Rolex Bubbleback Projects --

[RoXeW22]

I am embarking on another set of watch builds, as the vintage watch bug has really bit me. This time it's the Bubblebacks
I am working on 2 bubbleback builds -- one will be an homage, but the other will be a proper Rolex Replica.

While I initially wanted to purchase a vintage Bubbleback, I quickly realized that servicing and maintenance would be difficult, given age and parts availability. I then shifted to bubbleback homages, and just had an opportunity to purchase the best ETA Bubbleback rep I could find (thanks @automatico). Here are the details. Build #1 is a Dial Swap and straightforward. Build #2 is more complex and I'd appreciate forum input.

1) Scientific Sector Dial Bubbleback Homage (Dial swap) --If you're familiar with Incipio, these were watches from the 90s that were given away by Japan's Watch Begin Magazine via reader raffles submissions -- there were about 10 watches in the series, all historical homages (Bubbleback, Explorer 1016, Milgauss 6541, Mil-Sub, Calatrava, Rolex Prince etc..). My base watch is the Incipio 6, which is already a fairly faithful homage to the Rolex Scientific models of yesteryear. For more about Incipio, here's a good article about the 1016 model

Specs for this watch are:

• 31mm case diameter
• screw-down crown
• ETA 2671 with movement spacer
• Scientific Step Dial
• Blued Hour/Minutes Hands and Red Seconds Hand

Scientific Dials, AKA Sector Dials, have a distinct vintage look and I wanted something a bit different to add to my collection.
Here's a picture of the Incipio VS the vintage Rolex sector/scientific dials that have inspired me. You can see that some of the Scientific Dials did indeed have the same style hands and step dial





However after wearing it for a little bit, I realized I wanted a different dial. While I liked the step dial, I wasn't crazy about the salmon color and some of the design elements. So I dug further, looking up vintage and modern sector dial watches by Omega, Longines, JLC, and Patek -- all fodder for inspiration.



Design Process: Using my digital design knowledge, I got to sketching and outlining. This led to a deep dive into vintage watch typography to try to find the closest typefaces that are most similar to vintage 40s Rolex or similar watches of that type (hint: Georgia) and custom-tracing numerals from vintage watch pictures.

Here's an example below of some Rolex-style designs I had explored.


I'm currently working with a dial refinisher to refinish the existing dial with my updated design and will be happy to share once it's done (fingers crossed).

 

[RoXeW22]

Build I am seeking guidance about:

2) Bubbleback 5015 Replica (Considering Dial, Casework, Movement work, modding etc.)
This is the more complex project. Here's why. The watch is a Japanese aftermarket Bubbleback copy, the likes of which you may have seen on eBay or randomly mentioned in watch forums. While the gen 5015 has a engine-tuned bezel and a screw-in crown, this model has:

• 32mm case size
• Polished Case and Smooth Bezel
• Older ETA Movement (2789-1)

I'd like this watch to be more of my "replica" build with a California Dial -- I'd like to do a lot more customization and would appreciate input on the following:

1. Who can produce a Gilt Dial with Step Numerals -- I'd like this one to have a gilt error-proof 'California Dial', so while I can handle the design, I need someone who can create a gilt relief dial with recessed numerals and fill them in with lume cleanly
2. Who can brush this case and make it more gen-like -- I'd like to brush the case and leave the polished sides, so that it looks closer to gen bubblebacks--LAWW(?)
3. Crown / Tube -- I'm 50/50 on keeping the push-in crown as is VS changing it to a screw-in crown, but that would likely require paying $$$ for gen or aftermarket gen-spec bubbleback crown/tubes, which are not readily available -- any thoughts here?
4. Replace this Movement or keep it? -- This has a older ETA 2789-1 movement that needs a service at a minimum -- while I like the low-beat, I wonder if there's a newer low-beat ETA that I could replace it with..which brings into question what type of movement will actually fit this case and how to figure that out (height, diameter etc.)
   1. If I do change the movement, will I need a movement spacer and how easy is it to make one for a case...?
5. Modder who can work with me on this -- I'd need to work with someone who is willing to step into this kind of project and be able to take measurements to help me figure out the proper dial, proper movement replacements etc.

Here's a preview of the Gilt Dial I have designed so far (still work in progress, but nearly complete). Again, I followed the same process as i outlined above -- looked up a bunch of vintage Bubblebacks, and started designing.

 

[RoXeW22]

Here is an example of the kind of gilt dial I would like to have produced (this is from HF member Fizzz)...although I am also wondering if not doing the recessed numerals would be more straightforward as well. I'd need a skilled luming person, preferably US or EU-based, if anyone has recommendations

I've heard HF member madasboot (Marco) can do good work, but haven't had success reaching him as of late.

@kilowattore showcased their gilt dial work in this 6538 build thread: https://forum.replica-watch.info/th...-to-forums-dedication.10940151/#post-11239416

 

[matzemedia]

Nice idea! Following with interest. Can you please share the typo you used for the R o l e x letters. I am still searching for the best fit.

 

[RoXeW22]

Nice idea! Following with interest. Can you please share the typo you used for the R o l e x letters. I am still searching for the best fit.

The closest typeface I've found is Georgia as a starting base, but then I had to hand-draw / modify the individual letters -- vintage Rolex typefaces are never printed very cleanly, and the older the reference, the more imperfections the typeface will show, close-up. There's always idiosyncratic details (which had to do with the limitations of dial printing technology) -- like the flat As or 4s, for instance.

Some examples of older Rolex typefaces to illustrate.

Georgia-style Typeface (30s-40s Rolex) --
This often matches best with older Rolexes, where the font is semi-curved
While Georgia is a close match in terms of spacing, you can see that most vintage Rolex have a vertically squashed, slightly stretched typeface, with much sharper, triangular serifs.

On the top is the original VS a mock-up I made

 

[RoXeW22]

Also, does anyone know a good source to find these Bubbleback style Mercedes Hands to fit an ETA movement (assuming it would have to be .90/1.5/.25mm hands?) These would be fitted to the California Dial.

They are Zerograph hands, if you will, with a Mercedes Hour Hand and a expanded seconds hand and a particular seconds pointer.

Examples below, although they should be blued, rather than gilt

 

[Reaps]

Lo

Also, does anyone know a good source to find these Bubbleback style Mercedes Hands to fit an ETA movement (assuming it would have to be .90/1.5/.25mm hands?) These would be fitted to the California Dial.

They are Zerograph hands, if you will, with a Mercedes Hour Hand and a expanded seconds hand and a particular seconds pointer.

Examples below, although they should be blued, rather than gilt

Look on aliexpress

 

[RoXeW22]

Hmmm....I started looking there, but I just see the standard pencil seconds hand so far, which is not what I am looking for.
Also seeing a lot of longer hands, when I need something that will fit a 25mm dial

 

[Reaps]

Hmmm....I started looking there, but I just see the standard pencil seconds hand so far, which is not what I am looking for.
Also seeing a lot of longer hands, when I need something that will fit a 25mm dial

Mix and match. Also find a popular store and ask if they carry what you want.

 

[matzemedia]

The closest typeface I've found is Georgia as a starting base, but then I had to hand-draw / modify the individual letters -- vintage Rolex typefaces are never printed very cleanly, and the older the reference, the more imperfections the typeface will show, close-up. There's always idiosyncratic details (which had to do with the limitations of dial printing technology) -- like the flat As or 4s, for instance.

Thanks for your answer. It sounds like you are doing it the same way as I do. Georgia is new for me. I often use "Baskerville" for the serive typo and "Charger Monospace" for the plain typo.

 

[Alkay3]

This is my original 1945 3372 Bubbleback. My grandfather gave this to my dad for Christmas 1945 and he left it to me. I wish there were more 4-digit early models available, as I think there are a certain number of that like them! If you need any measurements that might help please let me know. Anxious to see your progress!

 

[RoXeW22]

Thanks for your answer. It sounds like you are doing it the same way as I do. Georgia is new for me. I often use "Baskerville" for the serive typo and "Charger Monospace" for the plain typo.

Interesting @matzemedia !
For 50s-70s Rolex, it's a bit of a mess. I'll have to check out Baskerville and Charger Monospace next. Do you have any examples of the vintage text you've drawn up?

I have found that for neo-vintage Rolex and modern, Copperplate or Gotham Book can be good starting points. See my modified efforts below.

This is my original 1945 3372 Bubbleback. My grandfather gave this to my dad for Christmas 1945 and he left it to me. I wish there were more 4-digit early models available, as I think there are a certain number of that like them! If you need any measurements that might help please let me know. Anxious to see your progress!

@Alkay3 Damn that is beautiful and glad to see it's been passed down multiple generations. Is the case Yellow Gold or Rose Gold? I love that bezel design and if you know where I can get a strap like that, I think it's the exact style I'd want for my Bubbleback project.

As for measurements, you wouldn't happen to know the lengths of the hands, would you? I can assume that your model is 32mm, so the dial is probably ~25mm or so (most Bubblebacks were about that size). Since I don't have the tools to take apart my Bubbleback Rep, I can't really determine dial size, which is a PITA right now, since I also need to figure out movement replacements and other stuff...

 

[Alkay3]

Interesting @matzemedia !
For 50s-70s Rolex, it's a bit of a mess. I'll have to check out Baskerville and Charger Monospace next. Do you have any examples of the vintage text you've drawn up?

I have found that for neo-vintage Rolex and modern, Copperplate or Gotham Book can be good starting points. See my modified efforts below.






@Alkay3 Damn that is beautiful and glad to see it's been passed down multiple generations. Is the case Yellow Gold or Rose Gold? I love that bezel design and if you know where I can get a strap like that, I think it's the exact style I'd want for my Bubbleback project.

As for measurements, you wouldn't happen to know the lengths of the hands, would you? I can assume that your model is 32mm, so the dial is probably ~25mm or so (most Bubblebacks were about that size). Since I don't have the tools to take apart my Bubbleback Rep, I can't really determine dial size, which is a PITA right now, since I also need to figure out movement replacements and other stuff...

The strap I had made by Matteo Torre in Italy. He is about the best at early model straps. Pretty reasonable too. He can be reached on Messenger at Torrestraps. Let me do some measuring and I’ll get back to you.

 

[Alkay3]

Interesting @matzemedia !
For 50s-70s Rolex, it's a bit of a mess. I'll have to check out Baskerville and Charger Monospace next. Do you have any examples of the vintage text you've drawn up?

I have found that for neo-vintage Rolex and modern, Copperplate or Gotham Book can be good starting points. See my modified efforts below.






@Alkay3 Damn that is beautiful and glad to see it's been passed down multiple generations. Is the case Yellow Gold or Rose Gold? I love that bezel design and if you know where I can get a strap like that, I think it's the exact style I'd want for my Bubbleback project.

As for measurements, you wouldn't happen to know the lengths of the hands, would you? I can assume that your model is 32mm, so the dial is probably ~25mm or so (most Bubblebacks were about that size). Since I don't have the tools to take apart my Bubbleback Rep, I can't really determine dial size, which is a PITA right now, since I also need to figure out movement replacements and other stuff...

The case is 42mm. Hour hand is around 8mm, minute is 11 and second 13. Those are approximate measurements as I am just measuring through the crystal and not opening it up. Hope that helps.

 

[Alkay3]

The case is 42mm. Hour hand is around 8mm, minute is 11 and second 13. Those are approximate measurements as I am just measuring through the crystal and not opening it up. Hope that helps.

Case is 32mm, damn fat fingers!

 

[Reaps]

[FOR SALE] - FS: Franken Rolex 6084 semi bubbleback build [US]

Hello RWI watch fans, I hope everyone had a great Holiday season and New Year! I'm back on the forum after a long break from watches. My watch collection has grown over the last 10 years so I do need to purge. I am putting up my Franken Rolex 6084 semi bubbleback build. 34mm size , It has a...

forum.replica-watch.info

 

[RoXeW22]

Thanks @Reaps --I did see the semi-bubbleback and bubbleback that @nycrounders was selling. Unfortunately, I'm not as big of a fan of the 6084, and I had my hopes up for his 2940, but his case is marked "5015" -- so it's likely similar to the case set I already have.

​

Here's the progress I've made so far:​

Secured Replacement ETA Movement​

I managed to find a replacement movement for my Bubbleback watch -- a NOS ETA 2782 movement that comes serviced(!). I'll have to have a watchmaker remove the date parts and install it, but I'm confident it should fit this Bubbleback case OK, since most of the movements used for this case tend to be around the same size

Almost done with California Dial Design​

Besides some last-minute tweaking of the dial font, I'm nearing the final design -- just exploring variations at this point (e.g. dials with the coronet, dials without the coronet, double-signed dials etc.)

Am hoping to have Fizzz at Homage Forum create this for me --just need suggestions on someone who can lume/finish the dial

Sourcing a Period-Correct Strap​

Big thanks to @Alkay3 for bringing Torre Straps to my attention -- I may just end up ordering a strap from him or someone similar -- someone who can create a thinner, box-stitched leather strap at 17mm.

Just curious @Alkay3 -- If your lugs are 17mm or so on your bubbleback -- what is your buckle width? I am thinking having a taper to 14mm or 15mm would be nice, but I see a lot of 17/16 straps -- which feels like no taper at all

 

[Alkay3]

Thanks @Reaps --I did see the semi-bubbleback and bubbleback that @nycrounders was selling. Unfortunately, I'm not as big of a fan of the 6084, and I had my hopes up for his 2940, but his case is marked "5015" -- so it's likely similar to the case set I already have.

​

Here's an update on where I am with the project now -- would appreciate any insights​

What about using a Gen Bubbleback case?​

While I have found a few listings for spare gen Bubbleback cases, the issue is always wondering how to make an ETA movement fit. If I understand correctly, to build a Bubbleback franken with a gen case, I'd have to:

1. Obtain the case and determine measurements
2. Add an ETA movement and see how far off we are
3. Translate those measurements into a movement holder that will need to be custom designed and 3D-printed (1 of 1)

Is that right? IF so...that sounds tempting, but also incredibly complex, especially when I have no experience figuring that stuff out.
I figured people built frankens in the past using gen bubbleback cases, but I have seen ZERO from scouring online :/

How do I source a dial blank to be used?​

Since I'm using an ETA 278X movement (see below), I'm going to need a new dial blank to provide to the dial maker that will fit this dial. Unfortunately, the ETA 28XX dial feet won't work with this movement. I already know I'll likely need a 25mm dial, but still at a loss as to how to source a dial blank. I have a HUNCH -- that if I took a 25mm ETA 28XX dial blank and just rotated it a bit, it would work...because as long as nothing is yet printed, it wouldn't cause an issue, right?

Here's a reference diagram I found showing the difference in dial feet between an ETA 27XX vs ETA 28XX -- any insights on how to use this to figure it out?

Replacement Movement secured​

I managed to find a replacement movement for my Bubbleback watch -- a NOS ETA 2782 movement that comes serviced(!). I'll have to have a watchmaker remove the date parts and install it, but I'm confident it should fit this Bubbleback case OK, since most of the movements used for this case tend to be around the same size

Almost Completed Dial Design​

Besides some last-minute tweaking of the dial font, I'm nearing the final design -- just exploring variations at this point (e.g. dials with the coronet, dials without the coronet, double-signed dials etc.)

Sourcing a Period-Correct Strap​

Big thanks to @Alkay3 for bringing Torre Straps to my attention -- I may just end up ordering a strap from him or someone similar -- someone who can create a thinner, box-stitched leather strap at 17mm.

Just curious @Alkay3 -- If your lugs are 17mm or so on your bubbleback -- what is your buckle width? I am thinking having a taper to 14mm or 15mm would be nice, but I see a lot of 17/16 straps -- which feels like no taper at all

It tapers down to 14mm at the buckle and I was able to source an gen gold buckle. I did a lot of research and Torre Straps seems to be a guy who knows the most about straps styles, fabric, stitching and colors for 1930's-50's. I have as many compliments on the strap as I do the watch itself. And very reasonable; IIRC around $115-125.

 

[RoXeW22]

It tapers down to 14mm at the buckle and I was able to source an gen gold buckle. I did a lot of research and Torre Straps seems to be a guy who knows the most about straps styles, fabric, stitching and colors for 1930's-50's. I have as many compliments on the strap as I do the watch itself. And very reasonable; IIRC around $115-125.

How long did it take for him to make it? And do you know if he can customize lengths? The one thing I'm trying to figure out is that I have a smaller wrist (6.2"), but since the Bubbleback lug-to-lug is automatically shorter, perhaps a standard length may work--but i've no idea
Torre has already given me his store link, so I'm just trying to decide on colors

 

[Alkay3]

How long did it take for him to make it? And do you know if he can customize lengths? The one thing I'm trying to figure out is that I have a smaller wrist (6.2"), but since the Bubbleback lug-to-lug is automatically shorter, perhaps a standard length may work--but i've no idea
Torre has already given me his store link, so I'm just trying to decide on colors

He cuts and makes them to order, so you should be able to have it made the length that you want.