Good day to all.
I often see questions in order to find out which movt. Is set in a particular rep, and so on.
Of course, with a careful and consistent search, you can find the answer to any of these questions, also, of course, all the information is PAM GUIDE, but nevertheless, I decided to summarize in one post all the information necessary to understand the issue related to REP PAERAI movements in the whole.
Of course, all that the reps industry does is an attempt to repeat gen, so as I do in other posts, I will start from what exists in gen models, and how it is implemented in reps.
When defining your movt., It is still necessary to at least define the model of your watch, and what movement the gen of this model should have, either find them in the list, or the image, scrolling through everything.
This is still some time tart that will need to be donated, instead of opening the next topic.
I will warn you in advance, I do not consider all gen movements, because there are a lot of them (almost a hundred), and a very large part do not have adequate rep analogues, you can read about gen on a lot of specialized resources.
Also, I am forming a sequence, I use logic that seems to me to be successful for classification, and not that it is extremely convenient for determining exactly your watch, with which you do not know what to do, but I promise that if you read everything, then you will have a decent understanding of the theoretical part in order to navigate independently.
So what do we have.
In general, the panerai movements can be divided into two main parts:
- Borrowed movements
- Manufacture movements
Borrowed ones have been used from the very beginning of the history of modern panerai (I deliberately do not consider the vintage period, because this is an area of highly professional research that any lover of vintage pams must carry out himself), and conditionally they can be divided into two main groups:
- Movts., borrowed from ETA
- Movts., borrowed from other manufacturers.
All borrowed movts., Are named OP. ***, and are movements that the Richmont group buys from major manufacturers, makes changes, sometimes minor design changes, sometimes only markings and finishes, and can be used in watches of different brands of the group, but in particular , in PANERAI.
What changes do they make, do they do it themselves, or is it the work of parent industries on their order, these are nuances that can be discussed.
The important thing is that there is a basic movt., For example ETA 6497 of which Panerai has OP.I, OP.II, OPX, OP.XI and so on.
Besides the ETA, be it the 7750 or 6497, there are tons of other movts., From other manufacturers like Zenith, based on the El Primero chronograph, the OP.VI was made, which was used in the mass of 40mm Panerai chronographs, in the early 2000s, for example, pam060, or PAM077, the first tourbillon to use the Gerard Peregaux GP9907 caliber without even assigning an internal name to it, or if we take the more common Cal.877 JLC with a hand wind and 8 days, and a PR indicator on the back, used, for example in radiomir pam190.
There are actually a lot of such examples, often they are extremely exotic, or have serious complications, and are not subject to rep factories, so in this guide we will consider only those that had a more or less acceptable analogue.
In fact, throughout its early days, panerai used ETA movements for mainstream models with basic features, most of which have been replicated, and sophisticated high-end complications from Zenith, GP, JLC, Minerva, Lemania, Chezard and whatever you can think of. which, with a few exceptions, which we will consider, it was not possible to repeat.
Also, there were examples of the use of the historical Cortebert 616 and Angelus sf240, but these are rare examples, which we will touch on later.
Since there are really quite a few of them (about 35), they, in turn, can also be formally divided for ease of consideration, into hand wind, automatic wind, simple complications like gmt, PR, or a chronograph, or serious complications, for example, a split second , tourbillon, or independent second hand.
The second main group is the manufacture movements, the designation of which begins with P. **** and already in Arabic numerals, not roman.
Since 2005, and Cal. P.2002, in-house calibers with hand winds appeared, and since 2008, the P.9000 began the history of automatic wind movement, which evolve, multiply, modify, and take more and more segment of the panerai range, taking it for most of the present day. ...
Since there are even more of them (more than 50), they can be conditionally divided into manual wind, for example P.3000 or P.2002 and automatic, for example P.9000, or P.9010, as well as their derivatives with added functions, for example P .9012 with PR indicator.
To understand a little, here you need to digress a little to the naming logic:
Basic in-house calibers have a definite first number, whichParadise determines the type, design, dimensions:
For example P.9 ***, or P.3 ***.
Further, there are numbers after the fraction, which usually mean a modification of the original caliber, supplemented by a specific function.
For example:
P.2002 is just 8 days movt., With 3 barrels, hand wind, second hack, and second hand reset.
And its modification P.2002 / 1 additionally has a GMT 12 o'clock function, a linear PR indicator, and a day / night indicator parallel to the second hand, for example, in the classic PAM233.
It can also be a letter rather than a number, for example P.2002 / E which is used in models with an equation of time function such as the PAM656, PAM670 or PAM601 among all other complications, and the PR hand on the back.
Another example, modifications, is P.2002 / 9, which is used in PAM368 and PAM346, for example, and differs from the base P.2002 primarily by the presence of a PR indicator on the back side, but at the same time one model has a date indicator, and on the other is not there, despite the fact that the name of the caliber is the same.
In general, panerai shows that, as always, there are a lot of exceptions in classification issues, and we will encounter them in the process and with modifications of the P.3000 and P.5000, which have differences in design and function, with the same name.
Also, some modifications change the last digit within the main 4-digit caliber code, for example P.5000 is HW, 8 days PR, 3 barrels, and P.5001 is a modification with a PR indicator on the back.
Changes in the third digit are most often a change in the movt generation, for example, the P.9000 is an automatic movt., With 2 barrels and 3 days of PR, and the P.9010 is a movement with the same functionality, but newer, with different dimensions. but with the preservation of all functions.
The second digit usually reflects major changes in functionality and design with a common base and qualities, for example, the P.9000 is a simple automatic with a date, the P.9100 is a Flyback chronograph based on it.
As a result, after a little familiarization with what panerai used in his models, we can form a structure of the movements classification that follows from this:
1. Borrowed.
1.1. ETA
1.1.1. Hand wind
1.2.1. Automatic wind
- Derivatives 7750
- Others
1.2. Other manufacturers.
1.2.1. Hand wind
- Simple
- Complex
1.2.2. Automatic wind
- Simple
- Complex
2.Manufactory.
2.1. Hand wind
- Simple
- Complex
2.2. Automatic wind
- Simple.
- Complex
In fact, this is the most simplified classification, due to the fact that we have a primary rep context, and in fact, many categories will not even be considered and will not have adequate examples and references, for obvious reasons that the capabilities of rep factories rather limited due to the range of Chinese movts available for use in inexpensive replicas.
Nevertheless, in my opinion, this is a necessary basis for understanding what is happening and the possibility of understanding further.
Well, in general terms, I hope everything is clear, now let's fill in this classification and see what we have and in what capacity.
Like any "newly minted" luxury brand within a group of companies, before getting the budgets to develop its own movts, it had to prove the right to live here with what you can buy.
It was possible to buy, like from factories producing movements and components, borrow from other brands of the group, or buy from others directly.
As I mentioned above, many movts., Used on a permanent basis, received designations with Roman numerals (34 pieces, of which a few are not used in wristwatches at all), some are not.
Of the entire list, I will consider only the main ones that I see the point of mentioning.
Of course, the easiest and cheapest entry was through a mass producer of reliable and not picky movts., Which also differed in a small price.
All used ETA movts., Have a special finish or even a panerai style bridge design, some structural differences (for example, an extended shelf at the point where it rests on the platinum on 6497), and sometimes a specific configuration (increased frequency 6497/2), and of course higher grade and sizing according to brand standards, or independent (COSC)
It is said that it was Panerai who brought the hand wind fashion back to the world of luxury watches, where at that time there was an overwhelming number of automatic watches in this segment.
Necessity stems from historical roots and general form factor.
Panerai started with this, and there are many models that require regular hand winding.
Since historically, panerai is a large watch with a hand wind, then already in the pre-v era of the appearance of bettarini models, the choice of the first and main movement fell on ETA6497.
It's a simple, straightforward, reliable, large, cheap movement that fit both functionally and in size.
2 or 3 hands, a power reserve of about 2 days, is what was deemed sufficient, and its relationship to the Cortebert 616 also gave historical references.
Therefore, for ~ 25 years, we all got used to it, we love it and we know it.
It appeared in 1993 with the first luminor bettarini, but I do not consider this stage until 1997, this is more material for the homage forum.
From 1997 until 2018 until the transition to the in-house P.6000 was made, there were 5 main calibers that we are interested in, 4 of which had 2 design options, and 2 were also a destro orientation design, and in addition there were 13 different variations.
Difficulties are a little added by the fact that they are not signed, i.e., among the inscriptions on it, there is no name of a specific caliber, and since many models have a solid caseback, and even their owners do not always open them, confusion is possible, but we will now figure it out ...
As for rep, it's a big and generally happy story.
This movt. Was not difficult to do, it went through all the stages of development, thanks to which a whole class of cheap Chinese watches appeared on the A6497, and the price can vary from $ 35 standard on Ali to hundreds of $$$ for Marlin modded copies.
Much has been written, done, produced.
I'll go through just a few facts that seem interesting to me to read the rest, there are so many good topics.
- Rep 6497 is interchangeable with swiss and gen movt.
- There are old A6497-1 with a low rhythm and more modern A6497-2 with a high, corresponding to gen.
- SWISS 6497-2 is quite difficult to find and it costs significantly more than its low-frequency version. ETA did not retail.
- When considering REP movt., It is important that the design matches the respective panerai caliber and design.
- There were factory Swiss and hybrid movts., Including those from DSN, but they more often had serious defects in appearance, and are always low-frequency, also more often have an incorrect damping system for the balance. The easiest way to distinguish them is by the straight spokes of the balance wheel.
- Y incablok, this is the system of depreciation of the balance, which is used by gen panerai, but also copied on modern Asian 6497. The older ones had I incabloc. You can read more about this in sticky topics on 6497 in the panerai section, but the important thing is that this is the last actual improvement on movt. Elements, and yes, even if it is a Y shape, it is still not swiss, and this can be understood with a close examination with the naked eye. ...
- The main conclusion: modern A6497, for example, used in noob pam111, or pam127 is good enough not to find differences for an inexperienced user, but read about the Marlin modifications, and you will understand how much more needs to be done to get closer to gen.
- The first version produced since 1997.
- The design of the bridges is in line with the original ETA and has 2 main bridges.
- Used exclusively in solid caseback models.
- Does not have a lebidine neck regulator.
- Has 2 design options; paneraipanerai and the Geneva wave, the transition takes place around 2006.
- Since he does not have a second hand, he does not have a C.O.S.C.
PHOTO GEN (New design):
Although, the latest HF, V6F more often had the correct design and very gen-like appearance, despite the fact that no one was going to look at it. I respect them for this effort.
- Speaking of late reps, in the second design with the Geneva wave, the only thing worth noting is, as a rule, the absence of a Y incablock, even if otherwise they are executed correctly.
- There are old design reps with poor engraving quality and overall workmanship.
- There are Swiss and hybrids with poor appearance and low rhythm.
- There are good modern ones, but without Y incablock.
PHOTO REP (new design):
- Used in Marina models with second hand.
- Also has 2 design options, but also, each of them has a version for destro models, with inverted lettering.
- The only use case with transparent caseback - PAM036
PHOTO GEN (Old design):
- Over the years, reps have been produced with both designs.
- With the old design, the only decent option is the DSN, which was installed in his PAM036, the later version was the only “decent” version of the old design.
PHOTO REP (old design):
- Changed the design of bridges, now it is unique for panerai and there are 3 of them.
- Added "swan neck" regulator for more precise adjustment.
- Designed for base models, has 2 arms.
- 2 design options; the old one is paneraipanerai and the new one with Geneva stripes.
- The old design was produced around 2002-2005, the second version was produced until the end.
- Both designs have an option for destro models.
PHOTO GEN (New design):
PHOTO REP (NEW Design):
PHOTO GEN (OLD DESIGN):
- As in the case of OP.II, the current issue is frequency.
- Over the many years of its existence, it has seriously evolved, and had countless options for its appearance, from completely ridiculous to quite acceptable.
There are enough sticky topics where you can read all this, and I will not dwell on the specifics, differences and device.
You can find replicas of both the old design and the new, as poor performance with glued plates on which the engraving is stamped, and good in the latest versions of pam111 and pam127.
It can be Swiss movts., From the factory, or hybrids, it can be modified, it can be everything. This is described in detail and sentenced in many places, I will not stop.
PHOTO REP (OLD DESIGN, quality in different years from different manufacturers):
Most expected to see OP.II in it, but for probably embarrassing reasons that PANERAI chose not to name, all watches in this edition received the standard ETA6497.
In order not to make excuses, PANERAI simply gave this caliber an official name after the fact and was never used again.
PHOTO GEN:
Despite all the traditional component of panerai, automatic watches are essential in the line of any brand, and pam is no exception.
Panerai used many borrowed automatic calibers, but the main supplier for the mass models, as with the HW, was ETA.
A number of their movements have been used, not all of which are important in the context of the discussion of reps, but more below.
Derivatives 7750
Most of the most common automatic pams on borrowed movts were based on 7750.
There are many reasons, and besides the cost, reliability, the ability to refine and high accuracy, with the right setting, I would highlight the fact that this movt has a constant second hand at "9" hours, which makes the appearance of the dial very similar to the classic 6497 models who captivated the audience with their appearance.
Also worth noting is the following: as most people know, the ETA7750 is a chronograph.
Its modification, for the usual marina automatic, like the best-selling panerai of all time, the PAM104, is called the 7750-1P.
In fact, the chronograph module, respectively the accumulators, and the central second hand have been removed, and as a result we get a form factor typical for a wristwatch.
Further, at the request of panerai, they can add additional functions such as GMT, PR indicator, or completely unusual ones, for example, an electronic depth gauge for the PAM193, or even a perpetual calendar for the FER015 / 16.
This combination of qualities is the main reason for this original ETA caliber.
REP:
ETA 7750/3 clones have been around for a long time and they just needed to be optimized for the specific features of the PANERAI models as well. With some functions it succeeded, with some it failed.
You can read in detail about this movt., In the technical section of RWI, but I will highlight the main aspects:
- The old (Before 2010) 7750s were low-frequency and much less reliable, from that period all the "horror stories" about the unreliable 7750 have gone. Most of the Noob / HF we use today are good and reasonably reliable, like any other Chinese movt.
- The A7750 is not 100% similar in all details to SWISS, for example, the design of the DW drive gear, and there are many such examples, you can read more about this in the technical section.
- Panerai А7750 should have their own specific DW font, it is not similar to the standard one, neither Asian nor SWISS.
- Most of the A7750 / 3 is almost directly interchangeable with SWISS, only a GEN or REP panerai DW rearrangement is required, and a small adaptation (by tenths of a mm., The fonts of the chronograph dials.
- You can get a Swiss 7750 chronograph, remove the module, and use it in a rep model using only the date and second hand at "9".
- Since the appearance of the P.9000 clones, the A7750 was used instead of this caliber, and not only in models where the GEN must have this movt.
- Models with A7750 and clones p.9000 cannot be replaced with a direct one, and sometimes cannot be replaced at all.
- Had 2 designs of the rotor, and the bridge, similar to calibers on 6497, earlier with paneraipanerai and more modern with Geneva wave.
- Applies to models with solid caseback.
- Since 2018 it has been replaced by OP.XXX, featuring a large power reserve and no stop seconds function.
- With the appearance of the in-house P.9000, similar in arrangement of elements, but different in characteristics, the use of OP.III did not stop, they occupied different niches in the model range.
PHOTO GEN (Design 1):
PHOTO GEN (Design 2):
- Also produced in both designs, but due to the solid caseback, often the design did not match the model or series.
- There were old low-frequency OP.IIIs, mainly in replicas before 2010, later only full-fledged, modern ones were used.
- Interchangeable with Swiss 7750, provided all chronograph assemblies are removed.
- Even the latest and most beautiful movts., Manufactured by HF and NOOB, have elements directly on the surface that distinguish them from GEN, for example, the rotor bearing and the absence of a gold engraving of the movt serial number.
PHOTO REP(Design 1):
PHOTO REP(Design 2):
PHOTO REP(NON DECORATED):
ST2555
Cheaper versions still use the Seagull movement st2555, which completely repeats the functions and arrangement of 7750 date elements, but costs much less.
- On the cheaper versions, most often it has a standard specific date font, by which it is not difficult to notice it.
- Usually used on replicas of lower quality, I do not know of examples of the equivalent use of A7750 and ST2555 in rep models, the gen of which OP.III should have.
PHOTO REP(Non decorated):
PHOTO REP(decorated):
- I also want to add that there are many other movts. That tried to replace 7750, but either very old or not very high quality, for example DG2813, but this is not very widespread today, so I will not get stuck on it.
PHOTO REP:
- This movt., Has an add-on moduleGMT instead of chronograph.
- The GMT hand completes a circle in 24 hours.
- In fact, it replaced the first automatic GMT based on ETA2893-2, used in PAM023, PAM029, PAM063, with a central second hand.
- Was replaced by OP.XXXI as part of the transition of all models based on the ETA7750 with the transition for example new refs, for example from PAM00088 to PAM01088.
- I do not know of examples of this movt., Other brands, I may be wrong, but it seems that it was only used for panerai.
- Also, had 2 design options.
PHOTO GEN (Design 1):
PHOTO GEN (Design 2):
- Most of the models with this movt. Were manufactured by HF, except for the PAM297, PAM088 from NOOB. It was believed that it was originally copied by order of this factory.
- I've never seen a SWISS 7750 on sale with this functionality, and I'm not sure if it ever existed, not only in ETA retail, but also for other budget brands, so not only factory, but also custom builds with rep pams with this function, I have not noticed.
- In inexpensive versions, often complete with an incorrect transparent caseback, you may see seagull ST2557, or a similar older Chinese movt. They have never been used in equivalent quality versions, and are also usually easily identified frontally, from the standard DW.
- In older versions, before Asian movts., With the gmt module, you might have come across the A7750 date, with a non-functional GMT hand.
- There is only one example of PAM088 VSF, where instead of A7750 the clone P.9001 was used, which is fundamentally incorrect, primarily because the clone of the manufactory movt. Has a 12 hour GMT function, in accordance with the markings on the dial, while time, like gen OP.VIII, like A7750 GMT - 24 hours.
As the participant's experience in the thread of discussion of this model shows, it is not possible to replace them indirectly. DW also differs in size.
PHOTO REP (7750HF DESIGN 2):
OP.IX (PR)
- Came to replace the ETA2892-A2 with the PR SOPROD 9040 module, which was installed in the first PR PANERAI models: PAM027, PAM028, PAM057.
- When upgrading, it was replaced by OP.XXXII, for example, for model PAM01090.
- As with other ETA based automatic movts, the advent of an in-house caliber with a similar function did not stop production, but narrowed the range.
- Destro's use of this movt. Looks really menacing.
PHOTO GEN:
- There are relatively budget versions with ST2530 and PR working function, which, as in the case of previous calibers, had a standard incorrect DW, but unlike them, there were versions of higher quality in other aspects, with correct caseback and acceptable dials.
- The HF factory produced these models according to high quality standards for itself, but changed the A7750 date, while the PR arm was not functional and was simply glued.
- As a result, we don't have good reps with this movt.
- The photos don't make much sense, you just see another А7750 date in any of the designs, or ST2555 with or without engraving if you open the caseback.
- The main panerai choronograph for 44+ mm models, after the end of the era of models with movts., Based on Zenith.
- Used only in models with a closed caseback.
- Setting the date not with a crown, but with a button at 10 o'clock, unlike the standard chronograph ETA7750.
- It was used in chronograph models with completely different dial layouts, including those without a date function, or 2 register models without a watch accumulator.
PHOTO GEN(Design 1):
PHOTO GEN (Design 2):
- Until 2010, the A7753 variant was an exceptional rarity, and we mainly see automatic chronographs with the A7750, the button on the side of which is pressed but not functional, and the date is set using the crown.
They can usually be seen by the slightly sunken date in the window.
- In 2 register models, for example PAM288, rep movt was sometimes used., With HW - ST19, which has no automatic winding, but with solid caseback this is not visible, but the functions are the same. However, this does not eliminate the problem of the distance between the constant second hand and the chronograph minute counter, which made the v6f version uncompetitive.
It is also interesting with the rep PAM202 / 225, the GEN of which should have the basis of this caliber, but they do not have a date function, therefore the use of A7750 / 7753, in fact, does not matter, because the dial layout and functionality are, in fact, common.
- SWISS 7753 is interchangeable with Asian, usually for this you need to replace the standard DW with rep, and small hands have a difference inthe diameter of the seats by 0.05 mm, which is not a lot, and does not require serious modifications.
PHOTO REP(Design 1):
PHOTO REP(Design 2):
Frankly, I have never seen it inside, and I do not know what it looks like, but since there is a hand on the dial, and for its correct operation there is a special device, inside the case, we will assume that we just have movt., With an additional function.
With your free hand, you just need to detach it from the actuator and fix it in the OFF position.
- Since the basis, as I mentioned, is 7750, and not 7753 as in conventional automatic chronographs, the date is set with a crown, the date setting buttons are not.
ALE wrote more about this movement in the PAM GUIDE, where the story is not that simple, but in this context, perhaps this is not so important, so I'll skip it.
- Came to replace OP.VI based on Zenith 400 used in pam060, for example.
- Applies to models with transparent caseback.
- What is FLYBACK and how it works no problem look at YOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/le9auRKvngo
PHOTO GEN:
- However, since there is no second central second hand, like Rattrapante, without trying to reset it with the second button, without stopping the first one, it is rather difficult to understand that something is wrong, therefore, from a functional point of view, it is almost acceptable.
- Behind, under the transparent caseback, the differences of movt are perfectly visible, but thanks to the same rotor and balance wheel, this is not noticeable to those who do not know how gen movt should look correctly, and believe me, in practice, there are very few such people.
- Also, it should be noted that the date is set by the crown, and there is no date, so there will be no unnecessary complications that accompanied typical bettarini chronographs.
- The vast majority of the PAM212 and PAM256 that can be found today were made by HF and were based on the modern high-frequency 7750.
- There were old pre-2010 cartel replicas equipped with an older and less reliable low-rhythm 7750.
- There is a rep PAM212 with a quartz movement, but it will not be difficult to distinguish it, for obvious reasons, both from the back and from the front, due to incorrect intervals between the counters.
- There are many bad and often old reps that have incorruptible functions on the "3" and "9" hours counters, but we will not go into this in detail, it is enough to check how they work, and outwardly it does not look close at all.
PHOTO REP:
- Just like OP.XIX does not have a button and the date is set with a crown.
- A good example of the versatility of the base 7750
- The principle of operation of this type of chronograph is worth looking at YOUTUBE for a complete understanding:
https://youtu.be/le9auRKvngo
PHOTO GEN:
Also, it is worth noting that even in the case of GEN, this is a heavily modified, complex and not the most stable movt., And in the case of rep, all fears about the potential of its work should be multiplied by 10, therefore, if you become the happy owner of one , check how it works, show it on video to your friends, and do it a second time when it's time to sell it, because the likelihood of a breakdown can be high, as is the cost of potential maintenance.
However, this is the "museum" example of the rep industry when VSF decided to show what they can do.
- More widespread rep PAM213, PAM286, PAM332, PAM214 were saddled by the HF factory, and used the modern 7750, which were ordinary chronographs, with no additional function.
The 2 central second hands are glued to each other, and work as one, and the reset button on the opposite side is not functional, and is fixed, moreover, at the wrong length.
- You can also find quartz versions that I will not comment on.
- There are also cheap options without a chronograph, wheree sub dials perform any other functions of a randomly selected movt., for this purpose.
PHOTO REP (VSF):
PHOTO REP (HF):
OP.XXX (DATE)
OP.XXXI (GMT)
OP.XXXII (PR)
These are three movements that have come to replace OP.III, OP.VIII, OP.IX, which differ in their increased power reserve and the absence of stop seconds.
There are currently no reps with this movt., But given that they are all used in models with a solid caseback, and also do not differ in finishing, except for other inscriptions of the name, then this is probably not the most important thing.
Not only was the 7750 used by panerai for their models, especially in the early periods. At the moment, probably almost all pams models with other ETA movts., This is quite a rarity, because the model is either old or included in some kind of special edition, such as the reissue of PAM028, or the special edition of PAM716.
However, for us, in the context of reps, only a few of them matter.
2892-A2 SOPROD 9040
The modified 2892 returned only in 2009 as part of a special reissue of the PAM028 L series.
As with the 7750, this ETA caliber has been modified with an additional module with a PR function, making it a rather rare piece in this version.
For all models in which it was used, solid caseback was also applied.
PHOTO GEN:
“The reps of these models, sold by DSN, or HONPO, had a Swiss 2892-A2, with engraved or non-engraved panerai style rotor.
These are good, rare and expensive watches and high quality reps.
- Often, in the case of DSN, it required the replacement of DW from standard ETA to custom.
- Not often, but I have come across old replicas of poor quality with some Asian movt. I don't know about, with the pr indicator working, but located in an almost correct position, closer to the center of the dial.
In any case, this is something basic about Seagull, apparently inverted, and clearly does not meet our requirements for reps quality.
This is a rather expensive watch, so it is important to know what the movement should look like when checking, so it makes sense to consider several possible options with the position of the rotor in different sectors.
PHOTO REP (SWISS Honpo with deco ):
PHOTO REP (SWISS DSN sterile ):
PHOTO REP (SWISS DSN engraved without decoration ):
- It was also used at first, later it was replaced in mass models by OP.VIII, with the second hand at the 9 o'clock position.
- It also returned only in 2010 for the reissue of PAM029, as part of a special series.
- In all used models, it was hidden under a solid caseback.
PHOTO GEN:
- SWISS 2893-2, as in the case of 2892-A2, was in the old PAM029 with a T dial, it can be decorated or not, in particular, with the famous spelling error on the rotor.
- SWISS 2836 was installed as an option and as standard, it can be brass or nickel-plated, with or without a perforated stop. A good choice that was cheaper and more affordable than the ETA2892 but didn't really make a difference until you look under the solid caseback.
- A2836 was used in the NOOB PAM029 M series with an L dial, for example, and was the cheapest and easiest way to get the functionality you need.
It can also be found in some DSNs.
PHOTO REP (SWISS 2893-2):
PHOTO REP (SWISS ETA2836/SW200):
PHOTO REP (A2836):
In addition to ETA, other watch manufacturers also borrowed.
This was mainly the case for either early models or exotic features, sometimes due to the visual appeal of movt., And the increased value of the special edition, or simply for reasons of historical referencing.
- Reliable movt., Which has proven its design genius for decades.
- He's really very handsome.
- Has historical roots, 2 register chronographs, with HW, linking it to mare mostrum, as one of the associative centers of the historical side of the brand.
- Used primarily in MN models, and several respectable radiomirs, to emphasize everything that was written above. This is a stylistic choice.
PHOTO GEN:
Yes, its appearance and finish does not significantly reach gen movt., But the general type is similar in appearance, corresponds in functionality and supports the dial layout.
And what is not unimportant, it is not expensive and maintainable.
It is also worth noting that this is a movt., In which the use of a chronograph, of course, slightly increases the risk of breakage (hard buttons and soft levers), but does not accelerate wear of the working parts by its work. You can use it fully.
It can be decorated in different ways, so it is worth paying attention to the specific factory of the model manufacturer, but its very presence is already good.
- There are quartz versions of models whose gen this movt uses, but it is not difficult to determine.
PHOTO REP:
- It has 2 registers and HW.
- As far as I know, it has an ETA7750 base modified for HW, but not Minerva.
- I do not really understand the manufacturer's motivation to do just that, and I assume that this is some kind of internal complexity of the company, or an attempt to gain new experience, which for some unknown reason for me was not crowned with success.
In fact, there is no reason not to provide it with a standard OP.XII, like many other chronographs, since the case allowed, but apparently my knowledge is not enough for this.
- For the most common HF rep pam308, the automatic 7750 was used, which made it look accurate, but did not give the correct function, although it was a little more convenient.
In any case, removing the rotor where it is is always a little easier than adding it where it should not be, so this problem can be solved, at least from the point of view of the correspondence between gen and rep motv., Not to mention external manifestations and as a rep, especially since the solid caseback will not give an incorrect appearance of this solution.
PHOTO REP (ST19):
PHOTO REP (7750):
- From a practical point of view, it is a low-frequency analogue of 6497 with a number of other design solutions, such as a variable inertia balance wheel, and an impressive historical appearance
- Due to its antique design and high quality finish, it was used for models of special series made of precious metals, or simply at a high price point, to maintain an overall vintage, or even antique look.
PHOTO GEN:
REP:
- Made on the basis of 6497, with the design of bridges, but of course, upon closer examination, it had a lot of flaws, both constructive and in the overall quality of decoration, inscriptions, etc.
Used on a number of titanium radiomirs, for example, PAM309, PAM322 from N / N factories.
- Later it appeared on PAM399 from the SF factory, according to the owners, apparently, it was not a new movt., But had old ones that existed before.
- In any case, it is quite a rare movement these days, and with all the drawbacks it is nice and exotic to have.
- Replicas of lower quality, usually had any A6497 that came to hand to the manufacturer.
PHOTO REP (OLD):
PHOTO REP (SF):
- From a practical point of view, this corresponds to 6497 movements.
PHOTO GEN:
- A little-known factory JH produced PAM021, in which it installed A6497 with bridge design in gen. It was not cheap, and since our TDs, for some reason, mostly bypassed it, it was not distributed on RWI.
- Surely you can also come across many homage projects based on molnija, which had the maximum external and structural similarity from those movts., Which are readily available these days and are cheap.
PHOTO REP (JH):
PHOTO REPS (DSN):
- There are many discussions about this, gen models were unique and expensive, they say, just by selling these watches, Richmond has already almost recouped its costs of acquiring the brand.
- There are also many opinions about their origin, but technically, these are historical movements of the 50s, restored, calibrated and installed in a newly produced watch for them.
PHOTO GEN:
- There are enough homages of these models using gen Angelus modified from alarm clocks. This is not often, to the extent that it is expensive.
- In fact, in the world of rep there is no full replacement for this movt., But it was impossible to miss it due to the historical importance, the prevalence of individual builds, and simply the desirability of these rare watches.
PHOTO REP (GEN mod.movt):
- Mod for Panerai has 4 more jewels, but 2 days less PR and individual design in the style of the brand.
- The task was to add an additional automatic movement to the line with the usual PR of at least 3 days, but at the same time in a compact size, to implement the plans for 42 and 38 mm models.
- Later it will be referred to in other models as P.900, and will go into the category of manufacture, although I am not aware of any changes regarding P.XXXIV in it, apart from other markings.
PHOTO GEN:
- High-end VSF reps use the P.9000 clone, which does not match OP.XXXIV in appearance, as seen on models with a transparent caseback when we talk about luminor due, or gold PAM973.
On models with a solid caseback, the disadvantage is that the gen does not have an independent watch hand, and other features of the manufactory P.9 ***, but is controlled in the same way as 7750 based movts.
It is also important to understand that gen movt., 30 x 4.2mm in size, and all models using p.9000 cannot match it in thickness.
- Cheap reps usually have st2555 at the base, without decoration, only a rotor made in the panerai style, which is no longer a bad thing, because it takes up most of the plane visible under the backcase.
PHOTO REP:
Output:
At the first stages of brand formation, before the advent of manufacturing movements, this was a forced measure, but nevertheless, 6497 is now associated only with panerai, despite the fact that it was essentially a borrowed movement, and clones of this movt., Received this it is widespread that some not expensive official brands use them in their legitimate watches, not to mention that the OP.X / XI bridge design itself, which is essentially panerai, is not something unique to this brand in the eyes of the average user if there are no markings on it.
Also, it should be noted that modifications of ETA7750, similar to OP.III / VIII / IX, did not appear in other brands, and their change in the form of OP.XXX/XXXI/XXXII is still used in the panerai lineup, despite the presence of manufactory analogs.
Of course, many complex borrowed movements were not included in this text, because they are often unique even for the watch world, and their rep either did not correspond to the size, layout, or functionality.
There are the excellent OP.XIV - HW JLC 1877 with 8 days PR and indicator on the back, or OP.VII chronograph with Flyback Zenith, not to mention the many movements that have not been named in the panerai classification system and have remained with their original names.
From a rep's point of view, the period of non-in-house calibers is a golden age.
The maximum number of models that could be implemented without producing a specific clone, the potential for the production of models on which it is difficult to assess.
A6497, A7750 / 3 derivatives, these are most of the superreps panerai, which our beloved brand has much more than many other brands.
This is not something that will be developed in the future, but factories should be taughtto assume that the lion's share of the brand's fans remained their hearts in 1997-2006, and the demand for them may not be as massive as the sale of bright modern models to people "candy wrappers" who do not know anything and are not going to learn about the brand, but for sure will exist for a long time, because this is what attracts new fans of the brand to this day.
It is more difficult with borrowed movements from other brands ... In fact, except for ST19, which cannot be applied everywhere (a good example with the PAM192 gen, which uses a rather rare OP.XVI with a smaller diameter than the usual OP.XXV), and derivatives 6497, as in the case with OPXXVII, or Cortebert618, we don't have anything complete.
But, thanks for that too, because it is really very controversial, due to the low prevalence, and as a result of commercial efficiency.
I missed a lot of interesting calibers that did not have good reps and did not set the task of dealing with movts., Absolutely bad reps, which simply do not look like anything at all, so it is difficult to make a mistake with them.
It should also be noted that ETA derived movts., This is a field for applying modifications with swiss details and movement in general, and they may differ in design and some details, but it is better to learn this through the technical section of our forum, where people write who, unlike they can at least remove my hands from movt. without scratching them. And we are moving into the next era of panerai movements ...
2.Manufactory.
- Measures 27 × 3.4mm and was introduced to produce 42mm models with hand winds, which clearly cannot be fitted with OP.X / XI
- Has one barrel, PR 60 hours, or 2.5 days, which is more than on ETA counterparts.
- In fact, it would be reasonable to see it in the list of borrowed ones, with Roman numerals in the name, I do not know about modifications, in addition to the design, making it a manufacturing one.
PHOTO GEN:
- It looks very much like gen, but loses in many respects, especially due to the presence of standard blue screws, as well as the position of the balance wheel at "6" and not at "12", and the fact that the size of the movement is clearly larger than gen, within the transparent caseback.
- This is a heavily modified configuration of st2555 or related movt., Adapted to work with HW, removed auto-recoil module, but added decorative plate.
In this example of an attempt to make the P.999, it is far from perfect, but it is the first step towards the real clone that the V6F made and a similar basis we will see in other rep manufactory movts., Panerai.
PHOTO REP (V6F):
- Also used for small models radiomir, radiomir 1940 and the first luminors due, due to the compact size of 27 × 3.85mm.
- This time, it is a full-fledged in-house caliber, with a PR increased to 72 hours and a PANERAI-specific balance wheel mount with 2 axles with shock absorbers.
- It has a skeletonized modification of the P.1000 / 10, which is traditionally equipped with panerai analogs of existing models, but made of precious metals.
- It also has a gull base, but this time the balance wheel is correctly positioned, although there are still a lot of flaws in terms of appearance, and most importantly, thickness, which does not allow it to be fully used in 42mm models.
- Just like the P.999 from V6F it has a mixed gull base, but even more heavily modified, on the way to their best
P.2002 / 9.
PHOTO REP:
- In the first iteration, it had the functionality of 3 hands, with a second at "9", a linear PR indicator on the dial, a GMT hand at 12 o'clock, and a 24 hour indicator parallel to the second hand, which is quite important, at 12 o'clock GMT, which is not small, glasses of functionality, and the reason for this is that at first the Basic caliber was presented, which has further modifications, primarily related not to additional functions, but on the contrary - to their absence.
- P.2002 without additional indices can be seen only in PAM200 / PAM201, and one Ferrari model, later, in PAM233 / PAM289 it is usually called P.2002 / 1, there is also a modification of P.2002 / 2, but the differences between these 3 are not I know if someone in the know can indicate in the comments.
- P.2002 / 3 is a modification of the same movement, but without the GMT function, for example PAM268 and PAM384.
- P.2002 / 7
This is the most simplified modification, having only 3 arms, in accordance with the original historical canons, in accordance with SF240, which was used by PAM339 / PAM341, both of which have a solid caseback, therefore its appearance is not known to the general public, but most likely does not differ from the standard one.
- P.2002 / 9
A similar option, only with the PR indicator not from the front, but on the contrary, was used in such models as PAM346, PAM735 and PAM368, which is interesting, in one case, it has a date, in the other it does not, but this is not so much related to the specifics of movt., how much with the design of specific models.
Also, it is interesting that in the case of the PAM368, even with the wider edges of the transparent caseback, it is quite noticeable that movt. Is quite small, relative to the 47mm case, and the second hand is quite close to the center, given the absence of the logo on the opposite side for 8 days, for that to balance it.
So, movement, which primarily has historical references in its functions, did not quite fit into the most, that neither is the historical model (or in any case, less organically than others).
- P.2002 / 10
Skeletonized design of full functionality used on precious metal models such as radiomir PAM538
- P.2002 / E
The most difficult modification, among other things, with the function of the equation of time.
It is also not easy to find similar in specific functionality, and at the same time, it should be HW.
Considering that there are many modifications with different functionality, the issue was usually solved by factories individually, for a specific model.
But in general, one can distinguish the formation, as I believe, of clones from the banal ST2533 with a rotor, to the almost full-fledged P.2002 / 9 in PAM346, and some situational decisions.
Now we will analyze each modification and model separately, but we will take into account the "spoiler": there is nothing in really red quality in the P.2002 line of replacements.
- 2002/1, 2
When the PAM233 was made it was a hot item and couldn't be bypassed, and factories used the ST2533, which had a number of drawbacks, the most obvious of which was the rotor, as it is an automatic movement, which is a problem given the presence of transparent caseback.
Also, to set the date, you need a pusher on the side at 4 o'clock, which is not available on gen.
In the end, the PR indicator did not work completely correctly, in terms of length, and did not have a curtain covering the cut, as a result of which the shiny metal parts of the movement were always visible through it.
There are other shortcomings, after all this there is no point in discussing, the above is enough, and unfortunately, we never received a decent movt., For this, one of the most popular models.
Nevertheless, these old reps are pretty reliable, very common, and have an incredible amount of variations in appearance and quality, up, often, to pretty pretty fantasies.
- P.2002/3
The V6F factory made the PAM384, which was supposed to have this caliber.
They went further from the ST2533 and modified it for use as an HW movt. And also supplied decorative plates to emulate the gen.
This is a big step forward, but the look still didn't match the gen, the balance wheel was at 6 o'clock instead of 11, and there was also a button to set the date.
- 2002/7
Since this is the simplest modification, and has HW, A6497 is installed in PAM341 and PAM339, which is not visible, thanks to the solid caseback, but it has an incorrect distance between the second hand and the center of the dial, so V6F applied its "under-bow" P. 2002/3, in rep pam339, and given the solid caseback, it came out almost perfect, except of course the 8 days of power reserve. It has a standard PR for a seagull of ~ 42 hours.
- 2002/9
The PAM368 replica was equipped with a regular A6497, which was not correct with anyFrom the point of view, neither function, nor dial layout, nor appearance under the transparent caseback, although the reality is that these reps were bad from all points of view, and incorrect movement was clearly not the highest drawback.
But for the PAM346 V6F went further, from their A.2002 / 3, and now the movement looks very good, except for some decorative gears and a non-functioning PR indicator.
However, it is so much modified movt. That I would call it a clone. Yes, it doesn’t repeat all the functions, and the construction is not the same, but it’s an individually designed movement, especially for copying the P.2002 / 9, and it looks very decent.
It is a pity that this is the only model where they managed to apply it, because with it they could also make the PAM368 and PAM735, which could be very popular.
Therefore, we immediately carry over from 2010 and welcome the large (~ 37mm) HW movt., For 47mm models (It is 1mm thicker than 6497).
In the basic version, these are 2 hands, 2 barrels and 3 days of PR.
It has become a full-fledged replacement for 6497 derivatives for 47mm expensive models, and fits better, and is also cheaper than the P.2002, and the position of the balance wheel and second hand is similar to the 6497 prototype.
It had a ton of modifications, shapes and designs that we will mention.
The base P.3000 had 2 design options, the second also in an engraved version for some models, and these changes do not have a special designation.
There are also 4 modifications with different functions, but marked with "/", while not having data on this in the movement marking (They are all just P.3000), and finally 2 functional modifications with a name change.
Let's figure it out now:
- The basic version of the P.3000 was installed, for example, in PAM372, PAM425, PAM448, PAM605.
In this case, it's just "base", 2 hands.
- In 2016, I received a design change, starting with the PAM687, and then it was produced only in this design version, including on those models that had the old design in previous years, for example, on the PAM372.
This change did not change the labeling.
- In the same 2016, the PAM672 appeared, with an engraved case and an engraved P.3000 in a new design, and received the F index, which, however, is not included in the marking.
- P.3000 / 1 is an addition to the base caliber, with a second hand. Used, for example, in PAM375 or PAM690. At the back, there are no differences, including no additional markings.
At the back, it does not differ from the P.3000, so there is no need for a photo.
- P.3000 / 2 variant with date, both with a second hand (for example PAM515) and without it (for example PAM424 in the first production series).
The rear also does not differ from the base P.3000.
- P.3001 in basic version, this is P.3000 with added second hand and PR indicator on the back, which makes it easy to confuse with P.3000 / 3, but without GMT. The divisions here are very arbitrary, and apparently the logic has changed, but we can always remember the model with this movement PAM422.
- P.3001/10
it is a skeletonized version used as decoration for expensive radiomors made of precious metals, for example PAM598, PAM570 and in pocket watch models, but with only 2 hands.
- The P.3001 / C is a very special movement, used only as a prototype on the PAM700. It makes sense to read about it on GEN resources, I can't explain it in 2 words, but it uses a lot of unique solutions, and is only constructively connected with the P.3000 base, and in fact is a show car.
- P.3002 version of P.3001, with a second hand with the PR indicator transferred to the dial, in the usual style and position OP.IX / OP.XXXII or P.9002, with a single model PAM423.
The base P.3000 was of great interest, and the PAM372 is one of the most popular, so replicas of one kind or another appeared even before they could make the new 1950 47mm case.
- A6497 was used on the very first versions, it fits in size, but given the use of a transparent backcase, it is completely incorrect in appearance.
You can also find tons of cheap DHgate versions with the A6497. I will not add photos, 6497 have seen everything, especially since the design can be of any kind.
- 6497 + deco plate.
A very common type used on cheap versions from both TD in certain years and DHgate around the world.
The position of the balance wheel, its size is not correct, and the shape of the bridges is not correct. They are often found in correct, albeit not quite high-quality cases, extended on PAM372, PAM605, PAM687 and many other P.3000 models, but they can have absolutely any random flaws, so you need to be careful with them: watch the position of the balance wheel, and a line separating the bridges, at least. Upon close examination, it is not difficult to determine all this.
They can repeat in design both the standard P.3000 and the new design and modification F with engraving for PAM672 / 972.
- Cartel 6497.
This is a modification of the 6497, with individual axle designs, which, according to the person who invented it, looks more like the P.3000 than the standard A6497.
Used by NOOB (for example, PAM372) and VF6 (for example, PAM605), later, they were in different models of lower quality factories.
This movt., Was used in quality reps, but is not at all like P.3000, which even forced many to use solid caseback so as not to see it, for example, on the PAM372 noob.
He has everythingP.3000 markings, but the position, size, shape, attachment of the balance wheel are not correct, the shape of the bridges is not the same.
This variant 6497 also has several different versions, differing in finish, color of the jewel, but now this is not so important, over the years.
- Clone P.3000 (V1-V4)
Since the end of 2013, clones of the P.3000 have appeared.
True p.3000 clones were only present in the SF and ZF factory models, and one example of the PAM972 is from the V9F factory.
They have the correct balance wheel position, size and shape (spoke pattern and variable inertia screws), and most importantly, there are really 2 barrels, and a power reserve of 5-7 (6.5 on average from what I have seen), which is more. than GEN.
Clones can differ visually, in color, position and size of decorative stones (You can read more about this here: https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...-p-3000-clone- movements-from-clone1-to-clone-4), the shape of the knob, the presence or absence of a logo under the balance wheel, and some other elements.
There are clones of both the classic P.3000 in the PAM372 and the new design in the PAM687.
There are also F clones for engraved Ferenze models.
It is a completely independent, purpose-built movement, although it has some details from the existing ones, and the RWI specialists know how to maintain it.
I have not seen specific examples, and a detailed description of the list of works, but according to the assurances of the participants, it is interchangeable with the A6497.
Everything is always relative, but this clone in the latest version is really quite accurate in relation to GEN, relatively reliable and shows good performance.
Any clone can always be easily distinguished from GEN simply by the absence of the second of the two symmetrical screws securing the two bridges at 12 o'clock.
PHOTO REP (Engraved P.3000F):
- P.3001 model, the PAM422 could have an A6497 with a decorative plate which in some cases had, and in some did not, a fake PR arm.
There was also a "cartel" A6497 labeled P.3001, similar to the early P.3000, but also with a false PR indicator on the back.
The last and best option was the SF with a clone of the P.3000, with the correct markings for the P.3001, and also a false PR indicator that is fixed in one position.
- P.3002 was used exclusively in PAM423, could have A6497, or a clone of P.3000, but in any case, the PR indicator on the dial was not functional and the PR hand was fixed in one position.
There will be no photos, they are similar to those already shown above, just the P.3000 marking is replaced with P.3002.
Also, AW reps, low quality with a working PR on a seagull-based dial, DHgate format, are common for them.
In addition to everything that I described, there are many completely incorrect examples of cheap reps, but I don't think it will be so interesting, and there is a lot of text anyway.
Also, attempts to make P.3001 / 10, or P.3001 / G are usually completely ridiculous, so I will skip them too.
Let's move on.
Regardless of the presence or absence of the second hand, they have one index P.5000
In the process of releasing and developing the lineup, it changed externally, and received some modifications, which I will mention.
Also, it was used both in models with solid casebacks and with transparent ones.
- Design 1
- A6497
The very first, and later simply cheap versions were sold and are present on Dhgate today from 6497.
Since most of the models have a transparent caseback, this is not acceptable, in any version of the decoration, the floor is any 6497 caliber.
- 6497 + deco plate
The V6f specialized in the P.5000 with a decorative plate over the A6497. Since the design of gen P.5000 bridges is such that you cannot see anything under them, this could be acceptable, but the balance wheel has a different position, the size and the attachment bridge should have 2 thin supports, and the 6497 has one and is much wider, therefore it can be seen from under the decorative plate.
Overall, in terms of movt., This is not the highest quality option, although the decorative plate is very well made, albeit with an obviously fake brass gear.
- P.5000 clone
ZF has made the so-called P.5000 clone, which has been used in a variety of models such as PAM510, PAM560, PAM562, PAM564 and so on.
In fact, this is the same P.3000 clone with an additional decorative plate, similar to what the V6f did, but taking into account the correct position of the balance wheel.
By the way, the wheel is still slightly larger and has a different spoke design.
It also does not solve the problem of the apparently non-functional brass gear.
On the other hand, PR, although not 8 days, but about a week, which is really close to the real value, and a lot for rep hours.
Yes, this one is not perfect, but a large percentage satisfactory, and is the best solution for models with this caliber when considering movement.
Design 2
Also a brass gear, has a different base, size and position.
I'm not sure if there are functional differences, but it is known that many who bought gen models with p.5000 of the original release wrote about different problems.
Probably something was taken into account and changed.
Of course, it is not easy to keep the timekeeping at 8 days of the watch's course, but at the same time I have at least 2 people familiar with gen watches of this caliber, and they did not experience any difficulties.
One way or another, without factual information, it is difficult to judge the changes.
They do not have a clone, the appearance is realized with a decoration plate, on top of the usual 6497.
This form factor has already known appearance problems, and the plate itself is not made with all the correct details.
In any case, this is their first experience, and so far, the only model.
Design 3
On the latest models with the P.5000, we see a different design of the main axle, without the notch with the gear at all, like the PAM992.
This design allows this part to be unified with another caliber based on it, about which below.
There are currently no REP models with this design option.
P.5001
The first functional modification of this movt., Appeared only in 2018 with the PAM796 destro, and has a PR indicator on the back.
P.5002
The second functional modification of this movt., Has a PR indicator on the dial, which can be seen on the PAM797, PAM795, in its already traditional position and format, while, interestingly, equipped with an arrow as on the old PAM027 and PAM028, which is definitely more aesthetically pleasing, in my opinion, than a leaf.
Also, this model is equipped with a solid caseback, so I have not seen its appearance, but I think that it corresponds to the last iteration of the base p.5000, eIf you look from behind, I won't add a photo.
REP of this model also does not exist at the moment.
Unlike 6497, it has 72 hours of power reserve, and a stop second, as well as a modification with a second hand, with the same index.
Both factories used standard A6497 and the HWF is sterile, unlabeled according to OP.X / XI.
This is of little importance, because, as it was mentioned, all models had a solid caseback, and besides the movement, there were generally enough claims to watches.
Interestingly, they took care of the CP, which has a slightly different appearance, including on the second hand, which somehow does not stop at the time setting position.
I don’t see any sense in photographs, everyone already knows what the A6497 looks like.
There are a number of complex gen movts., With HW and various complications
- P.2004: chronograph monopulsant with many modifications.
- P.2005: tourbillon with various complications.
All these movements do not have full or even approximate execution options.
- P.2006: chronograph 8 days with control buttons on the back.
If you have a rep whose gen should have such a movement, no doubt this is something wrong, and probably not expensive.
2.2. Automatic wind
- It is interesting to note that it is used in some models that look similar to similar ones, but with the P.9010, and usually this entails a change in the shape of the case, even if they are of the same type.
- It is used both in models with a solid caseback and with a transparent one.
- For the rest, I recommend that you go back and read about OP.XXXIV, because they are one and the same.
VSF in models that should use it uses its P.9000 clones, which do not differ much in diameter, but are almost 2 times thicker (8mm versus 4.2), which is why, in addition to appearance (Design is different, but the same position balance wheels, and rotor design), in models with a transparent caseback, the thickness of the reps ends up being too large.
The dial layout is retained, but the P.900 also lacks the specific features of the P.9000 with an independent hour hand, and is operated like the 7750.
But the markings on these P.9000 clones correspond to P.900.
GEN:
This is a movement with a non-symmetrical rotor, and a power reserve of 3 days.
It is quite large in size but low in thickness, making it suitable for use only in 45mm models, both the luminor due and the radiomir 1940.
This is the only movement panerai in this lineup, but there are several modifications that I will mention.
Used in models with a transparent caseback.
- In the basic version of P.4000, these are 3 hands, date, GMT hand at 12 o'clock, and a day / night indicator above the second hand, as in P.2002.
In some models, the gmt-related function may not be available.
Used on models such as PAM572, PAM573, PAM995, PAM674, etc.
PHOTO GEN (P.4000):
- P.4000 / 10, modification, as for other calibers, means a skeletonized version of the design, and the absence of date and gmt, only 3 hands remain.
This time it was used not only in gold PAM675, but for example in albeit narrowly limited, but steel PAM751
PHOTO GEN (P.4000 / 10):
- P.4001, this is a variant with a PR indicator on the back of the movement, which was used, for example, on PAM998 or PAM657, but has a modification with 3 hands, without GMT on PAM943.
PHOTO GEN (P.4001):
- P.4002, this is a modification that has a PR indicator on the dial, instead of the movement bridge. It is mandatory in the 45mm due and 1940 models, as the most complex, for example, in PAM628, PAM999, PAM946, PAM944, etc.
PHOTO GEN (P.4002):
REP:
Of course, this is a rather difficult movt., For rep factories, but there are several variants with which some models from the line equipped with this caliber, or derivatives, were produced.
- First of all, we need to distinguish the PAM572 from the V9F factory, which was equipped with a P.4000 clone. It resembles the ST4020, which is usually used in replica watches with a side rotor, but the position of the balance wheel, its mounting bridges, the position of the rotor are different and correspond to gen P.4000.
There are many other nuances of the appearance that are no longer similar to gen, but these are minor details. In general, this is the most accurate that can be obtained for this model.
PHOTO REP (P.4000 clone V9F):
- The V6F factory, which mainly made radiomirs and luminor due at that time, and also experimented with attempts to copy manufactory movements, did not act unambiguously, and in its PAM572 / PAM573 it put its P.2002 / 7 the same as the PAM384, only without gmt and PR functions, and didn't even change the markings on bridges.
It has the correct dial layout, but given the transparent caseback, it doesn't look right at all from the back.
PHOTO REP (V6F P.4000 = P.2002 / 7):
- There are many low quality reps for models based on p.4000, DHgate format, with different seagulls depending on functionality, for example ST2555 for the simplified P.4000 / 1, ST2530 for the P.4002.
All of them, of course, do not look correct, and use the standard rotor decoration, with which they are used as a replacement for any manufactured AW pams, therefore, there is no point in additional photos.
GEN:
The first in-house AW panerai appeared in 2009 to complement a range of ETA-based borrowed calibers such as OP.III in a more expensive collection.
All models with this movement were used in new, at that time 1950 cases.
Used both in 42, 44mm models and in 47mm, both luminors and radiomirs, both with transparent caseback and solid.
The Movement had a number of specific points in its operation, despite the fact that it resembled the 7750-P1 in function and dial layout, the P.9000 has an independent hour hand that can be moved by leaps for 1 hour without rotating the minute hand.
This is also used to set the date, it needs to be scrolled every day.
Has a stop second, and resets the second hand to "0" when set to time setting mode.
(Not sure if this feature is available on P.9000s from all years of production, but modifications like P.9001/2/3 have this function )
All these qualities have made this movement very widespread, there are so many very different models on it that were produced for a long time, before the transition to the P.9010.
Also had a number of modifications, which we will now see.
- The base P.9000 had 3 hands and a date similar to OP.III. Used in a huge variety of models, for example: PAM312, PAM382, PAM388, PAM393
In fact, it was the only entry-level manufacture automatic movement, and most models were supplied with it.
PHOTO GEN (P.9000):
- P.9001 is a modification that had a GMT function of 12 hours, and a specific outlook specific PR indicator on the reverse side.
An interesting solution is to make a GMT hand that goes through the circle of the dial in 12 hours, by analogy with P.2002, but without a day / night indicator, which distinguishes it from OP.VIII which was used in GMT models before. This is very controversial from a functional point of view, but it is convenient from an aesthetic point of view, since the GMT hand matches the size of the hour, and allows you to hide one after the other, and they will run in parallel, as a result, it turns out that the appearance of the dial is cleaner, which is often demanded by fans of the brand.
Examples of models: PAM320, PAM441, PAM719, PAM688
PHOTO GEN (P.9001):
P.9001 / b
This is a modification of the P.9001 for the ceramic black PAM438 Tuttonero, which is made with a black DLC coating. It is worth noting that the PAM441 model without a bracelet has a standard P.9001, but a tinted sapphire crystal on the backcase.
There are no functional differences in this modification.
PHOTO GEN (P.9001 / b):
P.9002 - modification with the function of the PR indicator on the dial, in the usual place, as on the OP.IX, from the back it looks the same as the P.9000, except for the markings.
Examples of models: PAM507, PAM321, PAM537, PAM329.
PHOTO GEN (P.9002):
The P.9003 is an analogue of the P.9001, but the GMT 24H function, as on the old 7750 derivatives, and a different design of the PR indicator on the back.
On the only PAM531 I know of, not only the inner dial markings were made in the style of PAM088, but also a set of hands.
In general, the model reflects the PANERAI style of that time as much as possible, but based on the old-school layout and functionality.
PHOTO GEN (P.9003):
REP
As already mentioned, models with P.9000 and derivatives were the main automatic range of PANERAI, therefore, the question of the need for an adequate analogue was very urgent.
For all the time there is a huge number of variants of the P.9000 analogs, and its modifications, and if you look, for example, PAM312 in the ALE PAM GUIDE, the entire evolution of the replicas of this movement is described in as much detail and in detail there.
I will highlight only the main things:
All types of rep movement can be divided into 3 main groups based on the used Asian movt:
- A7750
It could have been used for the P.9000, as well as for the P.9001, using a modification with the GMT function, but the GMT hand format was 24H, not 12, as on gen, but for the P.9003 it was perfect from this point of view.
There is no functional variant for the P.9002 based on the 7750.
The main drawback is the incorrect balance position at "11" o'clock instead of "7" o'clock at GEN, as well as other adjustment functions.
There are many options for the appearance.
It may not have decorations except for the rotor, in accordance with the GEN on the first versions, for example PAM312, or PAM359.
With decorative plate, it was produced by ZF, V6F, SF in inverted and non-inverted form.
In the case of P.9001 and P.9003, they may or may not have a decorative PR indicator.
It is important to note that models copying the P.9000 with A7750 and a decorative plate or solid caseback support the lie of replacing the A7750 with SWISS.
All of them have differences about which enough has already been written for today, and this does not greatly affect their assessment these days.
PHOTO REP (P.9000 - A7750 + deco plate):
PHOTO REP (P.9000 - A7750 w / o deco plate):
PHOTO REP (P.9001 / b - A7750 + deco plate):
- Seagull
Could be used for the P.9000 using the ST2555, and in this case was a complete replacement.
For P.9001 using ST2557, but also 24H GMT, as with 7750, and not as in gen.
For the P.9002, the ST2530 is used, which has a functional PR, but has a button at 10 o'clock to set the date, therefore it was used mainly in cheap replicas, although often not so bad ones, for example, the PAM507.
Functionally it is suitable for P.9003 with 24H GMT function.
In general, Seagull for the P.9000 / P.9001 was a full-fledged alternative to the A7750, while it is much cheaper (~ -100 $ from the A7750 version), and the balance wheel is located at "6" hours, which is not like GEN, but slightly closer than 11 o'clock on the A7750.
In terms of appearance, you can find cheap DHgate versions without a decorative plate, only with a rotor in the style of P.9000, also variants from V6F and ZF with decorative plates, both inverted and not inverted, today there is even a modern PAM441 from XF with decorative plate using ST2557.
Also, as with the A7750, you just need to determine that it is seagull and, by the presence or absence of decoration, understand the level, this is enough for today.
PHOTO REP (P.9000 - ST2555 w / o deco plate):
PHOTO REP (P9001 - ST2557 + deco plate):
PHOTO REP (P.9002 - ST2553 + deco plate):
- P.9000 clone
Made by the SF factory with gen functions, but the position of the balance wheel at "3" hours and the shift of the second hand, closer to the center of the dial. These violations made it not very necessary, and not very popular, but it should be said, because these models, in particular, PAM569 or PAM382 (there were several others) can be found.
PHOTO REP (P.9000 SF CLONE):
The main and most widespread clone of the P.9000 was made by the VSF factory, which conquered the rep panerai market, and keeps it to this day.
Yes, this clone can be distinguished externally, in the time setting mode, but otherwise, it is very good and is the best option for the P.9000.
For P.9001 it was in series, V1 with 24H GMT function and V2 with 12H.
It's a shame, but for the P.9003 in PAM531 it was only with the V2 clone, had the correct marking and design of the PR indicator, but the GMT function is 12 hours, instead of 24.
Regarding the VSF clone and its derivatives, a few fundamental reservations must be made:
- There is no VSF clone for P.9002.
- On P.9001, P.9001 / b, P.9003, the PR indicator on the back does not work, only decorative.
- There is no function to reset the seconds when setting the time.
- It repeats most of the functions and appearance, but is not structurally similar to gen.
- It can always be quickly distinguished externally from gen by looking at the rotor mount.
- At the moment, it is a proven movement, with sufficient reliability and maintainability for an Asian, although there are problems with the western parts.
PHOTO REP (P.9000 VSF):
PHOTO REP (P.9001 VSF):
PHOTO REP (P.9001 / b VSF):
PHOTO REP (P.9003 VSF):
Here it is necessary to give a small conclusion on the P.9000 and its forms.
To adequately assess your REP, you first need to look for a gen-caliber rotor and bridges.
- If not, then either this is a very old replica or dhgate quality.
If so, look at the position of the balance wheel:
- "6" o'clock is seagull (V6F / ZF)
- "11" o'clock is 7750 (V6F / ZF / SF)
- "7" o'clock is a VSF clone
- "3" o'clock is an SF clone
Further differentiation on the version does not have serious practical significance today, because this already determines both the cost and quality of your REP, but if you wish, you can easily carry it out using the PAM GUIDE on the example of any old model on the P.9000, including all variants during the production period of various versions, for example, PAM312.
GEN:
In 2017, a new movement was released, replacing the p.9000 across the panerai range.
Functionally, nothing has changed, but the thickness has become noticeably smaller, 6mm, versus 7.9mm on the P.9000.
The design has also changed at the back; the balance wheel is already on 2 mountings, and its position is at "11" o'clock, and not at "7" as before.
Due to the reduced thickness, all subsequent and new models received new cases, 42, 44 and 47mm, with different promotions and less thickness.
You can clearly see the difference between PAM382 and PAM671 as an example, or PAM312 and PAM1312.
Previously produced models also usually received some restyling.
The P.9010 was initially used primarily in transparent caseback models, but in recent years, more and more solid caseback models have appeared.
In the new generation, the P.9010 on solid caseback models no longer has a stop-second function, and, instead of a full-fledged satin finish, perlage, and polished chamfers, it is completely sandblasted. I have no photographs, but there are many confirmations of this information in various places on the Internet.
As a result, this movement became the new workhorse of PANERAI, for mass-produced, all-in-house models.
It has again a certain number of modifications for the main demanded functions.
PHOTO GEN (P.9010):
P.9011
By analogy with P.9000 - P.9001 this is a modification for 12H GMT function and PR indicator on the back, used in models such as PAM1320, or PAM1033.
Interestingly, there is information that in models with a solid backcase P.9010 / GMT, and not P.9011, which most likely may be due to the option without trim, and that it would be logical, without the PR indicator on the back of the movement, the use of which on models with solid caseback is at least impractical.
PHOTO GEN (P.9011):
P.9012
Well, as always, the variant of the model with a PR indicator on the dial, realized according to the position and principle of indication, is already traditional for PANERAI.
You can see how this is implemented, for example, on the PAM1321.
PHOTO GEN (P.9012):
REP.
Since this is not a niche, but one of the most widespread movts., In the panerai line, it was necessary to repeat it.
The simplest and fastest solution was to reuse the decorative plate on top of the existing movts., And this time it is optimal to return to the A7750, because it has the same balance wheel position as gen p.9010.
A seagull closer to the P.9000 has become less useful, as has the long-awaited P.9000 VSF clone.
The biggest problem is that none of the movts. Could provide the necessary thickness for almost all new cases.
This problem is relevant to this day.
Let's see what we have, following the same principle as with the P.9000:
Seagull
- ST2555 for P.9010, ST2557 for P.9011, ST2553 for P.9012.
- Not successful, due to the position of the balance wheel at "6", instead of "11" on gen
- Usually much cheaper than the A7750 model.
- V6F / XF / ZF have produced the best models on this basis, with a decorative plate that looks very believable.
- Cheap versions of DHgate, factories like King, made mostly without decorative plates, including models with PR and GMT.
PHOTO REP (ST2555 + deco plate):
A7750
- Were the best option for repeating P.9010
- Supports swiss A7750 replacement
- Correct position of the balance wheel at "11" o'clock
- Manufactured by V6F / ZF / XF factories with a decorative plate similar to the Seagull models.
- There were only P.9010 analogues.
- Of course they don't have gen functions.
- Unfortunately, the thickness is not correct.
PHOTO REP (A7750 + deco plate):
Clone P.9010, P.9011
- Manufactured by VSF only
- Are clones of P.9000 with modified markings, in accordance with P.9010
- The position of the balance wheel is "7" o'clock, instead of "11" on gen P.9010.
- Bridge design and appearance movt., Other.
- Not the correct thickness, although the closest one exists at the moment.
- Functions P.9000 and P.9010 correspond, so everything is correct except for resetting the seconds.
- For the new version of P.9010 used on models with a solid backcase, the functions are not correct, because gen, unlike a clone, does not have a stop second.
- The P.9011 clone is also a P.9001 clone, with a redesigned PR indicator on the back, which is more reminiscent of the P.9003.
PHOTO REP (Clone VSF P.9010 = P.9000):
PHOTO REP (Clone VSF P.9011 = P.9001):
I will also duplicate a small conclusion for P.9010
- We check the presence of decorations and markings on the bridges and the rotor.
If it is not there, or it is only on the rotor, it is most likely a cheap DHgate rep.
- Check the position of the balance wheel:
"11" o'clock - A7750
"6" o'clock - Seagull
"7" o'clock - VSF P.9000 clone.
The conclusion is that functionally and in terms of thickness, the best is the P.9000 clone from VSF, if appearance is more important, then the A7750 version with a decorative plate.
For models with a solid backcase, a clone is definitely better, but the functions will not be repeated correctly.
- P.2003: Analogue of p.2002 but with AW and 10 days.
- P.9100: flyback chronograph with control buttons on the left side.
- P.9200: analogous to P.9100, but without flyback function, also with buttons on the left side of the case, and used in models with.
The situation with complex mechanisms is again the same; it will be either a quartz chronograph with fake pushers, or any movt. that will perform random functions, all that is necessary, and in general, this is not a desirable purchase.
Conclusion.
That's all, actually. I tried to bring in everything more or less interesting here. Of course, I could have missed something through inattention, or not knowing, in addition to what I did not consciously mention, but I think after reading everything, you will have a certain idea of what is set in your rep panerai.
Of course, there are many completely inappropriate movements in low-quality reps, and on many very old models, you can probably find absolutely any movt., For example, pam111 with AW ST2555 for DHgate - this is normal, but that's why I wrote about gen as well, so that in case you didn’t find an indication of your movt., common sense would help and suggest whether it’s good that you have it installed there or not.
Also, we must not forget that more often, the more perfect and modern the movt., The higher the overall quality of the rep, with the exception of some particulars, and again, depending on which flaws you accept more easily.
For example, I like the PAM351 on the A7750 with a decorative plate more from the point of view of the dial than the VSF with the P.9000 clone, but these are nuances and personal preferences.
I am aware that the volume is not small, many moments are covered selectively, the principle of the story has changed to describe different movements, and the writing is unanimous throughout, which in general does not make this story the most convenient, but this was all done primarily to maintain constructiveness, logic and attempts to repeat famous topics as little as possible, especially since 95% of what is described here was discussed long before my appearance on the forum.
Therefore, I repeat, this is a description, but if someone really sees the meaning in this, it can be transformed into a more concise manual.
Anyway, if this doesn't come in handy for you personally, I hope you have had some pleasant time reading.
Thank you for your patience and attention, be healthy,
KOT.
I often see questions in order to find out which movt. Is set in a particular rep, and so on.
Of course, with a careful and consistent search, you can find the answer to any of these questions, also, of course, all the information is PAM GUIDE, but nevertheless, I decided to summarize in one post all the information necessary to understand the issue related to REP PAERAI movements in the whole.
Of course, all that the reps industry does is an attempt to repeat gen, so as I do in other posts, I will start from what exists in gen models, and how it is implemented in reps.
When defining your movt., It is still necessary to at least define the model of your watch, and what movement the gen of this model should have, either find them in the list, or the image, scrolling through everything.
This is still some time tart that will need to be donated, instead of opening the next topic.
I will warn you in advance, I do not consider all gen movements, because there are a lot of them (almost a hundred), and a very large part do not have adequate rep analogues, you can read about gen on a lot of specialized resources.
Also, I am forming a sequence, I use logic that seems to me to be successful for classification, and not that it is extremely convenient for determining exactly your watch, with which you do not know what to do, but I promise that if you read everything, then you will have a decent understanding of the theoretical part in order to navigate independently.
So what do we have.
In general, the panerai movements can be divided into two main parts:
- Borrowed movements
- Manufacture movements
Borrowed ones have been used from the very beginning of the history of modern panerai (I deliberately do not consider the vintage period, because this is an area of highly professional research that any lover of vintage pams must carry out himself), and conditionally they can be divided into two main groups:
- Movts., borrowed from ETA
- Movts., borrowed from other manufacturers.
All borrowed movts., Are named OP. ***, and are movements that the Richmont group buys from major manufacturers, makes changes, sometimes minor design changes, sometimes only markings and finishes, and can be used in watches of different brands of the group, but in particular , in PANERAI.
What changes do they make, do they do it themselves, or is it the work of parent industries on their order, these are nuances that can be discussed.
The important thing is that there is a basic movt., For example ETA 6497 of which Panerai has OP.I, OP.II, OPX, OP.XI and so on.
Besides the ETA, be it the 7750 or 6497, there are tons of other movts., From other manufacturers like Zenith, based on the El Primero chronograph, the OP.VI was made, which was used in the mass of 40mm Panerai chronographs, in the early 2000s, for example, pam060, or PAM077, the first tourbillon to use the Gerard Peregaux GP9907 caliber without even assigning an internal name to it, or if we take the more common Cal.877 JLC with a hand wind and 8 days, and a PR indicator on the back, used, for example in radiomir pam190.
There are actually a lot of such examples, often they are extremely exotic, or have serious complications, and are not subject to rep factories, so in this guide we will consider only those that had a more or less acceptable analogue.
In fact, throughout its early days, panerai used ETA movements for mainstream models with basic features, most of which have been replicated, and sophisticated high-end complications from Zenith, GP, JLC, Minerva, Lemania, Chezard and whatever you can think of. which, with a few exceptions, which we will consider, it was not possible to repeat.
Also, there were examples of the use of the historical Cortebert 616 and Angelus sf240, but these are rare examples, which we will touch on later.
Since there are really quite a few of them (about 35), they, in turn, can also be formally divided for ease of consideration, into hand wind, automatic wind, simple complications like gmt, PR, or a chronograph, or serious complications, for example, a split second , tourbillon, or independent second hand.
The second main group is the manufacture movements, the designation of which begins with P. **** and already in Arabic numerals, not roman.
Since 2005, and Cal. P.2002, in-house calibers with hand winds appeared, and since 2008, the P.9000 began the history of automatic wind movement, which evolve, multiply, modify, and take more and more segment of the panerai range, taking it for most of the present day. ...
Since there are even more of them (more than 50), they can be conditionally divided into manual wind, for example P.3000 or P.2002 and automatic, for example P.9000, or P.9010, as well as their derivatives with added functions, for example P .9012 with PR indicator.
To understand a little, here you need to digress a little to the naming logic:
Basic in-house calibers have a definite first number, whichParadise determines the type, design, dimensions:
For example P.9 ***, or P.3 ***.
Further, there are numbers after the fraction, which usually mean a modification of the original caliber, supplemented by a specific function.
For example:
P.2002 is just 8 days movt., With 3 barrels, hand wind, second hack, and second hand reset.
And its modification P.2002 / 1 additionally has a GMT 12 o'clock function, a linear PR indicator, and a day / night indicator parallel to the second hand, for example, in the classic PAM233.
It can also be a letter rather than a number, for example P.2002 / E which is used in models with an equation of time function such as the PAM656, PAM670 or PAM601 among all other complications, and the PR hand on the back.
Another example, modifications, is P.2002 / 9, which is used in PAM368 and PAM346, for example, and differs from the base P.2002 primarily by the presence of a PR indicator on the back side, but at the same time one model has a date indicator, and on the other is not there, despite the fact that the name of the caliber is the same.
In general, panerai shows that, as always, there are a lot of exceptions in classification issues, and we will encounter them in the process and with modifications of the P.3000 and P.5000, which have differences in design and function, with the same name.
Also, some modifications change the last digit within the main 4-digit caliber code, for example P.5000 is HW, 8 days PR, 3 barrels, and P.5001 is a modification with a PR indicator on the back.
Changes in the third digit are most often a change in the movt generation, for example, the P.9000 is an automatic movt., With 2 barrels and 3 days of PR, and the P.9010 is a movement with the same functionality, but newer, with different dimensions. but with the preservation of all functions.
The second digit usually reflects major changes in functionality and design with a common base and qualities, for example, the P.9000 is a simple automatic with a date, the P.9100 is a Flyback chronograph based on it.
As a result, after a little familiarization with what panerai used in his models, we can form a structure of the movements classification that follows from this:
1. Borrowed.
1.1. ETA
1.1.1. Hand wind
1.2.1. Automatic wind
- Derivatives 7750
- Others
1.2. Other manufacturers.
1.2.1. Hand wind
- Simple
- Complex
1.2.2. Automatic wind
- Simple
- Complex
2.Manufactory.
2.1. Hand wind
- Simple
- Complex
2.2. Automatic wind
- Simple.
- Complex
In fact, this is the most simplified classification, due to the fact that we have a primary rep context, and in fact, many categories will not even be considered and will not have adequate examples and references, for obvious reasons that the capabilities of rep factories rather limited due to the range of Chinese movts available for use in inexpensive replicas.
Nevertheless, in my opinion, this is a necessary basis for understanding what is happening and the possibility of understanding further.
Well, in general terms, I hope everything is clear, now let's fill in this classification and see what we have and in what capacity.
1. Borrowed.
Like any "newly minted" luxury brand within a group of companies, before getting the budgets to develop its own movts, it had to prove the right to live here with what you can buy.
It was possible to buy, like from factories producing movements and components, borrow from other brands of the group, or buy from others directly.
As I mentioned above, many movts., Used on a permanent basis, received designations with Roman numerals (34 pieces, of which a few are not used in wristwatches at all), some are not.
Of the entire list, I will consider only the main ones that I see the point of mentioning.
1.1. ETA.
Of course, the easiest and cheapest entry was through a mass producer of reliable and not picky movts., Which also differed in a small price.
All used ETA movts., Have a special finish or even a panerai style bridge design, some structural differences (for example, an extended shelf at the point where it rests on the platinum on 6497), and sometimes a specific configuration (increased frequency 6497/2), and of course higher grade and sizing according to brand standards, or independent (COSC)
1.1.1. Hand wind
It is said that it was Panerai who brought the hand wind fashion back to the world of luxury watches, where at that time there was an overwhelming number of automatic watches in this segment.
Necessity stems from historical roots and general form factor.
Panerai started with this, and there are many models that require regular hand winding.
Since historically, panerai is a large watch with a hand wind, then already in the pre-v era of the appearance of bettarini models, the choice of the first and main movement fell on ETA6497.
It's a simple, straightforward, reliable, large, cheap movement that fit both functionally and in size.
2 or 3 hands, a power reserve of about 2 days, is what was deemed sufficient, and its relationship to the Cortebert 616 also gave historical references.
Therefore, for ~ 25 years, we all got used to it, we love it and we know it.
It appeared in 1993 with the first luminor bettarini, but I do not consider this stage until 1997, this is more material for the homage forum.
From 1997 until 2018 until the transition to the in-house P.6000 was made, there were 5 main calibers that we are interested in, 4 of which had 2 design options, and 2 were also a destro orientation design, and in addition there were 13 different variations.
Difficulties are a little added by the fact that they are not signed, i.e., among the inscriptions on it, there is no name of a specific caliber, and since many models have a solid caseback, and even their owners do not always open them, confusion is possible, but we will now figure it out ...
As for rep, it's a big and generally happy story.
This movt. Was not difficult to do, it went through all the stages of development, thanks to which a whole class of cheap Chinese watches appeared on the A6497, and the price can vary from $ 35 standard on Ali to hundreds of $$$ for Marlin modded copies.
Much has been written, done, produced.
I'll go through just a few facts that seem interesting to me to read the rest, there are so many good topics.
- Rep 6497 is interchangeable with swiss and gen movt.
- There are old A6497-1 with a low rhythm and more modern A6497-2 with a high, corresponding to gen.
- SWISS 6497-2 is quite difficult to find and it costs significantly more than its low-frequency version. ETA did not retail.
- When considering REP movt., It is important that the design matches the respective panerai caliber and design.
- There were factory Swiss and hybrid movts., Including those from DSN, but they more often had serious defects in appearance, and are always low-frequency, also more often have an incorrect damping system for the balance. The easiest way to distinguish them is by the straight spokes of the balance wheel.
- Y incablok, this is the system of depreciation of the balance, which is used by gen panerai, but also copied on modern Asian 6497. The older ones had I incabloc. You can read more about this in sticky topics on 6497 in the panerai section, but the important thing is that this is the last actual improvement on movt. Elements, and yes, even if it is a Y shape, it is still not swiss, and this can be understood with a close examination with the naked eye. ...
- The main conclusion: modern A6497, for example, used in noob pam111, or pam127 is good enough not to find differences for an inexperienced user, but read about the Marlin modifications, and you will understand how much more needs to be done to get closer to gen.
OP.I
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- The first version produced since 1997.
- The design of the bridges is in line with the original ETA and has 2 main bridges.
- Used exclusively in solid caseback models.
- Does not have a lebidine neck regulator.
- Has 2 design options; paneraipanerai and the Geneva wave, the transition takes place around 2006.
- Since he does not have a second hand, he does not have a C.O.S.C.
PHOTO GEN (New design):
- REP:
Although, the latest HF, V6F more often had the correct design and very gen-like appearance, despite the fact that no one was going to look at it. I respect them for this effort.
- Speaking of late reps, in the second design with the Geneva wave, the only thing worth noting is, as a rule, the absence of a Y incablock, even if otherwise they are executed correctly.
- There are old design reps with poor engraving quality and overall workmanship.
- There are Swiss and hybrids with poor appearance and low rhythm.
- There are good modern ones, but without Y incablock.
PHOTO REP (new design):
OP.II
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- Used in Marina models with second hand.
- Also has 2 design options, but also, each of them has a version for destro models, with inverted lettering.
- The only use case with transparent caseback - PAM036
PHOTO GEN (Old design):
- REP:
- Over the years, reps have been produced with both designs.
- With the old design, the only decent option is the DSN, which was installed in his PAM036, the later version was the only “decent” version of the old design.
PHOTO REP (old design):
OP.X
- Examples of models: PAM113, PAM232, PAM116, PAM219 Etc.
- GEN:
- Changed the design of bridges, now it is unique for panerai and there are 3 of them.
- Added "swan neck" regulator for more precise adjustment.
- Designed for base models, has 2 arms.
- 2 design options; the old one is paneraipanerai and the new one with Geneva stripes.
- The old design was produced around 2002-2005, the second version was produced until the end.
- Both designs have an option for destro models.
PHOTO GEN (New design):
- REP:
PHOTO REP (NEW Design):
OP.XI
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
PHOTO GEN (OLD DESIGN):
- REP:
- As in the case of OP.II, the current issue is frequency.
- Over the many years of its existence, it has seriously evolved, and had countless options for its appearance, from completely ridiculous to quite acceptable.
There are enough sticky topics where you can read all this, and I will not dwell on the specifics, differences and device.
You can find replicas of both the old design and the new, as poor performance with glued plates on which the engraving is stamped, and good in the latest versions of pam111 and pam127.
It can be Swiss movts., From the factory, or hybrids, it can be modified, it can be everything. This is described in detail and sentenced in many places, I will not stop.
PHOTO REP (OLD DESIGN, quality in different years from different manufacturers):
OP.XXIX
- Example models:
- GEN:
Most expected to see OP.II in it, but for probably embarrassing reasons that PANERAI chose not to name, all watches in this edition received the standard ETA6497.
In order not to make excuses, PANERAI simply gave this caliber an official name after the fact and was never used again.
PHOTO GEN:
- REP:
1.2.1. Automatic wind
Despite all the traditional component of panerai, automatic watches are essential in the line of any brand, and pam is no exception.
Panerai used many borrowed automatic calibers, but the main supplier for the mass models, as with the HW, was ETA.
A number of their movements have been used, not all of which are important in the context of the discussion of reps, but more below.
Derivatives 7750
Most of the most common automatic pams on borrowed movts were based on 7750.
There are many reasons, and besides the cost, reliability, the ability to refine and high accuracy, with the right setting, I would highlight the fact that this movt has a constant second hand at "9" hours, which makes the appearance of the dial very similar to the classic 6497 models who captivated the audience with their appearance.
Also worth noting is the following: as most people know, the ETA7750 is a chronograph.
Its modification, for the usual marina automatic, like the best-selling panerai of all time, the PAM104, is called the 7750-1P.
In fact, the chronograph module, respectively the accumulators, and the central second hand have been removed, and as a result we get a form factor typical for a wristwatch.
Further, at the request of panerai, they can add additional functions such as GMT, PR indicator, or completely unusual ones, for example, an electronic depth gauge for the PAM193, or even a perpetual calendar for the FER015 / 16.
This combination of qualities is the main reason for this original ETA caliber.
REP:
ETA 7750/3 clones have been around for a long time and they just needed to be optimized for the specific features of the PANERAI models as well. With some functions it succeeded, with some it failed.
You can read in detail about this movt., In the technical section of RWI, but I will highlight the main aspects:
- The old (Before 2010) 7750s were low-frequency and much less reliable, from that period all the "horror stories" about the unreliable 7750 have gone. Most of the Noob / HF we use today are good and reasonably reliable, like any other Chinese movt.
- The A7750 is not 100% similar in all details to SWISS, for example, the design of the DW drive gear, and there are many such examples, you can read more about this in the technical section.
- Panerai А7750 should have their own specific DW font, it is not similar to the standard one, neither Asian nor SWISS.
- Most of the A7750 / 3 is almost directly interchangeable with SWISS, only a GEN or REP panerai DW rearrangement is required, and a small adaptation (by tenths of a mm., The fonts of the chronograph dials.
- You can get a Swiss 7750 chronograph, remove the module, and use it in a rep model using only the date and second hand at "9".
- Since the appearance of the P.9000 clones, the A7750 was used instead of this caliber, and not only in models where the GEN must have this movt.
- Models with A7750 and clones p.9000 cannot be replaced with a direct one, and sometimes cannot be replaced at all.
OP.III (DATE)
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- Had 2 designs of the rotor, and the bridge, similar to calibers on 6497, earlier with paneraipanerai and more modern with Geneva wave.
- Applies to models with solid caseback.
- Since 2018 it has been replaced by OP.XXX, featuring a large power reserve and no stop seconds function.
- With the appearance of the in-house P.9000, similar in arrangement of elements, but different in characteristics, the use of OP.III did not stop, they occupied different niches in the model range.
PHOTO GEN (Design 1):
PHOTO GEN (Design 2):
- REP:
- Also produced in both designs, but due to the solid caseback, often the design did not match the model or series.
- There were old low-frequency OP.IIIs, mainly in replicas before 2010, later only full-fledged, modern ones were used.
- Interchangeable with Swiss 7750, provided all chronograph assemblies are removed.
- Even the latest and most beautiful movts., Manufactured by HF and NOOB, have elements directly on the surface that distinguish them from GEN, for example, the rotor bearing and the absence of a gold engraving of the movt serial number.
PHOTO REP(Design 1):
PHOTO REP(Design 2):
PHOTO REP(NON DECORATED):
ST2555
Cheaper versions still use the Seagull movement st2555, which completely repeats the functions and arrangement of 7750 date elements, but costs much less.
- On the cheaper versions, most often it has a standard specific date font, by which it is not difficult to notice it.
- Usually used on replicas of lower quality, I do not know of examples of the equivalent use of A7750 and ST2555 in rep models, the gen of which OP.III should have.
PHOTO REP(Non decorated):
PHOTO REP(decorated):
- I also want to add that there are many other movts. That tried to replace 7750, but either very old or not very high quality, for example DG2813, but this is not very widespread today, so I will not get stuck on it.
PHOTO REP:
OP.VIII (GMT)
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- This movt., Has an add-on moduleGMT instead of chronograph.
- The GMT hand completes a circle in 24 hours.
- In fact, it replaced the first automatic GMT based on ETA2893-2, used in PAM023, PAM029, PAM063, with a central second hand.
- Was replaced by OP.XXXI as part of the transition of all models based on the ETA7750 with the transition for example new refs, for example from PAM00088 to PAM01088.
- I do not know of examples of this movt., Other brands, I may be wrong, but it seems that it was only used for panerai.
- Also, had 2 design options.
PHOTO GEN (Design 1):
PHOTO GEN (Design 2):
- REP:
- Most of the models with this movt. Were manufactured by HF, except for the PAM297, PAM088 from NOOB. It was believed that it was originally copied by order of this factory.
- I've never seen a SWISS 7750 on sale with this functionality, and I'm not sure if it ever existed, not only in ETA retail, but also for other budget brands, so not only factory, but also custom builds with rep pams with this function, I have not noticed.
- In inexpensive versions, often complete with an incorrect transparent caseback, you may see seagull ST2557, or a similar older Chinese movt. They have never been used in equivalent quality versions, and are also usually easily identified frontally, from the standard DW.
- In older versions, before Asian movts., With the gmt module, you might have come across the A7750 date, with a non-functional GMT hand.
- There is only one example of PAM088 VSF, where instead of A7750 the clone P.9001 was used, which is fundamentally incorrect, primarily because the clone of the manufactory movt. Has a 12 hour GMT function, in accordance with the markings on the dial, while time, like gen OP.VIII, like A7750 GMT - 24 hours.
As the participant's experience in the thread of discussion of this model shows, it is not possible to replace them indirectly. DW also differs in size.
PHOTO REP (7750HF DESIGN 2):
OP.IX (PR)
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- Came to replace the ETA2892-A2 with the PR SOPROD 9040 module, which was installed in the first PR PANERAI models: PAM027, PAM028, PAM057.
- When upgrading, it was replaced by OP.XXXII, for example, for model PAM01090.
- As with other ETA based automatic movts, the advent of an in-house caliber with a similar function did not stop production, but narrowed the range.
- Destro's use of this movt. Looks really menacing.
PHOTO GEN:
- REP:
- There are relatively budget versions with ST2530 and PR working function, which, as in the case of previous calibers, had a standard incorrect DW, but unlike them, there were versions of higher quality in other aspects, with correct caseback and acceptable dials.
- The HF factory produced these models according to high quality standards for itself, but changed the A7750 date, while the PR arm was not functional and was simply glued.
- As a result, we don't have good reps with this movt.
- The photos don't make much sense, you just see another А7750 date in any of the designs, or ST2555 with or without engraving if you open the caseback.
OP.XII (Chrono)
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- The main panerai choronograph for 44+ mm models, after the end of the era of models with movts., Based on Zenith.
- Used only in models with a closed caseback.
- Setting the date not with a crown, but with a button at 10 o'clock, unlike the standard chronograph ETA7750.
- It was used in chronograph models with completely different dial layouts, including those without a date function, or 2 register models without a watch accumulator.
PHOTO GEN(Design 1):
PHOTO GEN (Design 2):
- REP:
- Until 2010, the A7753 variant was an exceptional rarity, and we mainly see automatic chronographs with the A7750, the button on the side of which is pressed but not functional, and the date is set using the crown.
They can usually be seen by the slightly sunken date in the window.
- In 2 register models, for example PAM288, rep movt was sometimes used., With HW - ST19, which has no automatic winding, but with solid caseback this is not visible, but the functions are the same. However, this does not eliminate the problem of the distance between the constant second hand and the chronograph minute counter, which made the v6f version uncompetitive.
It is also interesting with the rep PAM202 / 225, the GEN of which should have the basis of this caliber, but they do not have a date function, therefore the use of A7750 / 7753, in fact, does not matter, because the dial layout and functionality are, in fact, common.
- SWISS 7753 is interchangeable with Asian, usually for this you need to replace the standard DW with rep, and small hands have a difference inthe diameter of the seats by 0.05 mm, which is not a lot, and does not require serious modifications.
PHOTO REP(Design 1):
PHOTO REP(Design 2):
OP.XV
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
Frankly, I have never seen it inside, and I do not know what it looks like, but since there is a hand on the dial, and for its correct operation there is a special device, inside the case, we will assume that we just have movt., With an additional function.
- REP:
With your free hand, you just need to detach it from the actuator and fix it in the OFF position.
OP.XIX
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- Since the basis, as I mentioned, is 7750, and not 7753 as in conventional automatic chronographs, the date is set with a crown, the date setting buttons are not.
ALE wrote more about this movement in the PAM GUIDE, where the story is not that simple, but in this context, perhaps this is not so important, so I'll skip it.
- Came to replace OP.VI based on Zenith 400 used in pam060, for example.
- Applies to models with transparent caseback.
- What is FLYBACK and how it works no problem look at YOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/le9auRKvngo
PHOTO GEN:
- REP:
- However, since there is no second central second hand, like Rattrapante, without trying to reset it with the second button, without stopping the first one, it is rather difficult to understand that something is wrong, therefore, from a functional point of view, it is almost acceptable.
- Behind, under the transparent caseback, the differences of movt are perfectly visible, but thanks to the same rotor and balance wheel, this is not noticeable to those who do not know how gen movt should look correctly, and believe me, in practice, there are very few such people.
- Also, it should be noted that the date is set by the crown, and there is no date, so there will be no unnecessary complications that accompanied typical bettarini chronographs.
- The vast majority of the PAM212 and PAM256 that can be found today were made by HF and were based on the modern high-frequency 7750.
- There were old pre-2010 cartel replicas equipped with an older and less reliable low-rhythm 7750.
- There is a rep PAM212 with a quartz movement, but it will not be difficult to distinguish it, for obvious reasons, both from the back and from the front, due to incorrect intervals between the counters.
- There are many bad and often old reps that have incorruptible functions on the "3" and "9" hours counters, but we will not go into this in detail, it is enough to check how they work, and outwardly it does not look close at all.
PHOTO REP:
OP.XVIII
- Examples of models: PAM213, PAM214, PAM286, PAM332
- GEN:
- Just like OP.XIX does not have a button and the date is set with a crown.
- A good example of the versatility of the base 7750
- The principle of operation of this type of chronograph is worth looking at YOUTUBE for a complete understanding:
https://youtu.be/le9auRKvngo
PHOTO GEN:
- REP:
Also, it is worth noting that even in the case of GEN, this is a heavily modified, complex and not the most stable movt., And in the case of rep, all fears about the potential of its work should be multiplied by 10, therefore, if you become the happy owner of one , check how it works, show it on video to your friends, and do it a second time when it's time to sell it, because the likelihood of a breakdown can be high, as is the cost of potential maintenance.
However, this is the "museum" example of the rep industry when VSF decided to show what they can do.
- More widespread rep PAM213, PAM286, PAM332, PAM214 were saddled by the HF factory, and used the modern 7750, which were ordinary chronographs, with no additional function.
The 2 central second hands are glued to each other, and work as one, and the reset button on the opposite side is not functional, and is fixed, moreover, at the wrong length.
- You can also find quartz versions that I will not comment on.
- There are also cheap options without a chronograph, wheree sub dials perform any other functions of a randomly selected movt., for this purpose.
PHOTO REP (VSF):
PHOTO REP (HF):
OP.XXX (DATE)
OP.XXXI (GMT)
OP.XXXII (PR)
These are three movements that have come to replace OP.III, OP.VIII, OP.IX, which differ in their increased power reserve and the absence of stop seconds.
There are currently no reps with this movt., But given that they are all used in models with a solid caseback, and also do not differ in finishing, except for other inscriptions of the name, then this is probably not the most important thing.
- Others.
Not only was the 7750 used by panerai for their models, especially in the early periods. At the moment, probably almost all pams models with other ETA movts., This is quite a rarity, because the model is either old or included in some kind of special edition, such as the reissue of PAM028, or the special edition of PAM716.
However, for us, in the context of reps, only a few of them matter.
2892-A2 SOPROD 9040
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
The modified 2892 returned only in 2009 as part of a special reissue of the PAM028 L series.
As with the 7750, this ETA caliber has been modified with an additional module with a PR function, making it a rather rare piece in this version.
For all models in which it was used, solid caseback was also applied.
PHOTO GEN:
- REP:
“The reps of these models, sold by DSN, or HONPO, had a Swiss 2892-A2, with engraved or non-engraved panerai style rotor.
These are good, rare and expensive watches and high quality reps.
- Often, in the case of DSN, it required the replacement of DW from standard ETA to custom.
- Not often, but I have come across old replicas of poor quality with some Asian movt. I don't know about, with the pr indicator working, but located in an almost correct position, closer to the center of the dial.
In any case, this is something basic about Seagull, apparently inverted, and clearly does not meet our requirements for reps quality.
This is a rather expensive watch, so it is important to know what the movement should look like when checking, so it makes sense to consider several possible options with the position of the rotor in different sectors.
PHOTO REP (SWISS Honpo with deco ):
PHOTO REP (SWISS DSN sterile ):
PHOTO REP (SWISS DSN engraved without decoration ):
2893-2
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- It was also used at first, later it was replaced in mass models by OP.VIII, with the second hand at the 9 o'clock position.
- It also returned only in 2010 for the reissue of PAM029, as part of a special series.
- In all used models, it was hidden under a solid caseback.
PHOTO GEN:
- REP:
- SWISS 2893-2, as in the case of 2892-A2, was in the old PAM029 with a T dial, it can be decorated or not, in particular, with the famous spelling error on the rotor.
- SWISS 2836 was installed as an option and as standard, it can be brass or nickel-plated, with or without a perforated stop. A good choice that was cheaper and more affordable than the ETA2892 but didn't really make a difference until you look under the solid caseback.
- A2836 was used in the NOOB PAM029 M series with an L dial, for example, and was the cheapest and easiest way to get the functionality you need.
It can also be found in some DSNs.
PHOTO REP (SWISS 2893-2):
PHOTO REP (SWISS ETA2836/SW200):
PHOTO REP (A2836):
1.2. Other manufacturers.
In addition to ETA, other watch manufacturers also borrowed.
This was mainly the case for either early models or exotic features, sometimes due to the visual appeal of movt., And the increased value of the special edition, or simply for reasons of historical referencing.
1.2.1. Hand wind
- Simple
OP.XXV (Minerva 13-22)
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- Reliable movt., Which has proven its design genius for decades.
- He's really very handsome.
- Has historical roots, 2 register chronographs, with HW, linking it to mare mostrum, as one of the associative centers of the historical side of the brand.
- Used primarily in MN models, and several respectable radiomirs, to emphasize everything that was written above. This is a stylistic choice.
PHOTO GEN:
- REP:
Yes, its appearance and finish does not significantly reach gen movt., But the general type is similar in appearance, corresponds in functionality and supports the dial layout.
And what is not unimportant, it is not expensive and maintainable.
It is also worth noting that this is a movt., In which the use of a chronograph, of course, slightly increases the risk of breakage (hard buttons and soft levers), but does not accelerate wear of the working parts by its work. You can use it fully.
It can be decorated in different ways, so it is worth paying attention to the specific factory of the model manufacturer, but its very presence is already good.
- There are quartz versions of models whose gen this movt uses, but it is not difficult to determine.
PHOTO REP:
OP.XXVI
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- It has 2 registers and HW.
- As far as I know, it has an ETA7750 base modified for HW, but not Minerva.
- I do not really understand the manufacturer's motivation to do just that, and I assume that this is some kind of internal complexity of the company, or an attempt to gain new experience, which for some unknown reason for me was not crowned with success.
In fact, there is no reason not to provide it with a standard OP.XII, like many other chronographs, since the case allowed, but apparently my knowledge is not enough for this.
- REP:
- For the most common HF rep pam308, the automatic 7750 was used, which made it look accurate, but did not give the correct function, although it was a little more convenient.
In any case, removing the rotor where it is is always a little easier than adding it where it should not be, so this problem can be solved, at least from the point of view of the correspondence between gen and rep motv., Not to mention external manifestations and as a rep, especially since the solid caseback will not give an incorrect appearance of this solution.
PHOTO REP (ST19):
PHOTO REP (7750):
OP.XXVII
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- From a practical point of view, it is a low-frequency analogue of 6497 with a number of other design solutions, such as a variable inertia balance wheel, and an impressive historical appearance
- Due to its antique design and high quality finish, it was used for models of special series made of precious metals, or simply at a high price point, to maintain an overall vintage, or even antique look.
PHOTO GEN:
REP:
- Made on the basis of 6497, with the design of bridges, but of course, upon closer examination, it had a lot of flaws, both constructive and in the overall quality of decoration, inscriptions, etc.
Used on a number of titanium radiomirs, for example, PAM309, PAM322 from N / N factories.
- Later it appeared on PAM399 from the SF factory, according to the owners, apparently, it was not a new movt., But had old ones that existed before.
- In any case, it is quite a rare movement these days, and with all the drawbacks it is nice and exotic to have.
- Replicas of lower quality, usually had any A6497 that came to hand to the manufacturer.
PHOTO REP (OLD):
PHOTO REP (SF):
Cortebert 618
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- From a practical point of view, this corresponds to 6497 movements.
PHOTO GEN:
- REP:
- A little-known factory JH produced PAM021, in which it installed A6497 with bridge design in gen. It was not cheap, and since our TDs, for some reason, mostly bypassed it, it was not distributed on RWI.
- Surely you can also come across many homage projects based on molnija, which had the maximum external and structural similarity from those movts., Which are readily available these days and are cheap.
PHOTO REP (JH):
PHOTO REPS (DSN):
Angelus SF240
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- There are many discussions about this, gen models were unique and expensive, they say, just by selling these watches, Richmond has already almost recouped its costs of acquiring the brand.
- There are also many opinions about their origin, but technically, these are historical movements of the 50s, restored, calibrated and installed in a newly produced watch for them.
PHOTO GEN:
- REP:
- There are enough homages of these models using gen Angelus modified from alarm clocks. This is not often, to the extent that it is expensive.
- In fact, in the world of rep there is no full replacement for this movt., But it was impossible to miss it due to the historical importance, the prevalence of individual builds, and simply the desirability of these rare watches.
PHOTO REP (GEN mod.movt):
1.2.2. Automatic wind
- Simple
OP.XXXIV
- Example models:
- GEN:
- Mod for Panerai has 4 more jewels, but 2 days less PR and individual design in the style of the brand.
- The task was to add an additional automatic movement to the line with the usual PR of at least 3 days, but at the same time in a compact size, to implement the plans for 42 and 38 mm models.
- Later it will be referred to in other models as P.900, and will go into the category of manufacture, although I am not aware of any changes regarding P.XXXIV in it, apart from other markings.
PHOTO GEN:
- REP:
- High-end VSF reps use the P.9000 clone, which does not match OP.XXXIV in appearance, as seen on models with a transparent caseback when we talk about luminor due, or gold PAM973.
On models with a solid caseback, the disadvantage is that the gen does not have an independent watch hand, and other features of the manufactory P.9 ***, but is controlled in the same way as 7750 based movts.
It is also important to understand that gen movt., 30 x 4.2mm in size, and all models using p.9000 cannot match it in thickness.
- Cheap reps usually have st2555 at the base, without decoration, only a rotor made in the panerai style, which is no longer a bad thing, because it takes up most of the plane visible under the backcase.
PHOTO REP:
Output:
At the first stages of brand formation, before the advent of manufacturing movements, this was a forced measure, but nevertheless, 6497 is now associated only with panerai, despite the fact that it was essentially a borrowed movement, and clones of this movt., Received this it is widespread that some not expensive official brands use them in their legitimate watches, not to mention that the OP.X / XI bridge design itself, which is essentially panerai, is not something unique to this brand in the eyes of the average user if there are no markings on it.
Also, it should be noted that modifications of ETA7750, similar to OP.III / VIII / IX, did not appear in other brands, and their change in the form of OP.XXX/XXXI/XXXII is still used in the panerai lineup, despite the presence of manufactory analogs.
Of course, many complex borrowed movements were not included in this text, because they are often unique even for the watch world, and their rep either did not correspond to the size, layout, or functionality.
There are the excellent OP.XIV - HW JLC 1877 with 8 days PR and indicator on the back, or OP.VII chronograph with Flyback Zenith, not to mention the many movements that have not been named in the panerai classification system and have remained with their original names.
From a rep's point of view, the period of non-in-house calibers is a golden age.
The maximum number of models that could be implemented without producing a specific clone, the potential for the production of models on which it is difficult to assess.
A6497, A7750 / 3 derivatives, these are most of the superreps panerai, which our beloved brand has much more than many other brands.
This is not something that will be developed in the future, but factories should be taughtto assume that the lion's share of the brand's fans remained their hearts in 1997-2006, and the demand for them may not be as massive as the sale of bright modern models to people "candy wrappers" who do not know anything and are not going to learn about the brand, but for sure will exist for a long time, because this is what attracts new fans of the brand to this day.
It is more difficult with borrowed movements from other brands ... In fact, except for ST19, which cannot be applied everywhere (a good example with the PAM192 gen, which uses a rather rare OP.XVI with a smaller diameter than the usual OP.XXV), and derivatives 6497, as in the case with OPXXVII, or Cortebert618, we don't have anything complete.
But, thanks for that too, because it is really very controversial, due to the low prevalence, and as a result of commercial efficiency.
I missed a lot of interesting calibers that did not have good reps and did not set the task of dealing with movts., Absolutely bad reps, which simply do not look like anything at all, so it is difficult to make a mistake with them.
It should also be noted that ETA derived movts., This is a field for applying modifications with swiss details and movement in general, and they may differ in design and some details, but it is better to learn this through the technical section of our forum, where people write who, unlike they can at least remove my hands from movt. without scratching them. And we are moving into the next era of panerai movements ...
2.Manufactory.
2.1. Hand wind
- Simple
P.999
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- Measures 27 × 3.4mm and was introduced to produce 42mm models with hand winds, which clearly cannot be fitted with OP.X / XI
- Has one barrel, PR 60 hours, or 2.5 days, which is more than on ETA counterparts.
- In fact, it would be reasonable to see it in the list of borrowed ones, with Roman numerals in the name, I do not know about modifications, in addition to the design, making it a manufacturing one.
PHOTO GEN:
- REP:
- It looks very much like gen, but loses in many respects, especially due to the presence of standard blue screws, as well as the position of the balance wheel at "6" and not at "12", and the fact that the size of the movement is clearly larger than gen, within the transparent caseback.
- This is a heavily modified configuration of st2555 or related movt., Adapted to work with HW, removed auto-recoil module, but added decorative plate.
In this example of an attempt to make the P.999, it is far from perfect, but it is the first step towards the real clone that the V6F made and a similar basis we will see in other rep manufactory movts., Panerai.
PHOTO REP (V6F):
P.1000
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- Also used for small models radiomir, radiomir 1940 and the first luminors due, due to the compact size of 27 × 3.85mm.
- This time, it is a full-fledged in-house caliber, with a PR increased to 72 hours and a PANERAI-specific balance wheel mount with 2 axles with shock absorbers.
- It has a skeletonized modification of the P.1000 / 10, which is traditionally equipped with panerai analogs of existing models, but made of precious metals.
- PHOTO GEN:
- REP:
- It also has a gull base, but this time the balance wheel is correctly positioned, although there are still a lot of flaws in terms of appearance, and most importantly, thickness, which does not allow it to be fully used in 42mm models.
- Just like the P.999 from V6F it has a mixed gull base, but even more heavily modified, on the way to their best
P.2002 / 9.
PHOTO REP:
P.2002
- GEN:
- In the first iteration, it had the functionality of 3 hands, with a second at "9", a linear PR indicator on the dial, a GMT hand at 12 o'clock, and a 24 hour indicator parallel to the second hand, which is quite important, at 12 o'clock GMT, which is not small, glasses of functionality, and the reason for this is that at first the Basic caliber was presented, which has further modifications, primarily related not to additional functions, but on the contrary - to their absence.
- P.2002 without additional indices can be seen only in PAM200 / PAM201, and one Ferrari model, later, in PAM233 / PAM289 it is usually called P.2002 / 1, there is also a modification of P.2002 / 2, but the differences between these 3 are not I know if someone in the know can indicate in the comments.
- P.2002 / 3 is a modification of the same movement, but without the GMT function, for example PAM268 and PAM384.
- P.2002 / 7
This is the most simplified modification, having only 3 arms, in accordance with the original historical canons, in accordance with SF240, which was used by PAM339 / PAM341, both of which have a solid caseback, therefore its appearance is not known to the general public, but most likely does not differ from the standard one.
- P.2002 / 9
A similar option, only with the PR indicator not from the front, but on the contrary, was used in such models as PAM346, PAM735 and PAM368, which is interesting, in one case, it has a date, in the other it does not, but this is not so much related to the specifics of movt., how much with the design of specific models.
Also, it is interesting that in the case of the PAM368, even with the wider edges of the transparent caseback, it is quite noticeable that movt. Is quite small, relative to the 47mm case, and the second hand is quite close to the center, given the absence of the logo on the opposite side for 8 days, for that to balance it.
So, movement, which primarily has historical references in its functions, did not quite fit into the most, that neither is the historical model (or in any case, less organically than others).
- P.2002 / 10
Skeletonized design of full functionality used on precious metal models such as radiomir PAM538
- P.2002 / E
The most difficult modification, among other things, with the function of the equation of time.
- PHOTO GEN (P.2002):
- PHOTO GEN (P.2002/9):
- PHOTO GEN (P.2002/10):
- REP:
It is also not easy to find similar in specific functionality, and at the same time, it should be HW.
Considering that there are many modifications with different functionality, the issue was usually solved by factories individually, for a specific model.
But in general, one can distinguish the formation, as I believe, of clones from the banal ST2533 with a rotor, to the almost full-fledged P.2002 / 9 in PAM346, and some situational decisions.
Now we will analyze each modification and model separately, but we will take into account the "spoiler": there is nothing in really red quality in the P.2002 line of replacements.
- 2002/1, 2
When the PAM233 was made it was a hot item and couldn't be bypassed, and factories used the ST2533, which had a number of drawbacks, the most obvious of which was the rotor, as it is an automatic movement, which is a problem given the presence of transparent caseback.
Also, to set the date, you need a pusher on the side at 4 o'clock, which is not available on gen.
In the end, the PR indicator did not work completely correctly, in terms of length, and did not have a curtain covering the cut, as a result of which the shiny metal parts of the movement were always visible through it.
There are other shortcomings, after all this there is no point in discussing, the above is enough, and unfortunately, we never received a decent movt., For this, one of the most popular models.
Nevertheless, these old reps are pretty reliable, very common, and have an incredible amount of variations in appearance and quality, up, often, to pretty pretty fantasies.
- PHOTO REP:
- P.2002/3
The V6F factory made the PAM384, which was supposed to have this caliber.
They went further from the ST2533 and modified it for use as an HW movt. And also supplied decorative plates to emulate the gen.
This is a big step forward, but the look still didn't match the gen, the balance wheel was at 6 o'clock instead of 11, and there was also a button to set the date.
- PHOTO REP:
- 2002/7
Since this is the simplest modification, and has HW, A6497 is installed in PAM341 and PAM339, which is not visible, thanks to the solid caseback, but it has an incorrect distance between the second hand and the center of the dial, so V6F applied its "under-bow" P. 2002/3, in rep pam339, and given the solid caseback, it came out almost perfect, except of course the 8 days of power reserve. It has a standard PR for a seagull of ~ 42 hours.
- 2002/9
The PAM368 replica was equipped with a regular A6497, which was not correct with anyFrom the point of view, neither function, nor dial layout, nor appearance under the transparent caseback, although the reality is that these reps were bad from all points of view, and incorrect movement was clearly not the highest drawback.
But for the PAM346 V6F went further, from their A.2002 / 3, and now the movement looks very good, except for some decorative gears and a non-functioning PR indicator.
However, it is so much modified movt. That I would call it a clone. Yes, it doesn’t repeat all the functions, and the construction is not the same, but it’s an individually designed movement, especially for copying the P.2002 / 9, and it looks very decent.
It is a pity that this is the only model where they managed to apply it, because with it they could also make the PAM368 and PAM735, which could be very popular.
- PHOTO REP:
P.3000
- GEN:
Therefore, we immediately carry over from 2010 and welcome the large (~ 37mm) HW movt., For 47mm models (It is 1mm thicker than 6497).
In the basic version, these are 2 hands, 2 barrels and 3 days of PR.
It has become a full-fledged replacement for 6497 derivatives for 47mm expensive models, and fits better, and is also cheaper than the P.2002, and the position of the balance wheel and second hand is similar to the 6497 prototype.
It had a ton of modifications, shapes and designs that we will mention.
The base P.3000 had 2 design options, the second also in an engraved version for some models, and these changes do not have a special designation.
There are also 4 modifications with different functions, but marked with "/", while not having data on this in the movement marking (They are all just P.3000), and finally 2 functional modifications with a name change.
Let's figure it out now:
- The basic version of the P.3000 was installed, for example, in PAM372, PAM425, PAM448, PAM605.
In this case, it's just "base", 2 hands.
- PHOTO GEN:
- In 2016, I received a design change, starting with the PAM687, and then it was produced only in this design version, including on those models that had the old design in previous years, for example, on the PAM372.
This change did not change the labeling.
- PHOTO GEN (P.3000 NEW):
- In the same 2016, the PAM672 appeared, with an engraved case and an engraved P.3000 in a new design, and received the F index, which, however, is not included in the marking.
- PHOTO GEN (P.3000/F):
- P.3000 / 1 is an addition to the base caliber, with a second hand. Used, for example, in PAM375 or PAM690. At the back, there are no differences, including no additional markings.
At the back, it does not differ from the P.3000, so there is no need for a photo.
- P.3000 / 2 variant with date, both with a second hand (for example PAM515) and without it (for example PAM424 in the first production series).
The rear also does not differ from the base P.3000.
- P.3001 in basic version, this is P.3000 with added second hand and PR indicator on the back, which makes it easy to confuse with P.3000 / 3, but without GMT. The divisions here are very arbitrary, and apparently the logic has changed, but we can always remember the model with this movement PAM422.
- PHOTO GEN:
- P.3001/10
it is a skeletonized version used as decoration for expensive radiomors made of precious metals, for example PAM598, PAM570 and in pocket watch models, but with only 2 hands.
- PHOTO GEN:
- The P.3001 / C is a very special movement, used only as a prototype on the PAM700. It makes sense to read about it on GEN resources, I can't explain it in 2 words, but it uses a lot of unique solutions, and is only constructively connected with the P.3000 base, and in fact is a show car.
- PHOTO GEN:
- P.3002 version of P.3001, with a second hand with the PR indicator transferred to the dial, in the usual style and position OP.IX / OP.XXXII or P.9002, with a single model PAM423.
- REP:
The base P.3000 was of great interest, and the PAM372 is one of the most popular, so replicas of one kind or another appeared even before they could make the new 1950 47mm case.
- A6497 was used on the very first versions, it fits in size, but given the use of a transparent backcase, it is completely incorrect in appearance.
You can also find tons of cheap DHgate versions with the A6497. I will not add photos, 6497 have seen everything, especially since the design can be of any kind.
- 6497 + deco plate.
A very common type used on cheap versions from both TD in certain years and DHgate around the world.
The position of the balance wheel, its size is not correct, and the shape of the bridges is not correct. They are often found in correct, albeit not quite high-quality cases, extended on PAM372, PAM605, PAM687 and many other P.3000 models, but they can have absolutely any random flaws, so you need to be careful with them: watch the position of the balance wheel, and a line separating the bridges, at least. Upon close examination, it is not difficult to determine all this.
They can repeat in design both the standard P.3000 and the new design and modification F with engraving for PAM672 / 972.
- PHOTO REP (OLD design):
- PHOTO REP (NEW design):
- PHOTO REP (P.3000 / F):
- Cartel 6497.
This is a modification of the 6497, with individual axle designs, which, according to the person who invented it, looks more like the P.3000 than the standard A6497.
Used by NOOB (for example, PAM372) and VF6 (for example, PAM605), later, they were in different models of lower quality factories.
This movt., Was used in quality reps, but is not at all like P.3000, which even forced many to use solid caseback so as not to see it, for example, on the PAM372 noob.
He has everythingP.3000 markings, but the position, size, shape, attachment of the balance wheel are not correct, the shape of the bridges is not the same.
This variant 6497 also has several different versions, differing in finish, color of the jewel, but now this is not so important, over the years.
- PHOTO REP (cartel):
- Clone P.3000 (V1-V4)
Since the end of 2013, clones of the P.3000 have appeared.
True p.3000 clones were only present in the SF and ZF factory models, and one example of the PAM972 is from the V9F factory.
They have the correct balance wheel position, size and shape (spoke pattern and variable inertia screws), and most importantly, there are really 2 barrels, and a power reserve of 5-7 (6.5 on average from what I have seen), which is more. than GEN.
Clones can differ visually, in color, position and size of decorative stones (You can read more about this here: https://forum.replica-watch.info/for...-p-3000-clone- movements-from-clone1-to-clone-4), the shape of the knob, the presence or absence of a logo under the balance wheel, and some other elements.
There are clones of both the classic P.3000 in the PAM372 and the new design in the PAM687.
There are also F clones for engraved Ferenze models.
It is a completely independent, purpose-built movement, although it has some details from the existing ones, and the RWI specialists know how to maintain it.
I have not seen specific examples, and a detailed description of the list of works, but according to the assurances of the participants, it is interchangeable with the A6497.
Everything is always relative, but this clone in the latest version is really quite accurate in relation to GEN, relatively reliable and shows good performance.
Any clone can always be easily distinguished from GEN simply by the absence of the second of the two symmetrical screws securing the two bridges at 12 o'clock.
- PHOTO REP (Classic P.3000 clone):
- PHOTO REP (New Design P.3000):
PHOTO REP (Engraved P.3000F):
- P.3001 model, the PAM422 could have an A6497 with a decorative plate which in some cases had, and in some did not, a fake PR arm.
There was also a "cartel" A6497 labeled P.3001, similar to the early P.3000, but also with a false PR indicator on the back.
The last and best option was the SF with a clone of the P.3000, with the correct markings for the P.3001, and also a false PR indicator that is fixed in one position.
- PHOTO REP (A6497 + DECO PLATE):
- PHOTO REP (A6497 "CARTEL"):
- PHOTO REP (P.3000 CLONE + P.3001 STYLE):
- P.3002 was used exclusively in PAM423, could have A6497, or a clone of P.3000, but in any case, the PR indicator on the dial was not functional and the PR hand was fixed in one position.
There will be no photos, they are similar to those already shown above, just the P.3000 marking is replaced with P.3002.
Also, AW reps, low quality with a working PR on a seagull-based dial, DHgate format, are common for them.
In addition to everything that I described, there are many completely incorrect examples of cheap reps, but I don't think it will be so interesting, and there is a lot of text anyway.
Also, attempts to make P.3001 / 10, or P.3001 / G are usually completely ridiculous, so I will skip them too.
Let's move on.
P.5000
- GEN
Regardless of the presence or absence of the second hand, they have one index P.5000
In the process of releasing and developing the lineup, it changed externally, and received some modifications, which I will mention.
Also, it was used both in models with solid casebacks and with transparent ones.
- Design 1
- Model examples:
- GEN:
- PHOTO GEN (P.5000 DESIGN 1):
- REP:
- A6497
The very first, and later simply cheap versions were sold and are present on Dhgate today from 6497.
Since most of the models have a transparent caseback, this is not acceptable, in any version of the decoration, the floor is any 6497 caliber.
- 6497 + deco plate
The V6f specialized in the P.5000 with a decorative plate over the A6497. Since the design of gen P.5000 bridges is such that you cannot see anything under them, this could be acceptable, but the balance wheel has a different position, the size and the attachment bridge should have 2 thin supports, and the 6497 has one and is much wider, therefore it can be seen from under the decorative plate.
Overall, in terms of movt., This is not the highest quality option, although the decorative plate is very well made, albeit with an obviously fake brass gear.
- PHOTO REP (A6597 + DECO):
- P.5000 clone
ZF has made the so-called P.5000 clone, which has been used in a variety of models such as PAM510, PAM560, PAM562, PAM564 and so on.
In fact, this is the same P.3000 clone with an additional decorative plate, similar to what the V6f did, but taking into account the correct position of the balance wheel.
By the way, the wheel is still slightly larger and has a different spoke design.
It also does not solve the problem of the apparently non-functional brass gear.
On the other hand, PR, although not 8 days, but about a week, which is really close to the real value, and a lot for rep hours.
Yes, this one is not perfect, but a large percentage satisfactory, and is the best solution for models with this caliber when considering movement.
- PHOTO REP (P.5000 CLONE ZF):
Design 2
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
Also a brass gear, has a different base, size and position.
I'm not sure if there are functional differences, but it is known that many who bought gen models with p.5000 of the original release wrote about different problems.
Probably something was taken into account and changed.
Of course, it is not easy to keep the timekeeping at 8 days of the watch's course, but at the same time I have at least 2 people familiar with gen watches of this caliber, and they did not experience any difficulties.
One way or another, without factual information, it is difficult to judge the changes.
- PHOTO GEN (P.5000 DESIGN 2):
- REP:
They do not have a clone, the appearance is realized with a decoration plate, on top of the usual 6497.
This form factor has already known appearance problems, and the plate itself is not made with all the correct details.
In any case, this is their first experience, and so far, the only model.
- PHOTO REP (P.5000 DESIGN 2):
Design 3
On the latest models with the P.5000, we see a different design of the main axle, without the notch with the gear at all, like the PAM992.
This design allows this part to be unified with another caliber based on it, about which below.
- PHOTO GEN (P.5000 DESIGN 3):
There are currently no REP models with this design option.
P.5001
The first functional modification of this movt., Appeared only in 2018 with the PAM796 destro, and has a PR indicator on the back.
- PHOTO GEN (P.5001):
- REP of this model does not exist at the moment.
P.5002
The second functional modification of this movt., Has a PR indicator on the dial, which can be seen on the PAM797, PAM795, in its already traditional position and format, while, interestingly, equipped with an arrow as on the old PAM027 and PAM028, which is definitely more aesthetically pleasing, in my opinion, than a leaf.
Also, this model is equipped with a solid caseback, so I have not seen its appearance, but I think that it corresponds to the last iteration of the base p.5000, eIf you look from behind, I won't add a photo.
REP of this model also does not exist at the moment.
P.6000
- GEN:
Unlike 6497, it has 72 hours of power reserve, and a stop second, as well as a modification with a second hand, with the same index.
- Examples of models:
- PHOTO GEN:
- REP:
Both factories used standard A6497 and the HWF is sterile, unlabeled according to OP.X / XI.
This is of little importance, because, as it was mentioned, all models had a solid caseback, and besides the movement, there were generally enough claims to watches.
Interestingly, they took care of the CP, which has a slightly different appearance, including on the second hand, which somehow does not stop at the time setting position.
I don’t see any sense in photographs, everyone already knows what the A6497 looks like.
Complex
There are a number of complex gen movts., With HW and various complications
- P.2004: chronograph monopulsant with many modifications.
- P.2005: tourbillon with various complications.
All these movements do not have full or even approximate execution options.
- P.2006: chronograph 8 days with control buttons on the back.
If you have a rep whose gen should have such a movement, no doubt this is something wrong, and probably not expensive.
2.2. Automatic wind
- Simple.
P.900
- Examples of models:
- GEN:
- It is interesting to note that it is used in some models that look similar to similar ones, but with the P.9010, and usually this entails a change in the shape of the case, even if they are of the same type.
- It is used both in models with a solid caseback and with a transparent one.
- For the rest, I recommend that you go back and read about OP.XXXIV, because they are one and the same.
- PHOTO GEN:
- REP:
VSF in models that should use it uses its P.9000 clones, which do not differ much in diameter, but are almost 2 times thicker (8mm versus 4.2), which is why, in addition to appearance (Design is different, but the same position balance wheels, and rotor design), in models with a transparent caseback, the thickness of the reps ends up being too large.
The dial layout is retained, but the P.900 also lacks the specific features of the P.9000 with an independent hour hand, and is operated like the 7750.
But the markings on these P.9000 clones correspond to P.900.
- PHOTO REP (VSF P.9000, marked P.900):
P.4000
GEN:
This is a movement with a non-symmetrical rotor, and a power reserve of 3 days.
It is quite large in size but low in thickness, making it suitable for use only in 45mm models, both the luminor due and the radiomir 1940.
This is the only movement panerai in this lineup, but there are several modifications that I will mention.
Used in models with a transparent caseback.
- In the basic version of P.4000, these are 3 hands, date, GMT hand at 12 o'clock, and a day / night indicator above the second hand, as in P.2002.
In some models, the gmt-related function may not be available.
Used on models such as PAM572, PAM573, PAM995, PAM674, etc.
PHOTO GEN (P.4000):
- P.4000 / 10, modification, as for other calibers, means a skeletonized version of the design, and the absence of date and gmt, only 3 hands remain.
This time it was used not only in gold PAM675, but for example in albeit narrowly limited, but steel PAM751
PHOTO GEN (P.4000 / 10):
- P.4001, this is a variant with a PR indicator on the back of the movement, which was used, for example, on PAM998 or PAM657, but has a modification with 3 hands, without GMT on PAM943.
PHOTO GEN (P.4001):
- P.4002, this is a modification that has a PR indicator on the dial, instead of the movement bridge. It is mandatory in the 45mm due and 1940 models, as the most complex, for example, in PAM628, PAM999, PAM946, PAM944, etc.
PHOTO GEN (P.4002):
REP:
Of course, this is a rather difficult movt., For rep factories, but there are several variants with which some models from the line equipped with this caliber, or derivatives, were produced.
- First of all, we need to distinguish the PAM572 from the V9F factory, which was equipped with a P.4000 clone. It resembles the ST4020, which is usually used in replica watches with a side rotor, but the position of the balance wheel, its mounting bridges, the position of the rotor are different and correspond to gen P.4000.
There are many other nuances of the appearance that are no longer similar to gen, but these are minor details. In general, this is the most accurate that can be obtained for this model.
PHOTO REP (P.4000 clone V9F):
- The V6F factory, which mainly made radiomirs and luminor due at that time, and also experimented with attempts to copy manufactory movements, did not act unambiguously, and in its PAM572 / PAM573 it put its P.2002 / 7 the same as the PAM384, only without gmt and PR functions, and didn't even change the markings on bridges.
It has the correct dial layout, but given the transparent caseback, it doesn't look right at all from the back.
PHOTO REP (V6F P.4000 = P.2002 / 7):
- There are many low quality reps for models based on p.4000, DHgate format, with different seagulls depending on functionality, for example ST2555 for the simplified P.4000 / 1, ST2530 for the P.4002.
All of them, of course, do not look correct, and use the standard rotor decoration, with which they are used as a replacement for any manufactured AW pams, therefore, there is no point in additional photos.
P.9000
GEN:
The first in-house AW panerai appeared in 2009 to complement a range of ETA-based borrowed calibers such as OP.III in a more expensive collection.
All models with this movement were used in new, at that time 1950 cases.
Used both in 42, 44mm models and in 47mm, both luminors and radiomirs, both with transparent caseback and solid.
The Movement had a number of specific points in its operation, despite the fact that it resembled the 7750-P1 in function and dial layout, the P.9000 has an independent hour hand that can be moved by leaps for 1 hour without rotating the minute hand.
This is also used to set the date, it needs to be scrolled every day.
Has a stop second, and resets the second hand to "0" when set to time setting mode.
(Not sure if this feature is available on P.9000s from all years of production, but modifications like P.9001/2/3 have this function )
All these qualities have made this movement very widespread, there are so many very different models on it that were produced for a long time, before the transition to the P.9010.
Also had a number of modifications, which we will now see.
- The base P.9000 had 3 hands and a date similar to OP.III. Used in a huge variety of models, for example: PAM312, PAM382, PAM388, PAM393
In fact, it was the only entry-level manufacture automatic movement, and most models were supplied with it.
PHOTO GEN (P.9000):
- P.9001 is a modification that had a GMT function of 12 hours, and a specific outlook specific PR indicator on the reverse side.
An interesting solution is to make a GMT hand that goes through the circle of the dial in 12 hours, by analogy with P.2002, but without a day / night indicator, which distinguishes it from OP.VIII which was used in GMT models before. This is very controversial from a functional point of view, but it is convenient from an aesthetic point of view, since the GMT hand matches the size of the hour, and allows you to hide one after the other, and they will run in parallel, as a result, it turns out that the appearance of the dial is cleaner, which is often demanded by fans of the brand.
Examples of models: PAM320, PAM441, PAM719, PAM688
PHOTO GEN (P.9001):
P.9001 / b
This is a modification of the P.9001 for the ceramic black PAM438 Tuttonero, which is made with a black DLC coating. It is worth noting that the PAM441 model without a bracelet has a standard P.9001, but a tinted sapphire crystal on the backcase.
There are no functional differences in this modification.
PHOTO GEN (P.9001 / b):
P.9002 - modification with the function of the PR indicator on the dial, in the usual place, as on the OP.IX, from the back it looks the same as the P.9000, except for the markings.
Examples of models: PAM507, PAM321, PAM537, PAM329.
PHOTO GEN (P.9002):
The P.9003 is an analogue of the P.9001, but the GMT 24H function, as on the old 7750 derivatives, and a different design of the PR indicator on the back.
On the only PAM531 I know of, not only the inner dial markings were made in the style of PAM088, but also a set of hands.
In general, the model reflects the PANERAI style of that time as much as possible, but based on the old-school layout and functionality.
PHOTO GEN (P.9003):
REP
As already mentioned, models with P.9000 and derivatives were the main automatic range of PANERAI, therefore, the question of the need for an adequate analogue was very urgent.
For all the time there is a huge number of variants of the P.9000 analogs, and its modifications, and if you look, for example, PAM312 in the ALE PAM GUIDE, the entire evolution of the replicas of this movement is described in as much detail and in detail there.
I will highlight only the main things:
All types of rep movement can be divided into 3 main groups based on the used Asian movt:
- A7750
It could have been used for the P.9000, as well as for the P.9001, using a modification with the GMT function, but the GMT hand format was 24H, not 12, as on gen, but for the P.9003 it was perfect from this point of view.
There is no functional variant for the P.9002 based on the 7750.
The main drawback is the incorrect balance position at "11" o'clock instead of "7" o'clock at GEN, as well as other adjustment functions.
There are many options for the appearance.
It may not have decorations except for the rotor, in accordance with the GEN on the first versions, for example PAM312, or PAM359.
With decorative plate, it was produced by ZF, V6F, SF in inverted and non-inverted form.
In the case of P.9001 and P.9003, they may or may not have a decorative PR indicator.
It is important to note that models copying the P.9000 with A7750 and a decorative plate or solid caseback support the lie of replacing the A7750 with SWISS.
All of them have differences about which enough has already been written for today, and this does not greatly affect their assessment these days.
PHOTO REP (P.9000 - A7750 + deco plate):
PHOTO REP (P.9000 - A7750 w / o deco plate):
PHOTO REP (P.9001 / b - A7750 + deco plate):
- Seagull
Could be used for the P.9000 using the ST2555, and in this case was a complete replacement.
For P.9001 using ST2557, but also 24H GMT, as with 7750, and not as in gen.
For the P.9002, the ST2530 is used, which has a functional PR, but has a button at 10 o'clock to set the date, therefore it was used mainly in cheap replicas, although often not so bad ones, for example, the PAM507.
Functionally it is suitable for P.9003 with 24H GMT function.
In general, Seagull for the P.9000 / P.9001 was a full-fledged alternative to the A7750, while it is much cheaper (~ -100 $ from the A7750 version), and the balance wheel is located at "6" hours, which is not like GEN, but slightly closer than 11 o'clock on the A7750.
In terms of appearance, you can find cheap DHgate versions without a decorative plate, only with a rotor in the style of P.9000, also variants from V6F and ZF with decorative plates, both inverted and not inverted, today there is even a modern PAM441 from XF with decorative plate using ST2557.
Also, as with the A7750, you just need to determine that it is seagull and, by the presence or absence of decoration, understand the level, this is enough for today.
PHOTO REP (P.9000 - ST2555 w / o deco plate):
PHOTO REP (P9001 - ST2557 + deco plate):
PHOTO REP (P.9002 - ST2553 + deco plate):
- P.9000 clone
Made by the SF factory with gen functions, but the position of the balance wheel at "3" hours and the shift of the second hand, closer to the center of the dial. These violations made it not very necessary, and not very popular, but it should be said, because these models, in particular, PAM569 or PAM382 (there were several others) can be found.
PHOTO REP (P.9000 SF CLONE):
The main and most widespread clone of the P.9000 was made by the VSF factory, which conquered the rep panerai market, and keeps it to this day.
Yes, this clone can be distinguished externally, in the time setting mode, but otherwise, it is very good and is the best option for the P.9000.
For P.9001 it was in series, V1 with 24H GMT function and V2 with 12H.
It's a shame, but for the P.9003 in PAM531 it was only with the V2 clone, had the correct marking and design of the PR indicator, but the GMT function is 12 hours, instead of 24.
Regarding the VSF clone and its derivatives, a few fundamental reservations must be made:
- There is no VSF clone for P.9002.
- On P.9001, P.9001 / b, P.9003, the PR indicator on the back does not work, only decorative.
- There is no function to reset the seconds when setting the time.
- It repeats most of the functions and appearance, but is not structurally similar to gen.
- It can always be quickly distinguished externally from gen by looking at the rotor mount.
- At the moment, it is a proven movement, with sufficient reliability and maintainability for an Asian, although there are problems with the western parts.
PHOTO REP (P.9000 VSF):
PHOTO REP (P.9001 VSF):
PHOTO REP (P.9001 / b VSF):
PHOTO REP (P.9003 VSF):
Here it is necessary to give a small conclusion on the P.9000 and its forms.
To adequately assess your REP, you first need to look for a gen-caliber rotor and bridges.
- If not, then either this is a very old replica or dhgate quality.
If so, look at the position of the balance wheel:
- "6" o'clock is seagull (V6F / ZF)
- "11" o'clock is 7750 (V6F / ZF / SF)
- "7" o'clock is a VSF clone
- "3" o'clock is an SF clone
Further differentiation on the version does not have serious practical significance today, because this already determines both the cost and quality of your REP, but if you wish, you can easily carry it out using the PAM GUIDE on the example of any old model on the P.9000, including all variants during the production period of various versions, for example, PAM312.
P.9010
GEN:
In 2017, a new movement was released, replacing the p.9000 across the panerai range.
Functionally, nothing has changed, but the thickness has become noticeably smaller, 6mm, versus 7.9mm on the P.9000.
The design has also changed at the back; the balance wheel is already on 2 mountings, and its position is at "11" o'clock, and not at "7" as before.
Due to the reduced thickness, all subsequent and new models received new cases, 42, 44 and 47mm, with different promotions and less thickness.
You can clearly see the difference between PAM382 and PAM671 as an example, or PAM312 and PAM1312.
Previously produced models also usually received some restyling.
The P.9010 was initially used primarily in transparent caseback models, but in recent years, more and more solid caseback models have appeared.
In the new generation, the P.9010 on solid caseback models no longer has a stop-second function, and, instead of a full-fledged satin finish, perlage, and polished chamfers, it is completely sandblasted. I have no photographs, but there are many confirmations of this information in various places on the Internet.
As a result, this movement became the new workhorse of PANERAI, for mass-produced, all-in-house models.
It has again a certain number of modifications for the main demanded functions.
PHOTO GEN (P.9010):
P.9011
By analogy with P.9000 - P.9001 this is a modification for 12H GMT function and PR indicator on the back, used in models such as PAM1320, or PAM1033.
Interestingly, there is information that in models with a solid backcase P.9010 / GMT, and not P.9011, which most likely may be due to the option without trim, and that it would be logical, without the PR indicator on the back of the movement, the use of which on models with solid caseback is at least impractical.
PHOTO GEN (P.9011):
P.9012
Well, as always, the variant of the model with a PR indicator on the dial, realized according to the position and principle of indication, is already traditional for PANERAI.
You can see how this is implemented, for example, on the PAM1321.
PHOTO GEN (P.9012):
REP.
Since this is not a niche, but one of the most widespread movts., In the panerai line, it was necessary to repeat it.
The simplest and fastest solution was to reuse the decorative plate on top of the existing movts., And this time it is optimal to return to the A7750, because it has the same balance wheel position as gen p.9010.
A seagull closer to the P.9000 has become less useful, as has the long-awaited P.9000 VSF clone.
The biggest problem is that none of the movts. Could provide the necessary thickness for almost all new cases.
This problem is relevant to this day.
Let's see what we have, following the same principle as with the P.9000:
Seagull
- ST2555 for P.9010, ST2557 for P.9011, ST2553 for P.9012.
- Not successful, due to the position of the balance wheel at "6", instead of "11" on gen
- Usually much cheaper than the A7750 model.
- V6F / XF / ZF have produced the best models on this basis, with a decorative plate that looks very believable.
- Cheap versions of DHgate, factories like King, made mostly without decorative plates, including models with PR and GMT.
PHOTO REP (ST2555 + deco plate):
A7750
- Were the best option for repeating P.9010
- Supports swiss A7750 replacement
- Correct position of the balance wheel at "11" o'clock
- Manufactured by V6F / ZF / XF factories with a decorative plate similar to the Seagull models.
- There were only P.9010 analogues.
- Of course they don't have gen functions.
- Unfortunately, the thickness is not correct.
PHOTO REP (A7750 + deco plate):
Clone P.9010, P.9011
- Manufactured by VSF only
- Are clones of P.9000 with modified markings, in accordance with P.9010
- The position of the balance wheel is "7" o'clock, instead of "11" on gen P.9010.
- Bridge design and appearance movt., Other.
- Not the correct thickness, although the closest one exists at the moment.
- Functions P.9000 and P.9010 correspond, so everything is correct except for resetting the seconds.
- For the new version of P.9010 used on models with a solid backcase, the functions are not correct, because gen, unlike a clone, does not have a stop second.
- The P.9011 clone is also a P.9001 clone, with a redesigned PR indicator on the back, which is more reminiscent of the P.9003.
PHOTO REP (Clone VSF P.9010 = P.9000):
PHOTO REP (Clone VSF P.9011 = P.9001):
I will also duplicate a small conclusion for P.9010
- We check the presence of decorations and markings on the bridges and the rotor.
If it is not there, or it is only on the rotor, it is most likely a cheap DHgate rep.
- Check the position of the balance wheel:
"11" o'clock - A7750
"6" o'clock - Seagull
"7" o'clock - VSF P.9000 clone.
The conclusion is that functionally and in terms of thickness, the best is the P.9000 clone from VSF, if appearance is more important, then the A7750 version with a decorative plate.
For models with a solid backcase, a clone is definitely better, but the functions will not be repeated correctly.
Complex .
- P.2003: Analogue of p.2002 but with AW and 10 days.
- P.9100: flyback chronograph with control buttons on the left side.
- P.9200: analogous to P.9100, but without flyback function, also with buttons on the left side of the case, and used in models with.
The situation with complex mechanisms is again the same; it will be either a quartz chronograph with fake pushers, or any movt. that will perform random functions, all that is necessary, and in general, this is not a desirable purchase.
Conclusion.
That's all, actually. I tried to bring in everything more or less interesting here. Of course, I could have missed something through inattention, or not knowing, in addition to what I did not consciously mention, but I think after reading everything, you will have a certain idea of what is set in your rep panerai.
Of course, there are many completely inappropriate movements in low-quality reps, and on many very old models, you can probably find absolutely any movt., For example, pam111 with AW ST2555 for DHgate - this is normal, but that's why I wrote about gen as well, so that in case you didn’t find an indication of your movt., common sense would help and suggest whether it’s good that you have it installed there or not.
Also, we must not forget that more often, the more perfect and modern the movt., The higher the overall quality of the rep, with the exception of some particulars, and again, depending on which flaws you accept more easily.
For example, I like the PAM351 on the A7750 with a decorative plate more from the point of view of the dial than the VSF with the P.9000 clone, but these are nuances and personal preferences.
I am aware that the volume is not small, many moments are covered selectively, the principle of the story has changed to describe different movements, and the writing is unanimous throughout, which in general does not make this story the most convenient, but this was all done primarily to maintain constructiveness, logic and attempts to repeat famous topics as little as possible, especially since 95% of what is described here was discussed long before my appearance on the forum.
Therefore, I repeat, this is a description, but if someone really sees the meaning in this, it can be transformed into a more concise manual.
Anyway, if this doesn't come in handy for you personally, I hope you have had some pleasant time reading.
Thank you for your patience and attention, be healthy,
KOT.
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