CNY, raids, and general 'my order is taking too long' posts are everywhere. Hopefully I can clear some of this up. A lot of this is common sense, but hopefully it clears some stuff up.
Your TD is a Middleman
First major expectation new hobbyists need to get over is the reality TD's are middlemen. Your noob watch isn't being shipped by noob. Its being shipped by your TD. Some TD's carry limited inventory, but most do not.
Put it into perspective, your TD is a guy / gal or small business that may turn a small profit on each watch. Let us be bold and assume (this is way off and made up) they make 20% per purchase. Back of the envelope math says your TD must sell 4 watches with zero overhead to buy one watch to have in inventory.
I personally like to get paid for work, and employees wont work without being paid. It is completely impractical to expect a TD to hold substantial inventory if any at all. Substantial inventory also increases the risk of a a raid, dead inventory, and you need room for stock, all increasing cost. Plus, inventory runs the risk of QC. We all look for different things and holding stock is impractical when two people have different definitions of acceptable.
Middlemen is common in trading communities online. You send your half of a transaction to a middleman. The other side does the same. Once the middleman has both sides they are evaluated for being as promised and then shipped to the correct party. The middleman is paid a fee.
With Reps, your TD is holding your money until the factory provides an acceptable version of the item you were promissed. It could take the factory weeks to get you an 'as promissed' item. This is of no fault of your TD. This is the service you are paying for.
When buying Reps, you are looking for a middleman you trust or a middleman who offers service you value. Some TDs do carry stock of limited items with no QC. Some TD's have easy to use websites. Some TD's offer discounts.
A final bad analogy on this to drive the point home.
You are in the market for a rare strand of 'tobacco'. You go to your trusted neighborhood 'tobacco' dealer. Your 'tobacco' TD carries a small, diverse range of products but can 'hook you up'. You pay your TD and he tells you he needs to go to a special farm in Colorado, which will take two weeks.
He goes. And comes back. He says the 'tobacco' in stock wasnt good, and needs to wait three months for the next crop. After all, you want the hook up, right?
We all know you are not getting a refund from your 'tobacco dealer' / TD. You need to trust he will get what you want. If you piss off your 'tobacco dealer' he will just black list you and keep your money.
After all, your 'tobacco dealer' is providing an ILLEGAL service. Sure, you can own one ounce of 'tobacco' but he cant sell it or cross state or country lines. He does it, for you. The 'tobacco dealer' is your Rep TD. They are prodiving an illegal (to them) service. They dont need you, they need to trust you as much as you trust them. They do not make or grow the product but will get it.
When you get the 'tobacco' and you dont think it is right, your tobacco dealer normally tells you kick rocks. Your Rep TD needs the product back to determine if you broke it, or the factory messed up. Then your TD goes to the factory. Any other illegal enterprise would tell you to kick rocks. You are lucky that your dealer has a hook up with farms and if product is bad they will replace it. But they need it back.
A final note on this bad analogy, if you ask your 'tobacco dealer' for something special you pay what they tell you. RWI and our TD's provide competitive pricing. The one arguement you legitimately have when buying other goods, "I paid a premium for this" is null and void. The TD's are about the same price.
Shipping Counterfit Goods + Customs = Risk and Delay
Any time you ship a package that could contain counterfit goods you carry a risk. Shipping delays happen. Custom seizure happens.
Let's look at DHL. DHL recently adopted a policy of confiscation of replica / counterfit goods and they notify the countries custom agencies. Any private shipping company has the right to open, inspect or detain goods. This isnt customs, this is your shipping company.
I recently ordered two watch straps from Singapore. Nothing rep or counterfit. Shipping to the USA. It shipped DHL express. On day six, it arrived in the US and cleared customs. On day seven, it was 'held for inspection' in IL.
I called DHL and emailed. Email replied to after the item was delivered. When I called and confirmed my information I was told it was held for DHL inspection.
This only took a couple days, since I called and confirmed everything. If this were a Rep watch, I wouldnt call. It would be held and confiscated by DHL.
I have more experience with USPS shipping. From the US Custom website they advertise that holds normally do not take long, and can take 30 to 45 days. Internally at USPS, the rule is 30 days before notice sent to recipient and 60 days for customs to decide if they are holding or will do something with it.
That means your Rep can just sit in customs 30 days without you knowing why, and for no good reason. After 30 days, customs should give you a reason. But the notice can simply state held for inspection.
The kicker is NO ONE CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
I encourage everyone to call customs directly once and ask for help. It is an eye opening experience. They will often lie and blame the shipping company for having the package still, claim they can't track it, etc. The shipping companies can do nothing. The recipient can do nothing. The sender can do nothing. You literally must wait.
You can pay for a private company or triangle shipping. The problem with private is you still must pass customs clearance and also are subject to your shipping companies rules. Remember, a private company can decide to inspect and seize your goods.
Another huge note is the rules for global shipping and customs changes daily. Private carriers have there own rules. Governments have there own rules. Customs coordinate the rules of multiple government agencies in their country to decide what can enter or exit. Since global rules change daily, no TD has the time to keep up on your country, let alone how to safely get a package to you.
TD's use experience to do the best they can. You can't blame your TD if you item gets held. Between shipping and getting to you the private company can change rules and Governments can pass laws.
In summary, customs sucks. 30 day plus holds can just happen. No one can do anything. Private shipping has risk. None of this is your TD's fault or responsibility. Nor should your TD call as it is a legal risk to do so.
The Amazon Effect
Those in the USA are spoiled. I am as well. I can order almost anything and have it to my door in 2 days. I can order a custom watch or watch strap and have it in 30 days or less.
If your are not happy with a product and call / email / text Amazon they normally send you a refund and let you keep the item. Amazon works 24/7. Those custom watch makers and modders are going out of business because of this, they can't compete.
But we expect our TD's to operate like Amazon. You can order on Christmas Day and get your item in two days from Amazon. Customer Service is working 24 / 7. They are never closed.
You then try to buy a Rep watch. First you need bitcoin, transferwire or my hated Western Union. You send money and feel like you are ordering a mail order bride. Then you wait for funds to clear.
After that your Middleman / TD goes to get your watch. It takes a few days. Your Amazon mentality and western 'customer is always right' mentality expects QC that day.
What you dont see is your TD ordered the watch and noob sent a dumpster fire over. It did not pass QC so they sent it back. Noob then needs five days to get a replacement. Your emails go unanswered or you get copy and paste replies. Keep in mind, your TD doesnt have an answer, and often may not natively speak your language.
You finally get QC and it looks good, so you approve. It doesn't ship that day. Or the next. Or the next. You email twice.
Private 'non traceable' shipping 3rd parties is flaky. They go down all the time. They randomly decline payment information. A day delay happens even if your watch is packed up.
You panic. It has been a week. You send another email and post on a support forum (RWI).
This is the Amazon Effect. 20 years ago you ordered online and it took 7 - 14 days in the US for instock items. Companies did not send you ten emails about the order. We didn't have apps to track shipping. If you ordered out of the country you just waited. And one day it may arrive.
Amazon is a monopoly selling legal goods. Buying Reps is more akin to shopping on the deep web. You send bitcoin and get your product eventually. You dont know the guys real name you are buying from. He isnt going to answer emails.
This is not Amazon. I don't care if your TD gives you a firsr name and has a neat website. You are dealing with a mom and pop illegal good seller. Those ten emails and complaints on a forum will not only get your TD to not help you, it will make people reluctant to work with you.
CNY and Raids
We were not all lurkers for years and most of us have not done our research. But you really should.
Chinese New Year happens every year. The TDs sometimes still work but Factories do not. You will not get a watch shipped to you during CNY and I guarantee shipping and customs slows down.
Your TD can do nothing to help you. It is a National and cultural holiday. If you are catholic it is like working Easter and Christmas. I could go down the religious list and point out Passover, Ramadan, etc. But even National holidays like the 4th of July in the US. It is all wrapped together in China.
Those underpaid workers in a factory for 10 plus hours a day, 7 days a week, deserve two weeks off. If you disagree or want to complain, no one will help you. You are the bad guy.
I try to get any 'New Year' order in by the 5th of January. Then I wait til March. I expect QC issues, delays, etc. I also expect production to slow down. This year I was late and my watches most likely will not make CNY. It happens all the time.
After CNY your TD will start going through emails and catching up. The factories will slowly resume production. But it is another delay.
Raids are another animal. That 'tobacco dealer' analogy applies. If another 'tobacco dealer' is arrested, your TD is going to lay low. If a farm is raided, the competition will get out of town for a few weeks until the dust clears.
The TD hit may return to work, but not always. The farm, or factory, may be gone for good. This has happened before. It is unfortunate, but it happened this year.
To put it into perspective for those impatient US folks, this is like when a distillary was raided during prohibition. The police and FBI had periods of time where they did DAYS of continous raids. One distillery to the next.
Do you think the other distilleries kept doing business as usual and continued to sell to the same people who could have turned them in? No. The boss laid low, workers stayed home.
This raid could be a sweep or a one of. We dont know. If history tells you anything, it doesn't matter if you pay off local law enforcement if the Feds come in.
Your TD is a modern day, family owned, distillery during prohibition. They send there people home when another factory is raided. They also give there people the big holidays off to be with family.
Realistic Expectations
Realistic Expectations of the buying of counterfit goods are to be grateful you have a source backed by a forum. A forum who could kick the TD off and tell the sister forum about.
We have no guarantees of time or safety. Your TD is not Amazon. Your TD is a man or woman selling illegal goods. Customer service? You are lucky to get anything.
Our TDs here are absolutely amazing. That is a fact. We all have favorites, but none are bad.
I am the least patient person on earth. It doesnt change the fact that we are lucky to get a reply at all from a TD.
My final warning is to expect the worst. Expect a 30 day custom hold. Expect to have a few rejected QC watches. Expect funds to take three days to clear. Expect your non native English speaking TD to respond to you when they have news. But absolutely do not expect an Amazon or legal good experience. It won't happen.
*I used terms like tobacco and heavily edited this to be sensitive. But we all know I wanted to talk about the devils lettuce. body building drugs, and fake passports.
Your TD is a Middleman
First major expectation new hobbyists need to get over is the reality TD's are middlemen. Your noob watch isn't being shipped by noob. Its being shipped by your TD. Some TD's carry limited inventory, but most do not.
Put it into perspective, your TD is a guy / gal or small business that may turn a small profit on each watch. Let us be bold and assume (this is way off and made up) they make 20% per purchase. Back of the envelope math says your TD must sell 4 watches with zero overhead to buy one watch to have in inventory.
I personally like to get paid for work, and employees wont work without being paid. It is completely impractical to expect a TD to hold substantial inventory if any at all. Substantial inventory also increases the risk of a a raid, dead inventory, and you need room for stock, all increasing cost. Plus, inventory runs the risk of QC. We all look for different things and holding stock is impractical when two people have different definitions of acceptable.
Middlemen is common in trading communities online. You send your half of a transaction to a middleman. The other side does the same. Once the middleman has both sides they are evaluated for being as promised and then shipped to the correct party. The middleman is paid a fee.
With Reps, your TD is holding your money until the factory provides an acceptable version of the item you were promissed. It could take the factory weeks to get you an 'as promissed' item. This is of no fault of your TD. This is the service you are paying for.
When buying Reps, you are looking for a middleman you trust or a middleman who offers service you value. Some TDs do carry stock of limited items with no QC. Some TD's have easy to use websites. Some TD's offer discounts.
A final bad analogy on this to drive the point home.
You are in the market for a rare strand of 'tobacco'. You go to your trusted neighborhood 'tobacco' dealer. Your 'tobacco' TD carries a small, diverse range of products but can 'hook you up'. You pay your TD and he tells you he needs to go to a special farm in Colorado, which will take two weeks.
He goes. And comes back. He says the 'tobacco' in stock wasnt good, and needs to wait three months for the next crop. After all, you want the hook up, right?
We all know you are not getting a refund from your 'tobacco dealer' / TD. You need to trust he will get what you want. If you piss off your 'tobacco dealer' he will just black list you and keep your money.
After all, your 'tobacco dealer' is providing an ILLEGAL service. Sure, you can own one ounce of 'tobacco' but he cant sell it or cross state or country lines. He does it, for you. The 'tobacco dealer' is your Rep TD. They are prodiving an illegal (to them) service. They dont need you, they need to trust you as much as you trust them. They do not make or grow the product but will get it.
When you get the 'tobacco' and you dont think it is right, your tobacco dealer normally tells you kick rocks. Your Rep TD needs the product back to determine if you broke it, or the factory messed up. Then your TD goes to the factory. Any other illegal enterprise would tell you to kick rocks. You are lucky that your dealer has a hook up with farms and if product is bad they will replace it. But they need it back.
A final note on this bad analogy, if you ask your 'tobacco dealer' for something special you pay what they tell you. RWI and our TD's provide competitive pricing. The one arguement you legitimately have when buying other goods, "I paid a premium for this" is null and void. The TD's are about the same price.
Shipping Counterfit Goods + Customs = Risk and Delay
Any time you ship a package that could contain counterfit goods you carry a risk. Shipping delays happen. Custom seizure happens.
Let's look at DHL. DHL recently adopted a policy of confiscation of replica / counterfit goods and they notify the countries custom agencies. Any private shipping company has the right to open, inspect or detain goods. This isnt customs, this is your shipping company.
I recently ordered two watch straps from Singapore. Nothing rep or counterfit. Shipping to the USA. It shipped DHL express. On day six, it arrived in the US and cleared customs. On day seven, it was 'held for inspection' in IL.
I called DHL and emailed. Email replied to after the item was delivered. When I called and confirmed my information I was told it was held for DHL inspection.
This only took a couple days, since I called and confirmed everything. If this were a Rep watch, I wouldnt call. It would be held and confiscated by DHL.
I have more experience with USPS shipping. From the US Custom website they advertise that holds normally do not take long, and can take 30 to 45 days. Internally at USPS, the rule is 30 days before notice sent to recipient and 60 days for customs to decide if they are holding or will do something with it.
That means your Rep can just sit in customs 30 days without you knowing why, and for no good reason. After 30 days, customs should give you a reason. But the notice can simply state held for inspection.
The kicker is NO ONE CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT.
I encourage everyone to call customs directly once and ask for help. It is an eye opening experience. They will often lie and blame the shipping company for having the package still, claim they can't track it, etc. The shipping companies can do nothing. The recipient can do nothing. The sender can do nothing. You literally must wait.
You can pay for a private company or triangle shipping. The problem with private is you still must pass customs clearance and also are subject to your shipping companies rules. Remember, a private company can decide to inspect and seize your goods.
Another huge note is the rules for global shipping and customs changes daily. Private carriers have there own rules. Governments have there own rules. Customs coordinate the rules of multiple government agencies in their country to decide what can enter or exit. Since global rules change daily, no TD has the time to keep up on your country, let alone how to safely get a package to you.
TD's use experience to do the best they can. You can't blame your TD if you item gets held. Between shipping and getting to you the private company can change rules and Governments can pass laws.
In summary, customs sucks. 30 day plus holds can just happen. No one can do anything. Private shipping has risk. None of this is your TD's fault or responsibility. Nor should your TD call as it is a legal risk to do so.
The Amazon Effect
Those in the USA are spoiled. I am as well. I can order almost anything and have it to my door in 2 days. I can order a custom watch or watch strap and have it in 30 days or less.
If your are not happy with a product and call / email / text Amazon they normally send you a refund and let you keep the item. Amazon works 24/7. Those custom watch makers and modders are going out of business because of this, they can't compete.
But we expect our TD's to operate like Amazon. You can order on Christmas Day and get your item in two days from Amazon. Customer Service is working 24 / 7. They are never closed.
You then try to buy a Rep watch. First you need bitcoin, transferwire or my hated Western Union. You send money and feel like you are ordering a mail order bride. Then you wait for funds to clear.
After that your Middleman / TD goes to get your watch. It takes a few days. Your Amazon mentality and western 'customer is always right' mentality expects QC that day.
What you dont see is your TD ordered the watch and noob sent a dumpster fire over. It did not pass QC so they sent it back. Noob then needs five days to get a replacement. Your emails go unanswered or you get copy and paste replies. Keep in mind, your TD doesnt have an answer, and often may not natively speak your language.
You finally get QC and it looks good, so you approve. It doesn't ship that day. Or the next. Or the next. You email twice.
Private 'non traceable' shipping 3rd parties is flaky. They go down all the time. They randomly decline payment information. A day delay happens even if your watch is packed up.
You panic. It has been a week. You send another email and post on a support forum (RWI).
This is the Amazon Effect. 20 years ago you ordered online and it took 7 - 14 days in the US for instock items. Companies did not send you ten emails about the order. We didn't have apps to track shipping. If you ordered out of the country you just waited. And one day it may arrive.
Amazon is a monopoly selling legal goods. Buying Reps is more akin to shopping on the deep web. You send bitcoin and get your product eventually. You dont know the guys real name you are buying from. He isnt going to answer emails.
This is not Amazon. I don't care if your TD gives you a firsr name and has a neat website. You are dealing with a mom and pop illegal good seller. Those ten emails and complaints on a forum will not only get your TD to not help you, it will make people reluctant to work with you.
CNY and Raids
We were not all lurkers for years and most of us have not done our research. But you really should.
Chinese New Year happens every year. The TDs sometimes still work but Factories do not. You will not get a watch shipped to you during CNY and I guarantee shipping and customs slows down.
Your TD can do nothing to help you. It is a National and cultural holiday. If you are catholic it is like working Easter and Christmas. I could go down the religious list and point out Passover, Ramadan, etc. But even National holidays like the 4th of July in the US. It is all wrapped together in China.
Those underpaid workers in a factory for 10 plus hours a day, 7 days a week, deserve two weeks off. If you disagree or want to complain, no one will help you. You are the bad guy.
I try to get any 'New Year' order in by the 5th of January. Then I wait til March. I expect QC issues, delays, etc. I also expect production to slow down. This year I was late and my watches most likely will not make CNY. It happens all the time.
After CNY your TD will start going through emails and catching up. The factories will slowly resume production. But it is another delay.
Raids are another animal. That 'tobacco dealer' analogy applies. If another 'tobacco dealer' is arrested, your TD is going to lay low. If a farm is raided, the competition will get out of town for a few weeks until the dust clears.
The TD hit may return to work, but not always. The farm, or factory, may be gone for good. This has happened before. It is unfortunate, but it happened this year.
To put it into perspective for those impatient US folks, this is like when a distillary was raided during prohibition. The police and FBI had periods of time where they did DAYS of continous raids. One distillery to the next.
Do you think the other distilleries kept doing business as usual and continued to sell to the same people who could have turned them in? No. The boss laid low, workers stayed home.
This raid could be a sweep or a one of. We dont know. If history tells you anything, it doesn't matter if you pay off local law enforcement if the Feds come in.
Your TD is a modern day, family owned, distillery during prohibition. They send there people home when another factory is raided. They also give there people the big holidays off to be with family.
Realistic Expectations
Realistic Expectations of the buying of counterfit goods are to be grateful you have a source backed by a forum. A forum who could kick the TD off and tell the sister forum about.
We have no guarantees of time or safety. Your TD is not Amazon. Your TD is a man or woman selling illegal goods. Customer service? You are lucky to get anything.
Our TDs here are absolutely amazing. That is a fact. We all have favorites, but none are bad.
I am the least patient person on earth. It doesnt change the fact that we are lucky to get a reply at all from a TD.
My final warning is to expect the worst. Expect a 30 day custom hold. Expect to have a few rejected QC watches. Expect funds to take three days to clear. Expect your non native English speaking TD to respond to you when they have news. But absolutely do not expect an Amazon or legal good experience. It won't happen.
*I used terms like tobacco and heavily edited this to be sensitive. But we all know I wanted to talk about the devils lettuce. body building drugs, and fake passports.
