Swapping a case on a Bronzo

[Liondeer]

I've been wanting a PAM 507 for quite a while and have just ordered one from Andrew at Trusty.

The price is low at $268, but then it is not the highest quality rep, with several inaccuracies, including the date adjust button at 7 'o' clock.

However the main problem I expect to have with it is the colour of the bronze.
As you can see from the pics it is a copper rich bronze with less tin (or aluminium).
The first pic is from the Trusty website, the second is one that Andrew sent me to give me an idea of the colour of the bronze before any patina develops.


So even before the watch has arrived I'm thinking about swapping out the case for a bronzo case that is closer in colour to the genuine article.

I've never done more than regulate a watch before, but I imagine the swap should not be that difficult....please correct me if I am wrong.

The main problem is sourcing a bronzo case - does anyone have ideas on that?

I've already asked Andrew at Trusty and he's told me that they don't do custom orders.

 

[erick510]

Why don't you give your current case a patina first ?

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[Liondeer]

Why don't you give your current case a patina first ?

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It's a fair suggestion, and is an option.

I've already got a diver in CuSn8 bronze and I've played around with patination this last week or so to see what is possible.

I can just see the red tones bugging me (I think in the second pic above the bronze has patinaed) and unless I give it a really good
covering of green/blue patina (which is not really what I want to do) then that rusty red will always be the dominant colour.

I'm not a guy who has a big watch collection (just 8 at present) so I like each watch that takes a spot to be as 'to my taste' as possible.

 

[kilowattore]

Imho the watch will look good in a very short time with only natural patina. Leave it out the window at night.
In any case it won't be easy to source a replacement case if you don't like it

 

[Liondeer]

Imho the watch will look good in a very short time with only natural patina. Leave it out the window at night.
In any case it won't be easy to source a replacement case if you don't like it

Thanks for your advice.
I've never heard that one before - "Leave it out the window at night".
I imagine that would work better the closer one is to the sea (I'm about 5 miles away).

So far I've found the most effective way of forcing patina is fuming with vinegar,
but since natural patina has so many causes I suppose it might be that it develops a colour that is not so red.

As for the case, I had mistakenly hoped that picking up a replacement would not that be difficult, but I stand corrected
from someone with considerably more experience that myself.

 

[kilowattore]

Why would you necessarily force patina? Let it develop naturally.
Here are some bronze case which patinated with no help except from the weather and I'm not close to the sea:

This one was quite pink compared to my 382

 

[Liondeer]

Great pics,
The patina on the PAM382 (I'd actually already admired in your thread on the 382) is particularly nice.

Of course I am appreciative of the difference between what I will call 'slow patina' , which is more subtle and nuanced, with each mark remembering moments of accumulated time,
and the 'fast patina' that comes from a process of forcing it.

If I had the right base - the right bronze colour, I would happily let the patina develop naturally on that base.
My situation is a little different in that I've a 507 on the way, but I could only get it on colour of bronze that I am not particularly enamoured of.
Hence the attempt to force it away from that colour as soon as possible.

If the 507 I've bought has the same bronze base colour as your 382, I'd quite happily wait for it develop slowly and naturally, as patina was meant to.

So I am definitely with you on that.

 

[JayBee0815]

So far I've found the most effective way of forcing patina is fuming with vinegar,

Dont do that. It depends on the alloy, what happens if you confront the case with a strong acid. I almost ruined a bronze case with vinegar. The vinegar has caused the tin to dissolve from the outermost layer of the alloy. After that, the case was pink like a small piglet. It took a lot of work with salt water and Brasso to get the old colour back.

 

[p0pperini]

After that, the case was pink like a small piglet.

When you put it like that, it sounds incredibly appealing, and I’m disappointed that none of my vinegar adventures has turned any of my bronzos into a miniature piggy.

 

[JayBee0815]

When you put it like that, it sounds incredibly appealing, and I’m disappointed that none of my vinegar adventures has turned any of my bronzos into a miniature piggy.

No problem. I can open a Trusted-Case-Discoloration-Service and can offer you a piggy bronzo for a modest price.

Here is a sneak preview what you will get ...

 

[p0pperini]

No problem. I can open a Trusted-Case-Discoloration-Service and can offer you a piggy bronzo for a modest price.

Here is a sneak preview what you will get ...

OH GOD MY EYES

 

[JayBee0815]

OH GOD MY EYES

Thank God, some treatments with Brasso and a salt water cure saved her. Now she has this unconventional but beautiful patina.

 

[p0pperini]

Thank God, some treatments with Brasso and a salt water cure saved her. Now she has this unconventional but beautiful patina.

Ooooh buddy, that really does look drop dead gorgeous. Bravo! Great save, and a stunning result.

 

[fred]

the best if you have luck is to put the watch in sea water, the bronzo naturally patinates. here an example of my 2 bronzo skating with sea water

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[Liondeer]

Dont do that. It depends on the alloy, what happens if you confront the case with a strong acid. I almost ruined a bronze case with vinegar. The vinegar has caused the tin to dissolve from the outermost layer of the alloy. After that, the case was pink like a small piglet. It took a lot of work with salt water and Brasso to get the old colour back.

Great job in the pics below, in regard to get your 382 back to where you wanted it, and with some fantastic patina.

In regard to what I did, just to be clear, I fumed with vinegar rather than immersing or applying vinegar to the bronze.

The fumes from vinegar create patina, whereas vinegar liquid applied to the bronze is a cleaning agent (just like lemon juice).

Hence your 'piglet' effect.

 

[JayBee0815]

Great job in the pics below, in regard to get your 382 back to where you wanted it, and with some fantastic patina.

In regard to what I did, just to be clear, I fumed with vinegar rather than immersing or applying vinegar to the bronze.

The fumes from vinegar create patina, whereas vinegar liquid applied to the bronze is a cleaning agent (just like lemon juice).

Hence your 'piglet' effect.

Yep, my big mistake was, to do a kind of try-and-error strategy and have not read about the basics before. But so I could learn from my errors ;-)
For example I learned from a good friend, who has a PD in chemistry, that the best way to restore the old color of the alloy is a treatment with a 5% Triammonium-Citrate-Solution at PH9 *lol* But it turns out, that it is nearly impossible to buy the basic materials for this in "household doses".

 

[fred]

I share with you this interesting article on the various methods

The Bronzed Patina: The curious case of patina. How to get it, and how not to.


https://deployant.com/the-bronzed-patina-the-curious-case-of-patina-how-to-get-it-and-how-not-to/


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[Liondeer]

I share with you this interesting article on the various methods

The Bronzed Patina: The curious case of patina. How to get it, and how not to.


https://deployant.com/the-bronzed-patina-the-curious-case-of-patina-how-to-get-it-and-how-not-to/


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Thanks for that.

Yes, the article is actually where I read that vinegar fumes create patina whereas liquid vinegar removes it.

it is the best article on patina on the web (that i could find) at least in regard to bronze watches.

 

[fred]

Thanks for that.

Yes, the article is actually where I read that vinegar fumes create patina whereas liquid vinegar removes it.

it is the best article on patina on the web (that i could find) at least in regard to bronze watches.

me too


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[Liondeer]

Yep, my big mistake was, to do a kind of try-and-error strategy and have not read about the basics before. But so I could learn from my errors ;-)
For example I learned from a good friend, who has a PD in chemistry, that the best way to restore the old color of the alloy is a treatment with a 5% Triammonium-Citrate-Solution at PH9 *lol* But it turns out, that it is nearly impossible to buy the basic materials for this in "household doses".

Looking again at the pictures you posted, it appears that after the vinegar bath your Bronzo turned to a piglet colour that is very like the pics of the Pronzo I've ordered that I put in my opening post.

Then looking at the pics of your Bronzo redeemed from its piglet status, I see that the two pics show very different colours.
I presume the more red one (first pic) is closer to reality but I'd be interested in knowing, as what you have achieved with salt water
might also be achievable with my Pronzo, when it arrives.

Also, how long did you leave it in the salt-water, and was it sea-water or just table-salt dissolved in water?