please have a close look and share your thoughts...
http://cgi.ebay.de/PANERAI-ROLEX-Kampfs ... dZViewItem
http://cgi.ebay.de/PANERAI-ROLEX-Kampfs ... dZViewItem
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scam or real ...RARE PANERAI [gipsfrisur]
- Thread starter horologie_unitas
- Start date
Re: scam or real ...RARE PANERAI
Something I don't usually do... repeating myself...
Looking at it, as closely as possible from the poor pictures...
Studying the available ebay purchasing habits of the seller...
I am of the opinion that while the majority of the parts may very well be original, the seller probably assembled this watch himself.
The movement, although hard to see, has accumulated a LOT of nearly parallel scratches (at nearly right angles to the Geneva Striping), meaning it was probably uncased for a very long time and stored poorly... or was packaged and shipped poorly... however, it is mostly bright and doesn't show a lot of other age that we would expect to see (check the wheel finish opposed to the scraped up bridges)
Compare the Crown against the Case... crown is well worn and nicked... case is nearly unblemished, but doesn't look 'polished', case back is nicely scratched...
And, if the dial is aged, as it is, from an apparently compromised case... where is the similar damage and age to the hands? (and movement, for that matter)?
Something I don't usually do... repeating myself...
Looking at it, as closely as possible from the poor pictures...
Studying the available ebay purchasing habits of the seller...
I am of the opinion that while the majority of the parts may very well be original, the seller probably assembled this watch himself.
The movement, although hard to see, has accumulated a LOT of nearly parallel scratches (at nearly right angles to the Geneva Striping), meaning it was probably uncased for a very long time and stored poorly... or was packaged and shipped poorly... however, it is mostly bright and doesn't show a lot of other age that we would expect to see (check the wheel finish opposed to the scraped up bridges)
Compare the Crown against the Case... crown is well worn and nicked... case is nearly unblemished, but doesn't look 'polished', case back is nicely scratched...
And, if the dial is aged, as it is, from an apparently compromised case... where is the similar damage and age to the hands? (and movement, for that matter)?
Re: scam or real ...RARE PANERAI
i doubt there was a KAMPFSCHWIMMER Gruppe in 1945. the war was over in 03 / 45
the movement is a gen ROLEX, but easy to be found in Rolex pocket watches.
i doubt there was a KAMPFSCHWIMMER Gruppe in 1945. the war was over in 03 / 45
the movement is a gen ROLEX, but easy to be found in Rolex pocket watches.
Re: scam or real ...RARE PANERAI
I think hommade cooking watch. Look at the engraves at the back Do you think that is it real...?
Find a pocket watck disassable, than replace a new case by using new hands..........
Com'mon look at the hands, they are quite new and also the dial. No scract no ding no oxide.........
If so Here are my 35.000 Eur valued vintage PAM's.
I think hommade cooking watch. Look at the engraves at the back Do you think that is it real...?
Find a pocket watck disassable, than replace a new case by using new hands..........
Com'mon look at the hands, they are quite new and also the dial. No scract no ding no oxide.........
If so Here are my 35.000 Eur valued vintage PAM's.
Re: scam or real ...RARE PANERAI
H_U, the Kampfschwimmer Gruppe were active to the very end of German operations in the war... actually, even after initial surrender * (May, not March)..
The actual timetable of events was roughly...
May 1, 1945 - German forces in Italy surrender...
May 2, 1945 - German forces in Berlin surrender...
May 4, 1945 - German forces in North West Germany, Denmark and Holland surrender (*)
May 5, 1945 - U Boats and remainder of Naval forces cease operation (*)
May 6, 1945 - Breslau falls to Soviets, one hour later remaining German Generals surrender unconditionally...
horologie_unitas said:
H_U, the Kampfschwimmer Gruppe were active to the very end of German operations in the war... actually, even after initial surrender * (May, not March)..
The actual timetable of events was roughly...
May 1, 1945 - German forces in Italy surrender...
May 2, 1945 - German forces in Berlin surrender...
May 4, 1945 - German forces in North West Germany, Denmark and Holland surrender (*)
May 5, 1945 - U Boats and remainder of Naval forces cease operation (*)
May 6, 1945 - Breslau falls to Soviets, one hour later remaining German Generals surrender unconditionally...
Re: scam or real ...RARE PANERAI
Sorry, his is a bit more believable than yours... even though his is still a bit questionable...
As far as "1945" Kampschwimmer engravings... his is fairly consistent, although a bit less detail (gruppe #) than most.. there are several "1945" engraved watches with good provenance floating around out there...
http://www.paneristi.com/reference/vintage.html
zarkon said:
Sorry, his is a bit more believable than yours... even though his is still a bit questionable...
As far as "1945" Kampschwimmer engravings... his is fairly consistent, although a bit less detail (gruppe #) than most.. there are several "1945" engraved watches with good provenance floating around out there...
http://www.paneristi.com/reference/vintage.html
Re: scam or real ...RARE PANERAI
Potr my friend
Ofcourse mines are for may taste. My intention had never been to scammed some one If would beleive me It would be 100 times better than his watch. (Irony)All I can try to say that It didnt looked me a gen with that dial and hands.
Potr my friend
Ofcourse mines are for may taste. My intention had never been to scammed some one If would beleive me It would be 100 times better than his watch. (Irony)All I can try to say that It didnt looked me a gen with that dial and hands.