Rep pams price trends

[KOT1917]

Hello.

It's not the first time I've come across the opinion that reps are getting more expensive.
Of course, someone will say that this is all the same a penny, someone because of this, is no longer able to buy them at all, everything is individual here.

Personally, I believe that the specific value of a panerai rep has hardly changed over the years.
Of course, it is also worth noting the fact that pams are not the most popular watches, nor are they the most expensive to manufacture, and this balance makes them not the most expensive relative to many brands.

Of course, I consider this situation in a theoretical sense, and do not include here the circumstances of raids and diffecit, as well as the cost of sold out models of old years.

What do you, dear participants, think?

 

[KOT1917]

To create the right context, I will add some shots from the 1998 gen panerai catalog, who just turned up under the arm, where you can see the lineup from that time, and of course the prices.









jpg format images

 

[ellocity]

My humble opinion: I think the problem is related to the evolution of the reps market, in the sense that different qualities of reps have been created different price levels and reputation of the best factories, without forgetting the different sales channels ( ALI, GATE, etc ..) and particular sellers.
In closing if I found the gen at that price now I would buy it immediately ..
Thanks for your always interesting posts

PS: Disclaimer: I don't answer for my bad English :huh1:

 

[philwongnz]

Being a gen Pam collector (8 of them, 4 are SEs) who coincidently had some disposable income and didn't discovered rep forums until around 2012, the gen market at the moment is a great time to buy as back in the 2008-2014ish...the Pam market was crazy. The issue with Pam is the classic cliché that all the watches "looks the same" this issue further exacerbated when they keep releasing SEs that not only looks very similar (I can't keep track how many cali dials there are now) and the quantity of SE, one year I'm sure there were over 10.

Back to the topic, is inflation and perhaps the risks of reps in China. Also take note back in 2012 Pam reps are "ok" is not until Noob changed the game completely with some higher tier finishing (like better CGs and CG lever feel) we finally got some "decent" out of the box reps. Bear in mind a lot of people (just like other brands) franken their reps with various factories, e.g. There are no perfect 360 yet due to the dial inaccuracy and the case finishing. People actually spend a bit of money modding them. Also remember that not all older Pams have the Y incabloc (although gen Pam were ETA based) where a lot of people shell out more money to mod them.

Popularity is also another issue where the market simply turns to Rolex (gen and rep) so you don't get the classic Pam models you used to once get like the 111, 112 and the ultra rare rep 26k.

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[Hesekiel]

I had no idea that I would have been able to buy a brand new Mare Nostrum from the Panerai Boutique for $2,550 back in 1998!

That said, OP fucked up by releasing tons of new Special Editions, instead of doing what Rolex does. They diluted the waters so much, that one needs a catalog to look up all the reference numbers.

 

[EuroTime25]

Wow cant believe Panerai at one point had realistic prices. To me those should be todays prices because those models are not worth more than $2k. Time to Make Panerai Prices 1998 Again. Whos with me lol

 

[KOT1917]

In fact, I probably did not quite clearly expressed myself in the first post, but I assumed a topic of discussion, primarily related to the change in reps prices over the past years.
I put examples of prices for gen here, only because to consider prices for reps, and their change, regardless of the price of gen, is not very correct, in my opinion.

The way the price of gen pam was changed is certainly impressive, but sorry, more than 20 years have passed, and who knew about panerai in 1998?

Rather, it is just a certain absolute (in the context of this conversation) scale, by which one could try to assess how the price of new rep changes during this time.

But is the price for them adequate today, what it should correspond to: gen prices, production value, rep prices of other brands, or something else, this is already the question on which many have their own views, which I would suggest here express.

However, let the discussion go on as it goes, the main thing is that there is a reason! :lol:

 

[EuroTime25]

What you talking about 20 years passed? I still think 1998 was yesturday. When kids of today are dressing up from the 2000s its unreal.

 

[Dragonfan]

I have heard from many sources than Panerai are not popular anymore. I think someone forgot to tell RWI members because most Panerai reps listed in member to member sales….with anything even close to a reasonable price…are gone within hours (sometimes minutes).

 

[elconquistador]

We have a trifecta of high post COVID inflation combined with logistics problems from China and the crackdown in China.

Assuming the central government in China stops cracking down, rep prices will be back to $300 in a year.

 

[papabear244]

Not gonna lie, whenever I see how a Pam rep used to go for $250-$300 I wish I had started collecting sooner. And I'm not talking about the inflation and the prices 10 years ago, I am talking just over a year ago from today. I also think it has to do with how Panerai itself is becoming a very niche brand.

 

[easy_beaching]

My opinion probably shouldn't matter at all, but here is my own personal experience. I never understood the draw to Pams (crucify me if you must). Then I remember reading on one of the forums that even the CEO, or someone of high importance at Panerai, was not able to distinguish their genuine watches from the high end reps. I'm not sure if a similar situation exists with the other brands, but that really stuck with me. The only Pam I have ever really had any affinity for was the vintage California dial, but it is really hard to come by a genuine one and the reps just don't seem to fit the bill. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

 

[papabear244]

My opinion probably shouldn't matter at all, but here is my own personal experience. I never understood the draw to Pams (crucify me if you must). Then I remember reading on one of the forums that even the CEO, or someone of high importance at Panerai, was not able to distinguish their genuine watches from the high end reps. I'm not sure if a similar situation exists with the other brands, but that really stuck with me. The only Pam I have ever really had any affinity for was the vintage California dial, but it is really hard to come by a genuine one and the reps just don't seem to fit the bill. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

Blasphemy!! JK, the vintage 3646 with the Cali dial is very popular among builders, you should see some of the work done at homage forum. The cool thing about wearing these vintage builds, is the more beat up they are, the better they look.

 

[JayBee0815]

The development is really worrying. But there are certainly points apart from the hype and the raids that explain this at least to some extent. Let's assume that our reps are not made in a sweatshop in Myanmar or the Chinese province of Xinjiang. In Guangdong province, where almost all high-end reps come from, wages have risen massively in the last ten or twenty years. Whereas at the turn of the millennium they were still around 500 euros, today a trained skilled factory worker earns on average more than 1,500 euros per month. It is clear that this is reflected in the prices. Then there are the "informal" price factors, which I can only guess at best - e.g. bribe money. I don't know, but I could imagine that it is much more expensive today to grease the palms of the responsible authorities than it was ten or twenty years ago. So the fact that pre-raid prices have risen to a certain extent is, in my opinion, understandable and normal.
It is different with post-raid and M2M prices. Here you have a clear shift in supply and demand. While supply has gone down, demand has at least remained the same. It's clear what happens then. For example, if you have a certain annual budget for reps and there are hardly any new models, your budget for selected models on M2M increases. And then what happens is what has to happen - prices explode.

 

[Dragonfan]

Here you have a clear shift in supply and demand. While supply has gone down, demand has at least remained the same. It's clear what happens then. For example, if you have a certain annual budget for reps and there are hardly any new models, your budget for selected models on M2M increases. And then what happens is what has to happen - prices explode.

This is so true. It is also the reason that the Porsche 911 I wanted jumped from $38k to $52k in the last year.

 

[Fergulator72]

I have heard from many sources than Panerai are not popular anymore. I think someone forgot to tell RWI members because most Panerai reps listed in member to member sales….with anything even close to a reasonable price…are gone within hours (sometimes minutes).

They definitely seem less popular nowadays in the gen watch groups I'm in,I think the movements can have issues from what I've seen and they are quite expensive for what you get,I love my rep Pam's but not sure I would buy a gen pam new

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[philwongnz]

My opinion probably shouldn't matter at all, but here is my own personal experience. I never understood the draw to Pams (crucify me if you must). Then I remember reading on one of the forums that even the CEO, or someone of high importance at Panerai, was not able to distinguish their genuine watches from the high end reps. I'm not sure if a similar situation exists with the other brands, but that really stuck with me. The only Pam I have ever really had any affinity for was the vintage California dial, but it is really hard to come by a genuine one and the reps just don't seem to fit the bill. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

I think you are talking about a 3646 cali dial? Head over to Homage forum. Nightwatch does excellent work where if you have a deep pocket you can even source a gen Rolex calibre 618 in it or get a clone cortebert 616. Wired lugs and get a strap maker to sewn in an ammo weathered strap.

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[Hesekiel]

Nightwatch is going pretty much out of business. He will continue to provide a few staple items, but that's it. If you want a 3646 or 6152 case and related items, now is the time to stack up.

 

[johnlogan]

This is so true. It is also the reason that the Porsche 911 I wanted jumped from $38k to $52k in the last year.

Thats one insane price increase. I have the Porsche Taycan 4s Cross Turismo inbound btw.

 

[Dragonfan]

Thats one insane price increase. I have the Porsche Taycan 4s Cross Turismo inbound btw.

The Taycan is very nice. I had my eye on a 997.2 911…a 2009 or 2010…in the $40k - $45k range. I had lots of choices. Unfortunately, by the time I was ready to purchase the prices had started to go crazy. Most cars that are similar to what I was looking at previously are now $55k to $60k. I was hoping it was a bubble, but they just keep going higher.