To those that own GEN's, why?

[en002k]

Daily struggle haha but here's why for me. I own the GEN that has the most accurate copy, 124060 VSF Sub, and the CF version of the same sub. I actually made a post on reddit comparing the 3, and have been following the really big 124060 comparison here.

The watch is a daily of mine, and at the same time wanted to wear a version I would wear when I travel and not worry, "beater" more or less. God forbid if something happened to me, the GEN would still be home.

If you want just the pure aesthetic reasons of owning a watch, then Reps are great. Owning a GEN for me was a standard of a goal, an heirloom I can pass down to my son, and essentially a great everyday watch (pay for the insurance!). I think to me it's the story behind it that creates the importance to me.

Thoughts?

 

[Reaps]

Gen is gen, rep is rep.

1. Rep is super close but there are subtle nuances that will never be achieved by rep. In the 124060 case, case shape, white gold markers, bezel platinum input, etc
2. Rep still don't have movement accuracy and reliability down, let's be real here. Aesthetically yes, but the Superlative Chronometer Rolex accuracy and toughness will trump any rep movement. Maybe not a bother to some and some will question if the $10,000 extra is worth the +2s/day accuracy or whatever but still a point.
3. While rep resale value isn't half bad, gen resale is much easier and less hassle. I hate the idea of watches as investment but in Rolex and other certain watches you can wear it for 20 years, and not lose any money wearing it. Of course rep is cheap and easy to replace but yeah. Sometimes you end up with a $500 paperweight replica.
4. You also caught a point that many people buy gen as a celebration and as a heirloom to remeber a memory or a person or event by. Maybe some of us are nolstagic about this stuff, some of us aren't.

And while in your example, you have a Stainless Steel Rolex Submariner, imho the reps of these are super super close to gen aesthetically so I can see why you pose this question. But let's take a Grand Seiko Spring Drive or a Omega Moonwatch, or even stuff like a FC Perpetual Calender, Christopher Ward "Chiming" Watch. There are just some movements/watches that rep can't provide the same experience.

One thing I find quite boring about replicas is the lack of variety. I mean Chinese Homages, while maybe a little lacking in branding offer a wide variety and experience of watches you can't find with replicas. That's another fun point of "gen" watches. Maybe not the best value sometimes compared to replicas, but you can find loads of fun watches and designs.

Check out this Thorn "Polerouter/UG" homage. I mean rep isn't gonna make stuff like this.

 

[peterpl]

I've gone through this many many times.

In the end Gen is gen and my mind and my inner self always will know. There is no amount of pretending or convincing to myself that a rep is as good as a gen nor does it provide the inner feeling of some kind of reward for an milestone in life or accomplishment. The feeling of celebrating a major milestone in life with a gen Rolex is something very satisfying to myself anyway.

In saying that these reps esp the super reps like the current Clean Daytona or VSF subs are so close it allows me to try the watch first and if I'm absolutely in love I'll still buy the gen.

Also I love love gold watches. YG and RG I love them both and reps are never as good. I've never been satisfied with the colour of any rep gold watch ever. They are not the same.

Reps to me provide a cheapish way to enjoy a watch that in reality is outside of my budget, or I would not buy in gen form. They both have their place in my collection.

For instance I'd never rock a rep YG/RG DD40 for instance so I bought 2 gens. But I would rock a VSF 126610LN or a Clean Daytona anyday of the week. Thats just me.

 

[Karbon74]

I have been eyeing that Thorn

Also I agree. I just bought a VSF 126610LN.
The watch is fine but I got no excitement out of it. I will probably wear it a few months and resell it at a discount. We will see.

Now I wonder that if I dish out the price for a gen Sub, that I will be disappointed though I will not have « lost » any money due to resell value.

On the other hand, I enjoy wearing my own vintage builds.

To add to the confusion, I barely wear my Cartier gen anymore, but the BTF Panda is a regular (that did give me some excitement)

 

[Karbon74]

Also I love love gold watches. YG and RG I love them both and reps are never as good. I've never been satisfied with the colour of any rep gold watch ever. They are not the same.

A gen full gold DD might indeed be something for me, but again I know I won’t wear it that much

 

[Reaps]

I have been eyeing that Thorn

Also I agree. I just bought a VSF 126610LN.
The watch is fine but I got no excitement out of it. I will probably wear it a few months and resell it at a discount. We will see.

Now I wonder that if I dish out the price for a gen Sub, that I will be disappointed though I will not have « lost » any money due to resell value.

On the other hand, I enjoy wearing my own vintage builds.

To add to the confusion, I barely wear my Cartier gen anymore, but the BTF Panda is a regular (that did give me some excitement)

That Thorn... idk what it is. It's kinda ugly but in a charming retro aesthetic. I wish it used a VH31 or something thinner and cheaper. A $180 homage of a niche watch is kinda hard to justify pricing on

 

[Kerbus]

It’s a big psychological things, akin to lab diamonds and natural diamonds, somewhat…

I do like the idea of having a big box of watches almost filled mostly with reps,but scattered with some gens or my Franken For those who care that I’ll show in person, I will challenge them to identify the gens. Only people interested enough in studying watches can identify the gens right away.

 

[RDRoss]

Generally speaking I have come to the point where I just don’t care. I wear what I feel on the day and that is that. Of my current collection 18 gens, mostly Tudor, Rolex and omega, with a couple of others tossed in (Eterna Kontiki and super Kontiki, GS and KS seiko models, a really nice moon phase I built years ago and a nifty olympics 7732 chronograph). I also have another 20 or so reps which I enjoy wearing. To be fair a good number of them have become box queens but the same can be said about my gens as well.

In the end, I buy what I like. I can say that reps are a horrible gateway drug to the purchase of more gens (I’m looking at you ZF and your bloody good quality Tudors).

 

[RDRoss]

@Karbon74 , you may find that the 1803 offers good value and wearability if you want to give a DD a chance. I wore mine on a strap and found it less flashy and way more comfortable. Not to mention that the price tag is still approachable.

 

[Kerbus]

I can identify with box queens, not really my watches, but my cars, garage queens. My daily driver is an older Honda and people don’t understand why I don’t take out nicer cars if I have them, I just detail them and thats how I enjoy them. When it comes to watches, I actually wear most of mine pretty consistently

 

[starlantic]

Reps get worn out and about in case one of these low IQ, lack-of-impulse-control animals decides he wants to attack me over a watch.

Gens get worn to civilized engagements and environments where refined people like me congregate and are of high enough IQ to understand who the correct owner of personal property is.

Or I'm just having a harder time, even though the quality on gens is undeniable, justifying spending 10K on a watch as opposed to $750 and investing the other $9K due to very minimal differences that only I'm aware of.

 

[Kerbus]

Yep, invest the real money and spend only on what you love most. I’ll always have reps no matter how many gens I may have too, I do love that idea of wearing a different watch every day and having plenty of money to make multiply

 

[asayamalaka]

Owning the gen is that final step in the diminishing returns of qualityrice ratio. I find reps to be a great way to try out a watch and test it out over time, without the financial burden of buying the gen. All the pictures, videos, and in-person fondling at an AD can only take me so far. It has to be worn for some time to see if it really clicks.

Personally, I'm an IWC whore, and although the reps get alarmingly close to the gens, they're definitely not 100%. I feel like my ZF Tudor BB58 is "close enough" and NWBIG, although one day I certainly will own the gen. But as I continue to wear my IWC reps (that are incredibly amazing), I do notice the difference, and am willing to pay (literally) 10x the price for that last 15% boost in aesthetic and mechanical purity.

There's just that "presence" of quality and refinement that's inherently embodied in a gen that reps can't do. Appreciating and recognizing that difference is a blessing and a curse.

 

[TerryRobot]

Good arguments all round and I get it too, The reps are all really very good these days and as much as we all pick minor faults in them against the gen we are a select few who pay any notice and then there are few who need to know because its part of their trade and the rest that might know some minor differences only do so, to "call out" that dude in the bar being Mr big bollocks.

As far as watches go the Reps are for all intents and purposes good watches in their own rights and many are re labelled and sold as Pagani or the likes as legitimate homage brands and its those same watches that are customized for the reps, in all fairness Im sure the Parnis and Pagani watches are only for sale as it legitimate "homage" brands for factories to "hold stock of basic parts until the lazer etchers get to work.

The 2 distinct differences between a Rep and Gen is one has value the other as good as it is, is still just a copy with no real value outside of our community. That is fine if all you want it for is the look.

A gen has value and as such means more to the buyer as they had to blow a whole wad of cash on it often more than some peoples cars in the process. This means it has more than just the cash value its been attained. We could all run over the line at finish of a marathon but if we only just jumped out of the bushes towards the end when really we drove round its cheating ourselves as well as others.

Gens are pricey for sure but only certain brands Breitling and Omega are all not so hard to buy second and and nor are Rollies (just the last 10 years has been crazy) but its leveling back out.

I dont see the point in owning a gen just to have it in a safe an not wear it, it defeats the purpose of it. if its speculative for investment sure it will in crease a bit and is unlikely to drop all that much but you be better off buying a 15-20yr old cool in its day car in good condition and then holding onto that as it will increase way more and cost far less, think the likes of a 1985 VW Golf GTI, or a 1980's Mercedes SL if you bought them when they hit about 15 yrs old they are cheap as they are not vintage yet and are just old an cost too much to run, but if you grab them and look after it they creep up form the £3000 you paid to £12000 in a few years as they start to become retro cool.

Owing a gen puts you in an exclusive club and you can always sell it if you need too, it allows you to wear it not care if someone thinks its a rep cos you know it isnt!

Reps are great as a tester for a gen or just for a model you wouldn't really wanna spend a huge amount on if you are not sure.

Here is another thought though Frankens are often really very good and some very expensive but are they worth that kind of money in reality when they are still a rep, sure the sum of all those gen parts fitted is wear the cost comes from but you still cant sell it to a dealer for anything, they might give you something and part it out perhaps but unlikley, the only places a super franken or genstein has value is within the rep community it cant be insured either for that matter. I get frankens that do the dial, bezel and crystal as these are all very visual but many reps this is a hard tell unless under a loupe

So why does anyone pay 5k or more for a rep that whilst it looks gen is still not gen? That money would be better put towards a gen in the future.

Here's something we are all guilty off and is a terrible thought but!!!! Just think how much money we have all spent on various reps over the years that have failed and we just buy another and then just kept buying different ones if you add all of that up and add on some interest after being invested a gen would be an easy purchase!

Still its more of a hobby for a lot of us and at the same time almost getting one over on the big brands at the same time!

To be honest its far easier to get a rep than it is some gens these days anyway perhaps my white dial daytona will be in my AD any moment soon!

 

[cjt202020]

Purely a morbid reason. Imagine a loved one sorting through your splendid collection of watches (after you die) only to be told by the experts they are just a bunch Chinese knock offs, worth nothing. Such a disappointment for them. One or two gens in the mix would perhaps temper their disappointment

 

[Karbon74]

The fact of the matter.
Why choose?
With the price of reps you can have both.

 

[en002k]

Gen is gen, rep is rep.

1. Rep is super close but there are subtle nuances that will never be achieved by rep. In the 124060 case, case shape, white gold markers, bezel platinum input, etc
2. Rep still don't have movement accuracy and reliability down, let's be real here. Aesthetically yes, but the Superlative Chronometer Rolex accuracy and toughness will trump any rep movement. Maybe not a bother to some and some will question if the $10,000 extra is worth the +2s/day accuracy or whatever but still a point.
3. While rep resale value isn't half bad, gen resale is much easier and less hassle. I hate the idea of watches as investment but in Rolex and other certain watches you can wear it for 20 years, and not lose any money wearing it. Of course rep is cheap and easy to replace but yeah. Sometimes you end up with a $500 paperweight replica.
4. You also caught a point that many people buy gen as a celebration and as a heirloom to remeber a memory or a person or event by. Maybe some of us are nolstagic about this stuff, some of us aren't.

And while in your example, you have a Stainless Steel Rolex Submariner, imho the reps of these are super super close to gen aesthetically so I can see why you pose this question. But let's take a Grand Seiko Spring Drive or a Omega Moonwatch, or even stuff like a FC Perpetual Calender, Christopher Ward "Chiming" Watch. There are just some movements/watches that rep can't provide the same experience.

One thing I find quite boring about replicas is the lack of variety. I mean Chinese Homages, while maybe a little lacking in branding offer a wide variety and experience of watches you can't find with replicas. That's another fun point of "gen" watches. Maybe not the best value sometimes compared to replicas, but you can find loads of fun watches and designs.

Check out this Thorn "Polerouter/UG" homage. I mean rep isn't gonna make stuff like this.

Really great points here, thanks for sharing

 

[en002k]

I can identify with box queens, not really my watches, but my cars, garage queens. My daily driver is an older Honda and people don’t understand why I don’t take out nicer cars if I have them, I just detail them and thats how I enjoy them. When it comes to watches, I actually wear most of mine pretty consistently

Lol same with me.

Good arguments all round and I get it too, The reps are all really very good these days and as much as we all pick minor faults in them against the gen we are a select few who pay any notice and then there are few who need to know because its part of their trade and the rest that might know some minor differences only do so, to "call out" that dude in the bar being Mr big bollocks.

As far as watches go the Reps are for all intents and purposes good watches in their own rights and many are re labelled and sold as Pagani or the likes as legitimate homage brands and its those same watches that are customized for the reps, in all fairness Im sure the Parnis and Pagani watches are only for sale as it legitimate "homage" brands for factories to "hold stock of basic parts until the lazer etchers get to work.

The 2 distinct differences between a Rep and Gen is one has value the other as good as it is, is still just a copy with no real value outside of our community. That is fine if all you want it for is the look.

A gen has value and as such means more to the buyer as they had to blow a whole wad of cash on it often more than some peoples cars in the process. This means it has more than just the cash value its been attained. We could all run over the line at finish of a marathon but if we only just jumped out of the bushes towards the end when really we drove round its cheating ourselves as well as others.

Gens are pricey for sure but only certain brands Breitling and Omega are all not so hard to buy second and and nor are Rollies (just the last 10 years has been crazy) but its leveling back out.

I dont see the point in owning a gen just to have it in a safe an not wear it, it defeats the purpose of it. if its speculative for investment sure it will in crease a bit and is unlikely to drop all that much but you be better off buying a 15-20yr old cool in its day car in good condition and then holding onto that as it will increase way more and cost far less, think the likes of a 1985 VW Golf GTI, or a 1980's Mercedes SL if you bought them when they hit about 15 yrs old they are cheap as they are not vintage yet and are just old an cost too much to run, but if you grab them and look after it they creep up form the £3000 you paid to £12000 in a few years as they start to become retro cool.

Owing a gen puts you in an exclusive club and you can always sell it if you need too, it allows you to wear it not care if someone thinks its a rep cos you know it isnt!

Reps are great as a tester for a gen or just for a model you wouldn't really wanna spend a huge amount on if you are not sure.

Here is another thought though Frankens are often really very good and some very expensive but are they worth that kind of money in reality when they are still a rep, sure the sum of all those gen parts fitted is wear the cost comes from but you still cant sell it to a dealer for anything, they might give you something and part it out perhaps but unlikley, the only places a super franken or genstein has value is within the rep community it cant be insured either for that matter. I get frankens that do the dial, bezel and crystal as these are all very visual but many reps this is a hard tell unless under a loupe

So why does anyone pay 5k or more for a rep that whilst it looks gen is still not gen? That money would be better put towards a gen in the future.

Here's something we are all guilty off and is a terrible thought but!!!! Just think how much money we have all spent on various reps over the years that have failed and we just buy another and then just kept buying different ones if you add all of that up and add on some interest after being invested a gen would be an easy purchase!

Still its more of a hobby for a lot of us and at the same time almost getting one over on the big brands at the same time!

To be honest its far easier to get a rep than it is some gens these days anyway perhaps my white dial daytona will be in my AD any moment soon!

Really great take on this subject.

 

[SJS101]

Many, many years ago I spent some cash I didn't have on a watch I THOUGHT I would love. Got it in hand and I just did not connect at all with it like I thought. I wish it would have been a watch I could have seen in the metal first. Fast forward a few decades and stumbling into the rep world afforded me the chance to try before I buy to get a good feel for what I would potentially spend my money on. It's the perfect chance to see how you bond with a watch. The two that I bonded with over all the reps I've tried I either purchased gen or purchased such an amazing Super Franken version that it was practically gen. So for me, it's a chance to have an affordable hobby and a chance to try before you buy!

 

[DonkeyHoTay]

I bought almost 2 dozen reps before deciding on my favorites and then I bought the Gen 126613LB thanks to the rep test drive. I expect I will buy a Gen Daytona next, and it will be thanks to the excellent rep sitting in the case. Then, I will wear the reps all the time and wear the Gens on special occasions only since they are intended to be heirlooms.