The asian 2836 clone, that isn't!

[Uk Watch services]

I dont know if this is common or knowledge or not and Im not an expert on all the movements etc they use in reps but i have had a couple of watches recently that the customer has been told are Asian 2836 clones. Instead they are some sort of chinese movement that look a bit like them but are in fact some inferior crappy movement and not actually anything like the design of the 2836. Incidentally the 2 watches that I have seen them in have both been Breitling SOSF's.

Watchmakers on here must have noticed this so im sure im not bringing up anything new but both my customers were unaware of this, in fairness I wouldnt be surprised if the dealers even thought it was Asian 2836.

I havent measured it yet but I know the dial feet positioning is the same as 2836 and the movement may well be the same size so a 2836 can directly be swapped in if desired providing the hands fit, im guessing this movement is a lot cheaper than the 2836 clone which is why there doing this.

If anyone is interested I will post pictures of what im talking about with the differences etc, I just wanted to make people aware if they wernt already about what they might be buying.

Cheers!

 

[set2374]

If anyone is interested I will post pictures of what im talking about with the differences etc, I just wanted to make people aware if they wernt already about what they might be buying.

Cheers!

Dude, of course you should post pictures otherwise we have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[Uk Watch services]

No probs Ill get pics next time im at my workshop in a couple days

 

[Luthier]

Is there ETA stamp?
Sure, pics would be very helpful.

 

[watchman12345]

I assume it's the high beat "21J" that is in the cartel sub?

 

[Hazz37]

lookin forward to seeing more.
Good man for pointing out the fact that our TD's would be unaware of this, I have had one SOSF the very same.

 

[cwazy1]

yeah its most likely the new 'high beat 21J'..

Its the movement that instead of having little levers that secure the dial feet, it has screws. That is the easiest tell.

 

[kambeix]

http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php?t=141721

In that post there's information about that movement.

One thing is for sure: It's not an asian 2836 clone, so TD's shouldn't sell it with that name, and it should also be cheaper.

 

[Uk Watch services]

The new hi beat is a good call, hadnt had one in yet but done a bit of digging and I believe thats what it is now, this is a very good thread on it actually http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/new-high-beat-143241p5

Ive got some pics anyway just so you can see it,

First of all the watch on the timing machine, running well. This is unserviced. When I first put it on amplitude was around 325, this is too high really and banking starts to become a concern here.



Back off the watch, theres no denying its similar looking to the 28xx series. Closer inspection does reveal differences though, such as the click works off the ratchet wheel, auto assembly whilst looks and works similar it has no lower bridge and instead uses the train bridge for the jewels for the lower pivots of its wheels. The other obvious one as someone said is the dial is held in place by the screws like 2892, 2836 should be the clips.



Dial and hands removed, no real similarities to 2836. Not as good in my opinion, this watch has an issue with the quick date, from what I can see there is nothing broken - it just isnt working particularly well.



Date maintaining plate removed and you can see the keyless here, notice a screw head had snapped off, leaving a stump in its place. Luckily it was loose and I was able to remove it, would have been a bit of a head ache otherwise.



These were just the pictures I got before stopping, I have no plans to fully service this watch. I dont believe the date change issue will be fixed from the service and is more likely due to poor quality of the movement, im not going to charge for a full service when I dont think it will be fully operational at the end.

The main reason for my post is the fact this was sold as a 2836 clone - that it clearly is not. I dont know how many watches this might be in or whether that is something they are going to start doing more and more but certainly something to be aware of when buying.

 

[ShiroTenshi]

This is getting even more shady...

 

[phoucku]

great.. now we have to ask our TDs "is this a real A2836?" a clone of a clone. greedy as S!@h if u ask me.

 

[Raddave]

I got duped with one of those movements too, in a H factory SOSF. It is mentioned in this thread here...http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/new-high-beat-143241?t=143241

I initially thought it had a keyless problem when i recieved it, because of the date change problems. But after dissasembly and inspection, i could find nothing wrong (broken) with it. The quick set date changer just seems to be of bad design. The corrector gear would just sit and spin without actually moving upto the datewheel and engaging it.

I replaced that movement with a brand new Sellita 220 from Ofrei (which incidently came from the factory with a bad double corrector gear too ! HA, what luck, huh?). One of our wonderful memebers here sent me a new corrector gear, which i put in the Sellita and now all is good.

 

[cybee]

Don't know how sturdy that keyless is but I think it looks cool. A new style of clutch lever.

 

[Jkay]

This is a simple one to see - the shock spring mount for the balance staff is still the best way to tell the different models apart. Swiss makers always have three shock spring release notches. High quality clones always have one spring release notch and worse quality clones like this piece have no shock spring release notches at all.

The Chinese makers call the single notch mount the "simple block". It is a Chinese invention. 3 is Swiss. 1 is China. 0 is ... wow ... this sucks.

 

[mitchbaria]

In layman's terms Alex,,,,, your saying that the new 21j high beat movement that is being touted by TT and PC as there next great movement is pretty much garbage to a watchsmith and in your expert opinion not worth repairing or servicing?

 

[Uk Watch services]

In layman's terms Alex,,,,, your saying that the new 21j high beat movement that is being touted by TT and PC as there next great movement is pretty much garbage to a watchsmith and in your expert opinion not worth repairing or servicing?

I suppose I wouldnt go as far to say its garbage, it does a job and the ones I had were running well. it looks as if the issue with quick date change is going to be a regular occurrence and I certainly dont like the design of it. The actual train side isnt too bad, the dial side I dont like. Parts are certainly going to be an issue at this stage, unless the movements become readily available. At least at the moment with the ETA clones some gen parts fit if needed. Im not saying that its not worth servicing though, personally I probably wouldnt bother and would prefer clone ETA. The reason I wont service this watch is because Im not convinced the service would resolve the problem and saves any issues when im asking the customer to pay but its no better on the face of it than when it came to me. Dont forget I havent actually fully stripped this movement down so Im not in the best position to comment on it.

My main reason for posting it was to let everyone know that my customers had thought they bought asian 2836's and got this instead.

 

[sharrkey]

Nice find Alex and information like this is great for the community, tbh I would doubt most dealers are even aware of this, they buy from factory and punt onto us.
I know your talking about a asian clone but this is Just another reason why never to buy reps with the so called Swiss movement upgrade, I read somewhere a quote from vac that the Swiss movement going into the Ap divers where anything but 100% Swiss


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk S???R?I?????

 

[Uk Watch services]

I just realised my link i posted just looped you back to this thread! sorry I fixed it now.

Sorry raddave just realised its the same link you had posted, thats the one I meant to link to! cheers

 

[Jkay]

I know it's naive but we can hope that the new super clones orchestrated by TC become the standard in rep watches. To have a big factory already making them is a good start.

 

[mitchbaria]

I know it's naive but we can hope that the new super clones orchestrated by TC become the standard in rep watches. To have a big factory already making them is a good start.

Pipe dream,,, it'll never happen... I bought a midcase from him and got it last week and it's completely sterile....