directly without several steps. Then the last 005 is called V2 and must get included all improvements of PAM 111 V3, and, besides, to have the new movement OPII, like gen, instead of usual Asian6497

I'm afraid that V2,5 is a Toro creation.

ALE

 

[45acp]

the watch was double enveloped and triple bubble wrapped. if there was any damage during shipping it was non evident and the watch "looked" absolutely perfect. how the movement could have been negatively affected during shipping without any other evidence of damage is beyond me.... but perhaps you know more than I in this regard.

a $300 watch, rep or not, should work out of the box. given the time and expense to ship the watch back to china and then wait weeks, maybe months for its return wasn't a risk i wanted to incur.

i got the watch diagnosed and properly fixed and back to me in a week for $70 more.

in good faith, a small credit from a TD given this issue seems not only reasonable but proper business regardless of protocol.

I agree with you, but I'm just saying that what seem to be reasonable business practices to us westerners doesn't always comport with the normal practices of our Chinese counterfeit watch dealers. Additonally, whether the explanation given is honest or not, getting a watch DOA is fairly common. It happens infrequently, especially with better watches and better dealers, but it still happens. Maybe whoever delivered the watch to the shipping agent for him dropped it, maybe he dropped it, maybe it fell off of a China post truck into a 500ft gorge,maybe he never actually function tested it. Who knows?

It sucks, and it's real frustrating to shell out that kind of money to receive a dead watch. You did what most of us would do, which is to get it fixed domestically (price seems a little high, though?) given the inordinate time and expense involved in returning a watch to China. Just saying, he handled it about like I'd expect him to. If you find a dealer that would have given you a credit in this situation, please let me know so I can order from him in the future.

 

[MillzbuilT]

It's not a big deal to me either, just explaining the likely significance of the "V2.5" designation. I doubt Toro is charging any more than his usual premium, which is probably on the higher end of the spectrum (along with Puretime and maybe a few others), but for that extra bit I've found his service to usually be a little better than the cheaper guys. From what I hear Ryan is both cheaper and really easy to deal with, I may give him a Try on my next purchase from China.

Yes i think Ryan might be the road i take...unless you want to sell me yours and save me the int'l trouble :

 

[45acp]

Yes i think Ryan might be the road i take...unless you want to sell me yours and save me the int'l trouble :

Nah, it's a keeper. I think you'll like it!