- 14/1/15
- 46
- 16
- 8
I’ve recently complted my 6538 build and, whilst it is not perfect (it’s far from perfect), I’m happy with the outcome so far. The build specs are:
- Silix base – ROL234 case, movement, ‘rivetted’ bracelet etc
- ‘No markers’ bezel insert (i.e. no minutes marked for first 15 mins on bezel) – supplied by Michelle at Silix instead of the standard bezel insert
- Raffles Time 2-liner gilt dial
- Raffles Time gold hands
- Sternkreuz HwS 30.6mm plexi
- Standard Silix 8mm big crown
Pics below - apologies in advance for sub-optimal quality, I tried with a good quality camera but was getting too much shake so ended up using my iPhone.
I have made some modifications – one or two of which have made a significant (positive) difference, some of which haven’t had the impact I was planning – I’ll list them out below. One or two mods were planned but I couldn’t/didn’t end up doing them. But overall I am pretty happy with the results. The look I was going for was a well cared-for, well-preserved 60-year old watch, so no ‘survived-3-wars’ bashed-up look here. It probably still looks a little too well cared-for for a 60-year old but I am OK with that.
1. Dial. I really like the Gilt Raffles Time dial; I gave it some patina using a can of clear lacquer spray (courtesy of Wilko). I practiced on a cheapie $10 Raffles dial first, spraying vertically down from a height of c. 50-60cm, which gave the dial a myriad of tiny dots of gloss lacquer on top of the base matt Raffles dial. The spray comes out as a fine mist so if you go too far from the dial it will just not reach the dial (I did it outside). The result is an approximation of the aging effects I’ve seen on quite a few gen vintage watches – the dial from a distance appears unblemished, but closer up you can see thousands of imperfections where the dial has undergone the weathering the effects of aging. Regarding the Lume, I did not go for a re-lume (dial or hands) but had intended to apply some additional colour/aging using paints. But either I had the wrong paint or it was too watery, but I couldn’t get the colour right and when I did try painting on the indeces I ended up either completely blocking out e.g. the dots with paint, or I could get nothing on at all. So I ended up leaving the markers pretty much as they were.
2. Hands. I like the Raffles gold-coloured hands too – much better than the standard silver that the watch comes with – but they do look brand-spanking new. So some aging is required. I used a method suggested by Mendota – I saw it on a thread on Homage Forum – where you soak a paper napkin in vinegar, microwave it, remove and add salt to the now-steaming napkin, add your hands standing on some cocktail sticks and cover. The idea is the vinegar steam/salt will start to corrode your watch hands and give you an approximation of decades of oxidation inside your watch (leave in the salt&vinegar steam treatment overnight). I tried this and it definitely has an effect – the result I got was a fine spider-trail of corrosion over the surface of the hands. However if I am being totally honest it was not quite as effective as I had hoped – I ended up doing it a couple of times. The result was that it looks like – to me, at any rate – a spider-trail of very fine corrosion over still very shiny new-looking hands. So if I were to do this again I would probably give the hands a going over with a fine sandpaper first to get rid of the surface gloss, and THEN I’d do the salt & vinegar treatment. This should get rid of the newness and shininess, and the salt & vinegar treatment will give some genuine corrosion. I was wary not to do the sandpapering on the hands originally because I was concerned that the scratches you can get on the hands can look somewhat artificial and out of place – but I think in hind sight that the salt & vinegar treatment post-sanding would mask this well. I also painted the seconds hand white (found that quite tricky…) – and ended up having to do some sanding work on the underside of the seconds hand once it had dried as the hand was catching on the minute hand – I probably over-did it on the paint.
3. Case. I used the standard Bonesey ‘box of fun’ method to give the case and case-back a few dings and scratches. However I didn’t go over-the-top with this, primarily because I was not able to remove the bezel assembly, so I had the bezel plastered in masking tape to protect it and had to regularly check on progress to make sure I wasn’t damaging the bezel. So the results were mixed – I got a few minor dings on the case itself, but not that much really. The case back however is quite nicely scratched up and looks like it has indeed lived a 50-60 year life of wear. The other thing I did was to take some of the sharpness off the edges of the case as it felt very new and non-vintage. I don’t have any power tools for this sort of thing so used some fine sandpaper and also some ‘Autosol’ paste which I had in the house. Autosol is an automotive product designed to polish chrome and other bits of shiny metal on classic cars/bikes. I don’t know what’s in it but it certainly seems capable of softening some of the edges on the case and was also good for polishing off scratches.
4. Bezel insert (and bezel). I didn’t want to go overboard on the insert so dunked it in some bleach for about 35 seconds – enough to take the shine off but not so much that it started to become ghost-like. I also gave some minor sandpapering to the outside – but not wanting to put scratches on it I was pretty tame on this so this did not really come out once it was re-attached to the bezel. Re. the bezel itself, as per above I was not able to remove the bezel. I am pretty sure I would have been able to force it off – there is plenty of upwards movement on the bezel, it does feel quite flimsy – but I was never able to see the retaining spring inside so did not want to force it and either break the bezel or bend it irretrievably. So I chickened out and left it as it was. This is a shame as I had read a great tutorial by Kime on Homage Forum on a 6200 project where he used a blow torch to create the brassy-gold effect which so many older Sub bezels end up with. I don’t have a blow torch but was planning on experimenting with the gas rings on my oven to see if I could achieve the same effect – but you need to be able to remove the bezel first! So that was one mod which didn’t happen.
5. Plexi. The crystal as standard fitted by Silix is too tall and makes up a significant proportion of the height of the watch. This is probably at least in part because the bezel is really too short compared to gen so it makes the crystal look out of proportion. One solution is to remove the standard plexi and shave it down a milimetre or two, but as I have next to no equipment I decided that the replacement option was the best. As it turned out, the original plexi was rather well fitted so when I finally managed to push it out, it broke leaving some of the crystal still glued into the case rehaut, so I would have had to replace it in any case. If I do this again I’ll try softening the cement by applying some heat from e.g. a hairdryer so hopefully it will pop out a little more easily and without breaking. Regarding the Sternkreuz replacement, a couple of points: 1. I possibly don’t have the right crystal but it is realistically a little too short. It fits perfectly in the case – very tight but I think it is the right size – but the ‘vertical wall’ of the crystal does not quite reach above the top of the bezel before it starts its curve, if that makes sense, so there is a slight gap between the inside edge of the bezel insert and the plexi. I’m OK with this – at the moment – but may at a later stage replace it with an alternative if there is a better option (preferably one not involving shaving the bezel down). 2. I probably used too much cement – or put the dots in the wrong place – because I can see smears of cement between the rehaut and the plexi – the casual observer won’t notice, but I know they are there and it doesn’t look perfect. Again, not the end of the world, I can live with it, but I’ll have to do something different next time (if there is a next time).
6. Crown. I’ve kept the standard Silix Brevet 8mm big crown. For now this is a compromise I am willing to accept but possibly at a later stage I will go the Athaya v. 2 route – this would definitely be my preference. However I do not have the hardware to install this myself so is not a priority at the moment, excellent though it no doubt is. Juancado has also recommended a Raffles replacement as a much better alternative to the standard Silix - and it fits straight onto the Silix tube - so I will also take a look at that but my feeling is at the moment that if I do change crowns it will be for the Athaya (and I probably won’t change crowns twice). I’ve applied silicone grease ot the inside of the crown and tube (also the case gasket) to try and improve water resistance.
7. Strap & bracelet. I haven’t done anything to the bracelet yet; I had wanted the bracelet where the Rolex crown forms the semi-circular clasp, however Michelle at Silix said this was not available from the factory, so I have a more standard (and I presume non gen-like) modern-looking straight clasp on the bracelet. If anyone knows where I can get a replacement (without getting the whole bracelet) I’d be interested to know so I can swap it out.
8. Spring-bars. I’ve got 1.8mm spring-bars – I think a bag of 20 were 95p from Cousins UK, something like that. I know gen-spec is 2mm – they were out of stock when I ordered mine – but (as above) I don’t have the kit to drill out the lug holes so 1.8mm is the closest I will get for the moment (and the 1.8mm ones look chunky enough to my eyes).
9. Movement. Movement is – I believe – the DG2813. I’m quite impressed so far. It is not incredibly accurate, but neither does it have wild swings in accuracy during the day so it should be possible to get it a little more accurate using the regulator. It was c. 30 seconds per day fast on receipt – not great I know – but this does not seem to change massively if I leave it face-up overnight, so I am hoping to make a couple of minor adjustments to the regulator arm to get it a little closer to the 2-3 seconds +/- of a chronometer (and I’ll be happy with 10-15 seconds as I’m not going to wear it all the time). I’ve already had a go and improved it to c. 25 seconds per day fast with a very minor regulator adjustment. If I leave it face down at night it loses quite a bit so it compensates – sort of – for the day-time gain; but I think it’s worth having a crack at getting it a little more accurate than having to put it upside down to get the right time.
Final couple of points. There is some debate on these pages re the divergence from correct gen size for these no crown guard models. From my understanding, 37mm excluding crown is the gen size across the case (some of the gen watches on the Internet plus in auction house sales catalogues also are given as 38mm). And the Silix models and alternatives such as Helenarou are known to be non-gen in size as they are c. 40mm. So when I was in communication with Michelle at Silix re the options (case-set only, ROL245, ROL246) I asked what is the closest he sells to 38mm and he replied that ROL234 is about 38.5mm – so that’s what I ordered from him – the others are 39mm – 39.5mm. I don’t have calipers but I did measure the case with a tape-measure when I got it and I reckoned it was about 38mm – could be a bit more, possibly a bit less even as I was measuring it by sight. The downside of this is that, whilst the case itself is (quite) close to gen size, the bezel is presumably the stock bezel the factories use for these models and there is therefore a small overhang over the edge. It is small, probably not much more than 0.5mm, and only noticeable at the 9 o’clock side of the watch but it is there – another compromise which I can live with for a $98 watch, given there is plenty more about the bezel which is non gen-like. The dial is – again I presume – the standard Silix dial – I didn’t measure it but if the normal ones are 29mm then this must be too, and the Raffles dial is a straight switch in – so presumably these are non-gen sized as the gen is c. 27mm I think.
I am still having nightmares about losing movement tab screws whilst replacing the movement, so I will probably not be doing much more which will involve removing the movement again any time soon. That said, I am pretty happy with the overall result and I think it looks a great watch for what I have paid for it.
Final point – thanks to all the members who provided such invaluable guidance and advice during the build and in particular to Bonesey and Davylloyd whose tutorials were an inspiration.
- Silix base – ROL234 case, movement, ‘rivetted’ bracelet etc
- ‘No markers’ bezel insert (i.e. no minutes marked for first 15 mins on bezel) – supplied by Michelle at Silix instead of the standard bezel insert
- Raffles Time 2-liner gilt dial
- Raffles Time gold hands
- Sternkreuz HwS 30.6mm plexi
- Standard Silix 8mm big crown
Pics below - apologies in advance for sub-optimal quality, I tried with a good quality camera but was getting too much shake so ended up using my iPhone.
I have made some modifications – one or two of which have made a significant (positive) difference, some of which haven’t had the impact I was planning – I’ll list them out below. One or two mods were planned but I couldn’t/didn’t end up doing them. But overall I am pretty happy with the results. The look I was going for was a well cared-for, well-preserved 60-year old watch, so no ‘survived-3-wars’ bashed-up look here. It probably still looks a little too well cared-for for a 60-year old but I am OK with that.
1. Dial. I really like the Gilt Raffles Time dial; I gave it some patina using a can of clear lacquer spray (courtesy of Wilko). I practiced on a cheapie $10 Raffles dial first, spraying vertically down from a height of c. 50-60cm, which gave the dial a myriad of tiny dots of gloss lacquer on top of the base matt Raffles dial. The spray comes out as a fine mist so if you go too far from the dial it will just not reach the dial (I did it outside). The result is an approximation of the aging effects I’ve seen on quite a few gen vintage watches – the dial from a distance appears unblemished, but closer up you can see thousands of imperfections where the dial has undergone the weathering the effects of aging. Regarding the Lume, I did not go for a re-lume (dial or hands) but had intended to apply some additional colour/aging using paints. But either I had the wrong paint or it was too watery, but I couldn’t get the colour right and when I did try painting on the indeces I ended up either completely blocking out e.g. the dots with paint, or I could get nothing on at all. So I ended up leaving the markers pretty much as they were.
2. Hands. I like the Raffles gold-coloured hands too – much better than the standard silver that the watch comes with – but they do look brand-spanking new. So some aging is required. I used a method suggested by Mendota – I saw it on a thread on Homage Forum – where you soak a paper napkin in vinegar, microwave it, remove and add salt to the now-steaming napkin, add your hands standing on some cocktail sticks and cover. The idea is the vinegar steam/salt will start to corrode your watch hands and give you an approximation of decades of oxidation inside your watch (leave in the salt&vinegar steam treatment overnight). I tried this and it definitely has an effect – the result I got was a fine spider-trail of corrosion over the surface of the hands. However if I am being totally honest it was not quite as effective as I had hoped – I ended up doing it a couple of times. The result was that it looks like – to me, at any rate – a spider-trail of very fine corrosion over still very shiny new-looking hands. So if I were to do this again I would probably give the hands a going over with a fine sandpaper first to get rid of the surface gloss, and THEN I’d do the salt & vinegar treatment. This should get rid of the newness and shininess, and the salt & vinegar treatment will give some genuine corrosion. I was wary not to do the sandpapering on the hands originally because I was concerned that the scratches you can get on the hands can look somewhat artificial and out of place – but I think in hind sight that the salt & vinegar treatment post-sanding would mask this well. I also painted the seconds hand white (found that quite tricky…) – and ended up having to do some sanding work on the underside of the seconds hand once it had dried as the hand was catching on the minute hand – I probably over-did it on the paint.
3. Case. I used the standard Bonesey ‘box of fun’ method to give the case and case-back a few dings and scratches. However I didn’t go over-the-top with this, primarily because I was not able to remove the bezel assembly, so I had the bezel plastered in masking tape to protect it and had to regularly check on progress to make sure I wasn’t damaging the bezel. So the results were mixed – I got a few minor dings on the case itself, but not that much really. The case back however is quite nicely scratched up and looks like it has indeed lived a 50-60 year life of wear. The other thing I did was to take some of the sharpness off the edges of the case as it felt very new and non-vintage. I don’t have any power tools for this sort of thing so used some fine sandpaper and also some ‘Autosol’ paste which I had in the house. Autosol is an automotive product designed to polish chrome and other bits of shiny metal on classic cars/bikes. I don’t know what’s in it but it certainly seems capable of softening some of the edges on the case and was also good for polishing off scratches.
4. Bezel insert (and bezel). I didn’t want to go overboard on the insert so dunked it in some bleach for about 35 seconds – enough to take the shine off but not so much that it started to become ghost-like. I also gave some minor sandpapering to the outside – but not wanting to put scratches on it I was pretty tame on this so this did not really come out once it was re-attached to the bezel. Re. the bezel itself, as per above I was not able to remove the bezel. I am pretty sure I would have been able to force it off – there is plenty of upwards movement on the bezel, it does feel quite flimsy – but I was never able to see the retaining spring inside so did not want to force it and either break the bezel or bend it irretrievably. So I chickened out and left it as it was. This is a shame as I had read a great tutorial by Kime on Homage Forum on a 6200 project where he used a blow torch to create the brassy-gold effect which so many older Sub bezels end up with. I don’t have a blow torch but was planning on experimenting with the gas rings on my oven to see if I could achieve the same effect – but you need to be able to remove the bezel first! So that was one mod which didn’t happen.
5. Plexi. The crystal as standard fitted by Silix is too tall and makes up a significant proportion of the height of the watch. This is probably at least in part because the bezel is really too short compared to gen so it makes the crystal look out of proportion. One solution is to remove the standard plexi and shave it down a milimetre or two, but as I have next to no equipment I decided that the replacement option was the best. As it turned out, the original plexi was rather well fitted so when I finally managed to push it out, it broke leaving some of the crystal still glued into the case rehaut, so I would have had to replace it in any case. If I do this again I’ll try softening the cement by applying some heat from e.g. a hairdryer so hopefully it will pop out a little more easily and without breaking. Regarding the Sternkreuz replacement, a couple of points: 1. I possibly don’t have the right crystal but it is realistically a little too short. It fits perfectly in the case – very tight but I think it is the right size – but the ‘vertical wall’ of the crystal does not quite reach above the top of the bezel before it starts its curve, if that makes sense, so there is a slight gap between the inside edge of the bezel insert and the plexi. I’m OK with this – at the moment – but may at a later stage replace it with an alternative if there is a better option (preferably one not involving shaving the bezel down). 2. I probably used too much cement – or put the dots in the wrong place – because I can see smears of cement between the rehaut and the plexi – the casual observer won’t notice, but I know they are there and it doesn’t look perfect. Again, not the end of the world, I can live with it, but I’ll have to do something different next time (if there is a next time).
6. Crown. I’ve kept the standard Silix Brevet 8mm big crown. For now this is a compromise I am willing to accept but possibly at a later stage I will go the Athaya v. 2 route – this would definitely be my preference. However I do not have the hardware to install this myself so is not a priority at the moment, excellent though it no doubt is. Juancado has also recommended a Raffles replacement as a much better alternative to the standard Silix - and it fits straight onto the Silix tube - so I will also take a look at that but my feeling is at the moment that if I do change crowns it will be for the Athaya (and I probably won’t change crowns twice). I’ve applied silicone grease ot the inside of the crown and tube (also the case gasket) to try and improve water resistance.
7. Strap & bracelet. I haven’t done anything to the bracelet yet; I had wanted the bracelet where the Rolex crown forms the semi-circular clasp, however Michelle at Silix said this was not available from the factory, so I have a more standard (and I presume non gen-like) modern-looking straight clasp on the bracelet. If anyone knows where I can get a replacement (without getting the whole bracelet) I’d be interested to know so I can swap it out.
8. Spring-bars. I’ve got 1.8mm spring-bars – I think a bag of 20 were 95p from Cousins UK, something like that. I know gen-spec is 2mm – they were out of stock when I ordered mine – but (as above) I don’t have the kit to drill out the lug holes so 1.8mm is the closest I will get for the moment (and the 1.8mm ones look chunky enough to my eyes).
9. Movement. Movement is – I believe – the DG2813. I’m quite impressed so far. It is not incredibly accurate, but neither does it have wild swings in accuracy during the day so it should be possible to get it a little more accurate using the regulator. It was c. 30 seconds per day fast on receipt – not great I know – but this does not seem to change massively if I leave it face-up overnight, so I am hoping to make a couple of minor adjustments to the regulator arm to get it a little closer to the 2-3 seconds +/- of a chronometer (and I’ll be happy with 10-15 seconds as I’m not going to wear it all the time). I’ve already had a go and improved it to c. 25 seconds per day fast with a very minor regulator adjustment. If I leave it face down at night it loses quite a bit so it compensates – sort of – for the day-time gain; but I think it’s worth having a crack at getting it a little more accurate than having to put it upside down to get the right time.
Final couple of points. There is some debate on these pages re the divergence from correct gen size for these no crown guard models. From my understanding, 37mm excluding crown is the gen size across the case (some of the gen watches on the Internet plus in auction house sales catalogues also are given as 38mm). And the Silix models and alternatives such as Helenarou are known to be non-gen in size as they are c. 40mm. So when I was in communication with Michelle at Silix re the options (case-set only, ROL245, ROL246) I asked what is the closest he sells to 38mm and he replied that ROL234 is about 38.5mm – so that’s what I ordered from him – the others are 39mm – 39.5mm. I don’t have calipers but I did measure the case with a tape-measure when I got it and I reckoned it was about 38mm – could be a bit more, possibly a bit less even as I was measuring it by sight. The downside of this is that, whilst the case itself is (quite) close to gen size, the bezel is presumably the stock bezel the factories use for these models and there is therefore a small overhang over the edge. It is small, probably not much more than 0.5mm, and only noticeable at the 9 o’clock side of the watch but it is there – another compromise which I can live with for a $98 watch, given there is plenty more about the bezel which is non gen-like. The dial is – again I presume – the standard Silix dial – I didn’t measure it but if the normal ones are 29mm then this must be too, and the Raffles dial is a straight switch in – so presumably these are non-gen sized as the gen is c. 27mm I think.
I am still having nightmares about losing movement tab screws whilst replacing the movement, so I will probably not be doing much more which will involve removing the movement again any time soon. That said, I am pretty happy with the overall result and I think it looks a great watch for what I have paid for it.
Final point – thanks to all the members who provided such invaluable guidance and advice during the build and in particular to Bonesey and Davylloyd whose tutorials were an inspiration.
