Reasonable feedback during QC

[deepdish29]

Hello RWI

It's Monday. I'm sure everyone here is super excited and crazy stoked to get back to the daily grind.

But seriously. I'm new here, have been reading and posting. I've also been asking questions. Everyone has been very helpful (and in some cases, very funny).

I've been working with CTime on my purchase of this rep (blue DJ 41mm), which is my first ever rep purchase (my thoughts on what led me here). CTime has been very helpful, responsive, patient, and accommodating for a first time customer like myself. It's been a pleasent experience.

That said, I'm asking these questions in the New Member section because I do not know what is considered reasonable feedback during the QC process. I sincerely do not know what is acceptable etiquette/feedback during QC and I do not want to be an annoying — I want to be a reasonable customer. My questions:

1. I think one of the easiest tells between gen vs rep is how quickly the date flips on a gen Rolex. If the date flip on the rep is off during QC, is it reasonable to ask for this to be adjusted?
2. Another obvious tell is whether the dates are centered in the calendar. If one or two of the dates are off, or not centered very well, is it reasonable to ask for this to be adjusted?

The other question I have is re: the rehaut. I found a YouTube video that compared gens to high-end reps. I found the expert's* insight to be very informative and evenhanded. I think it's worth a watch to newcomers like myself.

1. There is a part where he talks about the rehaut (see timestaped video, here). In the video, it shows that the gen engravings are perfectly centered with the minute markers. In my QC pics, if the engravings are not centered with the minute markers, iis it generally considered reasonable to ask for this to be adjusted during the QC feedback? And is it something that even can be adjusted?

I know there are sections/subreddits for QC within the rep community, but I was specifically wondering about the above. Any other insight would be appreciated.

1. As an aside, what are people's thoughts on rep boxes for people who want a box? Looked on eBay for gen boxes and did not feel they were worth the price point (the ones that look legit from legit sellers were about $350-$400). There are also way too many variables, such as what boxes go with what watch and what watch size. And when the box was made vs the rep you are buying. There's also the fact that eBay sells counterfeit goods, but tries to pass them off as authentic. The rep boxes from CTime can be customized for your order, which is very nice. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this. I found this post on RWI, which I found useful, fwiw.

Any who. That's all I have. Thank you!!

*note: The YouTube expert video was a great watch. I found it interesting that he admitted he would have a hard time telling a gen vs rep unless he had something to compare to.

 

[eBoy]

General advice: Don't overthink QC and —most importantly— have realistic expectations.

Reps that cost between 1 and 10% of the gen price cannot have equal quality of gens. In fact, many of the faults in details people obsess over are easily found in gens as well, and then it gets a bit ridiculous to demand a more fault-free product for $500 than the original will be for $50,000.

 

[Karbon74]

most if not all of the items you mention are known inherent limitations of the reps, except the date centering which might be a cause for RL (at least for me)

as @eBoy says, we are buying a "cheap" copy, not a discounted original

QC is to check if it's the watch you ordered and if there is a glaring true defect, eg a big scratch on the watch head or a missing screw

personally, the only time I rejected a watch was when I was presented a 5512 instead of a 5513...and even then I almost took the thing
and once I returned a watch as I was shipped a HWF instead of a NOOB

hope this helps

 

[Feefo]

In a nutshell
1. No, it's a rep. Plus, TDs are not watchmakers, If they open a watch it would void any factory "warranty" (a concept to be taken with some leeway, it's still a Chinese-made counterfeit product)
2. See above.
Second 1. There's gens with equally misaligned rehaut. Rehaut alignment is hit and miss.
Third 1. General opinion on watch boxes: if you're not up to something shady, they just take up space. Rep boxes are usually not good quality.

 

[Winni1611]

The above. You wanna buy a overall good looking watch. If someone takes it under o lupe there will always
be tells. If you have other expections you will always be dissapointed.
All the best.,

 

[BennyF]

Hello RWI

It's Monday. I'm sure everyone here is super excited and crazy stoked to get back to the daily grind.

But seriously. I'm new here, have been reading and posting. I've also been asking questions. Everyone has been very helpful (and in some cases, very funny).

I've been working with CTime on my purchase of this rep (blue DJ 41mm), which is my first ever rep purchase (my thoughts on what led me here). CTime has been very helpful, responsive, patient, and accommodating for a first time customer like myself. It's been a pleasent experience.

That said, I'm asking these questions in the New Member section because I do not know what is considered reasonable feedback during the QC process. I sincerely do not know what is acceptable etiquette/feedback during QC and I do not want to be an annoying — I want to be a reasonable customer. My questions:

1. I think one of the easiest tells between gen vs rep is how quickly the date flips on a gen Rolex. If the date flip on the rep is off during QC, is it reasonable to ask for this to be adjusted?
2. Another obvious tell is whether the dates are centered in the calendar. If one or two of the dates are off, or not centered very well, is it reasonable to ask for this to be adjusted?

The other question I have is re: the rehaut. I found a YouTube video that compared gens to high-end reps. I found the expert's* insight to be very informative and evenhanded. I think it's worth a watch to newcomers like myself.

1. There is a part where he talks about the rehaut (see timestaped video, here). In the video, it shows that the gen engravings are perfectly centered with the minute markers. In my QC pics, if the engravings are not centered with the minute markers, iis it generally considered reasonable to ask for this to be adjusted during the QC feedback? And is it something that even can be adjusted?

I know there are sections/subreddits for QC within the rep community, but I was specifically wondering about the above. Any other insight would be appreciated.

1. As an aside, what are people's thoughts on rep boxes for people who want a box? Looked on eBay for gen boxes and did not feel they were worth the price point (the ones that look legit from legit sellers were about $350-$400). There are also way too many variables, such as what boxes go with what watch and what watch size. And when the box was made vs the rep you are buying. There's also the fact that eBay sells counterfeit goods, but tries to pass them off as authentic. The rep boxes from CTime can be customized for your order, which is very nice. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with this. I found this post on RWI, which I found useful, fwiw.

Any who. That's all I have. Thank you!!

*note: The YouTube expert video was a great watch. I found it interesting that he admitted he would have a hard time telling a gen vs rep unless he had something to compare to.

I also am relatively new and struggled with this, but i thought well hey no ones gunna really be able to tell, the rehaut being central with the minute markers honestly if it isnt SHOCKING then its fine, plenty gen rolex’s i have seen DJ/subs dont align perfectly.

Honestly whatever factory its coming from im very sure youll be happy!

 

[p0pperini]

I think one of the easiest tells between gen vs rep is how quickly the date flips on a gen Rolex.

How did you come to that conclusion? I’ve never heard anyone suggest this as being a tell before. The date flips over at midnight (and while setting the date) - no one gets to see it unless they make a particular point of doing so. But just to put your mind at rest - rep movements flip over exactly the same speed as gens (as long as the rep has a clone movement of course).

Another obvious tell is whether the dates are centered in the calendar.

Nope. Gens can have off-centre dates too.

Regarding rehaut engraving. How fussy you want to be about it is up to you. But it can’t be “adjusted”. Either you reject the rep and ask for another (which might be better or worse, but will probably be the same), or accept the absolutely minuscule, invisible-on-the-wrist flaw.

You can try and second guess every possible tiny flaw a rep may have, but my advice would be: Just go ahead and buy one, and see for yourself how good it is in the metal, on your wrist. If you’re not blown away, then sell it here M2M.

 

[Karbon74]

please note that noone is asking you to accept a bad watch.

Just to be very realistic about what you are buying, the price you are paying compared to the image you want it to project (gen)

 

[eBoy]

please note that noone is asking you to accept a bad watch.

Just to be very realistic about what you are buying, the price you are paying compared to the image you want it to project (gen)

I can understand that it is hard for a noob, especially one generally inexperienced with watches, to get the right feeling for the nuances of correct rep QCing.

It's probably a good idea for someone like that to also educate themselves about what faults the gen manufacturers consider to be "within specifications" to not make the mistake to drive a rep TD insane with unrealistic demands.

As a general thumb of rule, it can be said that rep QC serves the following 3 purposes:

* ID'ing that the TD sends you a Rolex, and not an IWC, if you ordered a Rolex

* ID'ing the correct factory (use the community's help if necessary)

* Making sure that the watch works and has no gross and obvious defects visible from afar (not on a macro shot!)

To know what is acceptable on a gen, look up "Swiss 60 cm rule". This internal industry rule describes that the everything that is wrong, not mechanically but visually, and is not visible from more than 60 cm away is within specs.

Maybe it's time the TDs establish a 70 or even 80 cm rule, because surely a rep can't meet equal or even higher standards than its gen counterpart.

 

[eBoy]

One more thing, and this will be my closing statement: I own only one Rolex rep. A Clean factory Pepsi.... I'm out in Lisbon's Baixa having dinner at Rossio, the rep is at home.

I couldn't even tell you the state of the rehaut. So far, I have never caught myself staring at it for prolonged periods. Especially not in public. I'm weird enough as it is...

 

[Karbon74]

One more thing, and this will be my closing statement: I own only one Rolex rep. A Clean factory Pepsi.... I'm out in Lisbon's Baixa having dinner at Rossio, the rep is at home.

I couldn't even tell you the state of the rehaut. So far, I have never caught myself staring at it for prolonged periods. Especially not in public. I'm weird enough as it is...

last time I stared at a rehaut, I saw your face.
Since then, I never wear that watch after midnight

 

[eBoy]

last time I stared at a rehaut, I saw your face.
Since then, I never wear that watch after midnight

I'm beautiful... On the inside!

 

[deepdish29]

Thank you for the insight, everyone. Honestly.

One more question: Is it smart to get the rep serviced (at a trusted rep service provider) once you get it? I read somewhere (I honestly don't know where) that doing so will help with the longevity of the watch? b

As an aside, I'm sure I will look back at this post and cringe in the future.

 

[Feefo]

My opinion, no. Use it till it works. When it doesn't properly anymore, have it serviced.

 

[Karbon74]

When I bought my first rep BP Exp1, I loved it so much that I thought I would put a gen ETA in it and keep it until the end of times...

6 months later, I sold it to buy the exact same model from Clean with a 3125 clone in it

This business moves so fast that you will be tempted later down the road. Keep the money until the watch has issues or you sell it

 

[Cavemax]

A few years ago, the movements sometimes came out pretty lousy, some still with metal chips out of the factory. In such a case, maintenance naturally extends the life of the movement. Today, however, the widespread consensus is that it's not worth it and you should just wear the watch until it really needs to go to the watchmaker

 

[Karbon74]

A few years ago, the movements sometimes came out pretty lousy, some still with metal chips out of the factory. In such a case, maintenance naturally extends the life of the movement. Today, however, the widespread consensus is that it's not worth it and you should just wear the watch until it really needs to go to the watchmaker

I wonder if this also applies to 4130 clones?

 

[Cavemax]

I wonder if this also applies to 4130 clones?

Let me summon someone who knows better than me I just reflected my experience and knowledge from other posts.

@derjenigewelcher what do you think about the 4130 clones and what is your experience. Would you service them as soon as they arrive or are they doing fine?

 

[OnTheSly]

Is it reasonable to ask a TD to include in the video the date being changed by time setting as well as with the quick date change function? The last QC I received the date wasn't shown being changed with either method.

One more question: Is it smart to get the rep serviced (at a trusted rep service provider) once you get it? I read somewhere (I honestly don't know where) that doing so will help with the longevity of the watch? b

As a hobbyist watchmaker I would suggest that it would be beneficial to the longevity of the watch to have it serviced after getting it. At least for watches where parts are difficult to come by. I am now servicing one of the watches I recently received, a ~ 2 year old replica Omega and it was dirty inside the movement with some parts lubricated and others totally dry. There are now two faults in the watch due to improper lubrication/dirt. One part I can easily replace, the other I cannot.

Parts that should be lubricated that are not will wear and the dirt will combine with the oil on any of the properly lubricated parts and form an abrasive paste that will also wear those parts. And if a part needs to be replaced it's possible that you (or your watchmaker) may not be able to source the part, and then you don't have a working watch. If the movement is one where parts are readily available then it isn't as big of a concern as you could wait to have it serviced when something breaks. The repair and service will be more expensive than a normal service as you also now need parts, but it is certainly an option.

 

[derjenigewelcher]

Let me summon someone who knows better than me I just reflected my experience and knowledge from other posts.

@derjenigewelcher what do you think about the 4130 clones and what is your experience. Would you service them as soon as they arrive or are they doing fine?

The SA4130/N4130 is a very high end clone. For me, as a hobby watchmaker, this movement is the highest quality clone avsilable and would not service at arrival. But also it may be that when using chrono, some spring will break inside movement.

Regarding the new SH4130 i just saw finish on photos which isnt very highlevel, but never had this movement kn hands.


I wear every watch till it stops almost, and dont service before it needs to.