So, are GMT Blueberries frankens officialy now?

[k4jun]

Geneva, October 28th 2019

Ref. Rolex 1675 #5172609


Sir,

We refer to your letter dated past October 17th that deserved our utmost attention.

Answering your question concerning your watch insert's colour, we inform you that to the best of our knowledge, ROLEX has never produced GMT's ref. 1675 with an all blue insert.

Meanwhile, the picture you've transmitted us does not allow to clearly distinguish between what you call to be a blue insert and a black insert, whose colour might have faded with time.

Remaining at your service for all complementary information, we ask you to receive, Sir, our best regards.

Isabelle Humm

 

[KJ2020]

 

[KJ2020]

 

[k4jun]

Yes, I know the story about UAE, Eastern markets and selected retailers.


https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-bl...blueberry.html
Bob tells the same and then he adds:

The reference 1675 “Blueberry” GMT ranks among the most rare and elusive of the various iterations of the GMT-Master that Rolex has produced throughout the decades. As the all-blue bezel insert was not something that Rolex formally offered to the public, production numbers were very small, and official records and information about these all-blue inserts is virtually non-existent. While it may initially appear to be a reference 1675 with an aftermarket bezel insert, the “Blueberry” GMT-Master was actually a watch that Rolex manufactured, and its all-blue bezel insert ranks among the rarest and collectible GMT inserts of all time.

So if there are no records, how do we know it is not BS?

 

[KJ2020]

Well, VIRTUALLY non-existent doesn't mean non-existent. In the video, the guy identifies the insert as a gen part. 4:55

Bob also says

the “Blueberry” GMT-Master was actually a watch that Rolex manufactured, and its all-blue bezel insert ranks among the rarest and collectible GMT inserts of all time.

The rarity could explain the scarcity of records. There are other examples of rare production models and versions that there is little or no documentation on. The albino 6542 for example.

I wouldn't call all of them Frankens. Many have aftermarket inserts for sure but the guy in the video sure indicates that the one he is displaying is a complete genuine, or at least all the parts are genuine.

Rolex policy on counterfeits is ridiculous anyway. If you change a single part to one that isn't identical to how the watch came from the factory, it's now a counterfeit by their definition.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Archi...with-quot-aftermarket-quot-parts/td-p/2434236

 

[k4jun]

Well, the guy in the video and Bob seems to be selling watches to earn for living, so I am taking their opinion with a pinch of salt
If those were not documented, how any watch dealer can examine them as gen parts? They can't, they can share own assumption as the opinion.

yodog tripdog is that true that gen inserts starts off as plain silver surface, then the colour is applied, hence it is impossible to scratch gen numerals like this?

 

[tripdog]

Well, the guy in the video and Bob seems to be selling watches to earn for living, so I am taking their opinion with a pinch of salt
If those were not documented, how any watch dealer can examine them as gen parts? They can't, they can share own assumption as the opinion.

yodog tripdog is that true that gen inserts starts off as plain silver surface, then the colour is applied, hence it is impossible to scratch gen numerals like this?

That is weird, I've never seen that before. On Rolex GMT and Sub inserts both the silver and colored part appear to be applied at the same time - I don't know if it's some type of special paint or if it's a type of anodising, but it's extremely resistant and you can't see any difference in height/thickness/level between the silver and the other color.

As for Blueberry inserts, all that I've seen on genuine 1675's all have the same font, are the same color blue and they do not fade, which strongly suggest that they were all made by the same manufacturer at the same time using the same process and materials - which pretty much backs up the story that a limited run of blue inserts was produced for Arab princes, air force pilots and good natured wizards.
I think they are probably genuine - most people said the albino dial 6542 wasn't genuine until somebody actually took one apart and proved that it was genuine.

 

[Nikz19]

This still has to be verified, but it’s something appeared on the most known italian forum.

Inviato dal mio iPhone 11 Pro utilizzando Tapatalk

 

[yodog]

Whats funny is that the guy (orchi) behind all of this on instagram yelling fake, is the guy that debunked the "albinos are fake" story. He owns a genuine albino dial that he always trounces around on forums and social media proving that it was a real prototype dial.

I follow the guy and he does make some good points - the insert numbers should not just rub off like that because they are anodized and pad printed simultaneously. I am more on the side that they were custom inserts made by some factory decades ago.

 

[KJ2020]

Rolex has occasionally sourced parts from outside factories - dials (Stern, Beyeler, Singer), movements (Valjoux, Zenith), etc. It's not a stretch to imagine the Blueberry inserts were outsourced but still approved by Rolex for use in the limited editions they appeared on. That would make them genuine in my book.

 

[mclarendude]

Interesting. I was always intrigued by Rolex's side of this story.

 

[altesporsche]

The blueberry never was. Prior to the early 2000's they were unheard of. then a boom of popularity and now the evidence suggests that they were nothing but someone trying to cash in or the rarity hype of the markets.

 

[KJ2020]

The blueberry never was. Prior to the early 2000's they were unheard of. then a boom of popularity and now the evidence suggests that they were nothing but someone trying to cash in or the rarity hype of the markets.

I don't believe that. No way such a long standing hoax could be perpetrated on millions of watch experts without being definitely debunked if not authentic. These samples have garnered very large sums at auctions.

Also no way some unknown factory got away with producing and widely distributing fake inserts that are perfect Rolex font copies without Rolex shutting them down and stepping in with counterfeit suits and/or claims every time one of these samples is presented for sale as genuine.

http://rolexpassionmarket.com/watches/rolex-gmt-master-1675-1971-blueberry-gmt-with-all-red-hand/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...er-to-be-auctioned-off-at-antiquorum-nyc/amp/

Rolex is quick to step in when their products are modified and sold as genuine. Rolex sues everyone - Invicta, Steinhart, Bamford. I don't accept that they would sit by idly and mute if these Blueberries were fake.

https://www.thefashionlaw.com/home/...ornienne-and-its-colorful-counterfeit-watches

 

[altesporsche]

I don't believe that. No way such a long standing hoax could be perpetrated on millions of watch experts without being definitely debunked if not authentic. These samples have garnered very large sums at auctions.

Also no way some unknown factory got away with producing and widely distributing fake inserts that are perfect Rolex font copies without Rolex shutting them down and stepping in with counterfeit suits and/or claims every time one of these samples is presented for sale as genuine.

http://rolexpassionmarket.com/watches/rolex-gmt-master-1675-1971-blueberry-gmt-with-all-red-hand/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...er-to-be-auctioned-off-at-antiquorum-nyc/amp/

Rolex is quick to step in when their products are modified and sold as genuine. Rolex sues everyone - Invicta, Steinhart, Bamford. I don't accept that they would sit by idly and mute if these Blueberries were fake.

https://www.thefashionlaw.com/home/...ornienne-and-its-colorful-counterfeit-watches

Then how is it that there is now a letter from Rolex directly stating they never made them. The tests that have been done on them to show that they are in fact not even anodised like every single other rolex inset made from aluminium. The people who originally started selling them around can be traced back to. There has been a ton of research done on this and the letter from Rolex as of recently also is a nail in the coffin. There is so much faked made up stuff out there of "special" rolexes that never existed and people still stupidly pay tons of money for them. Rolex has always had a bit of mystery and variants, but all are verifiable. the blueberry insert is not.

Hell even some high end dealers are offering for customers to return them for refunds or to come to an agreement before the lawsuits start.

We have to remember there has been a ton of faked stuff and parts watches sold at auctions in recent years because people simply didn't do the research or equally the one faking it did the research needed to ensure what they peddled was indeed believable to get that big cash payout. Ive seen panerais and rolexes hit crazy high selling prices and were blatantly made up watches... So to believe that the blueberry insert fooled thousands of "professionals" is very believable.

 

[tripdog]

Then how is it that there is now a letter from Rolex directly stating they never made them. The tests that have been done on them to show that they are in fact not even anodised like every single other rolex inset made from aluminium. The people who originally started selling them around can be traced back to. There has been a ton of research done on this and the letter from Rolex as of recently also is a nail in the coffin. There is so much faked made up stuff out there of "special" rolexes that never existed and people still stupidly pay tons of money for them. Rolex has always had a bit of mystery and variants, but all are verifiable. the blueberry insert is not.

Hell even some high end dealers are offering for customers to return them for refunds or to come to an agreement before the lawsuits start.

We have to remember there has been a ton of faked stuff and parts watches sold at auctions in recent years because people simply didn't do the research or equally the one faking it did the research needed to ensure what they peddled was indeed believable to get that big cash payout. Ive seen panerais and rolexes hit crazy high selling prices and were blatantly made up watches... So to believe that the blueberry insert fooled thousands of "professionals" is very believable.

Read the letter again:

"En réponse à votre question concernant la couleur de la lunette de votre montre, nous vous informons qu'à notre connaissance Rolex n'a jamais produit de GMT référence 1675 avec une lunette entièrement bleu".


Direct and exact translation:


'Answering your question concerning your watch insert's colour, we inform you that to the best of our knowledge, ROLEX has never produced GMT's ref. 1675 with an all blue insert'.


To the best of their knowledge - i.e. they do not know because they apparently don't keep records ( the only logical explanation) of what they've produced in the past.

 

[heska]

hence it is impossible to scratch gen numerals like this?

I have limited knowledge on rolex manufacturing process but a few on anodization, and if scratching like that is unlikely this could have been a manufacturing error (masking material that flake off before anodization))

 

[KJ2020]

You are referring to the letter posted in this thread? They didn't make a lot of dials or movements they used either so for them to say they didn't make them is not the same as saying they never outsourced them and approved their use. That they didn't make them could explain why they were made differently from all others, and why they might not want to be openly forthcoming about approving a part that in retrospect doesn't meet their quality standards.

And why would they allow their watches to be sold as genuine if they included fake inserts? I simply cannot accept that. They are hyper aggressive toward that activity. I would need to see much more evidence to be convinced that these inserts were never officially sanctioned by Rolex. And I would not be surprised if their current policy about them is to be vague and non-committal. If they truly are fake I cannot believe every dealer and aficionado wouldn't know that in a second. And it's not Rolex's way at all to see their watches sold as counterfeit. Which is what you are saying they are, by their definition.