Questions on the 088, 237, 029

[countit]

Hello everyone-

I've got one of these PAM GMTs in my sights. I'm just not sure which one yet as I don't have all the information/knowledge to make a decision. Also, a recent purchase of an Explorer II has made me gun shy on purchasing another watch with a GMT function. The GMT hand broke within a couple weeks of ownership.

Your help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


The 088 & the 237

I like the look of the 088 the most. My biggest question with these is the GMT function and the movement. These use a 7750 movement.

Questions:

• To get the GMT function, is this movement hacked?
• Are there known reliability issues with these?
• How is the quality of these two reps?
• Which maker is putting out the best one? Are there known flaws even with the best one?
• Is there a maker that is superluming either of these models?

The 029

This one looks like it uses a 2836 movement. I think it is the same movement in my Rolex Explorer II. The GMT hand on my Explorer no longer works making me wary about getting the 029.

Any thoughts on this watch?

THANK YOU FOR YOUR HELP!

 

[chromed.]

088.

- yes, movement is hacked.
- not to my knowledge. mine has been spot on in terms of servicability. keeps gd time, GMT functions as per Gen, tho with a little tolerance.
- love my 088. glad i held out on the 237 for the 088.
- H factory is the only one with the 088 & 237, atm. 237 being more accurate due to lack of a silver sub dial. 088's silver sub dial is a tad darker still, depending on how light hits it.. but still not as silvery as Gen. also general font thickness & size is a tad smaller/ thinner. both arent noticeable unless side by side with a Gen.
- H factory's version already comes super lumed.

029.

i do not own it, so i cant say very much.. but it seems like getting the Swiss version pays off.. but either way both versions are great! have read many great reviews & seen many mouth watering pictures of it.

overall, both are great reps.. its more of which is your poison.

hope this helped.

cheers!

 

[countit]

Chromed-

Thank you for the reply! Your post is a big help.

1. If a 7750 movement is hacked to make room for the GMT hand, how does that effect reliability and function?
2. Is this hacked 7750 a proven and stable movement?
3. How is the quality of the date window and magnification?

...Would any other 088 owners out there like to comment on their watch?

Thanks!

088.

- yes, movement is hacked.
- not to my knowledge. mine has been spot on in terms of servicability. keeps gd time, GMT functions as per Gen, tho with a little tolerance.
- love my 088. glad i held out on the 237 for the 088.
- H factory is the only one with the 088 & 237, atm. 237 being more accurate due to lack of a silver sub dial. 088's silver sub dial is a tad darker still, depending on how light hits it.. but still not as silvery as Gen. also general font thickness & size is a tad smaller/ thinner. both arent noticeable unless side by side with a Gen.
- H factory's version already comes super lumed.

 

[nycreplica]

I'm not an expert but lately I'm debating between the 088 & 029. Your post will greatly help me pull the trigger on either.

Thanks for researching and please continue

 

[countit]

I agree. It would be great to get opinions and pics from owners of either watch.

I'm not an expert but lately I'm debating between the 088 & 029. Your post will greatly help me pull the trigger on either.

Thanks for researching and please continue

 

[ALE7575]

I have bought the 029 recently.
I like more the look of the 088, but the quality of the 029 rep is awesome and completely gen-like.
I think 029 is one of the best (the best one?) rep I have never seen (and I have seen a lot of them)
If you like the look of the 029 buy it immediately you will not be disappointed.

ALE

 

[chromed.]

I have bought the 029 recently.
I like more the look of the 088, but the quality of the 029 rep is awesome and completely gen-like.
I think 029 is one of the best (the best one?) rep I have never seen (and I have seen a lot of them)
If you like the look of the 029 buy it immediately you will not be disappointed.

ALE

agreed! amongst the GMTs, 029 would be THE most gen-like.. but my choice was still the 088 as i've been waiting 2yrs for a decent rep&the current offering is simply too gd to resist for me!

 

[hrail]

Regarding your problem with the Explorer GMT hand, what are the symptoms of it's fail, if it doesn't move and can't adjust it is possible that the GMT gear has taken out of it's place. It's a relatively easy fix but you have to taken out the hands and the dial to access to it. Look at this pic from an asian 2836-2 with GMT modification:


png image hosting

The GMT main gear (3) is connected with three additional gears (1) to manage the adjustment via crown by turning it CCW. On the other side (2) it is connected to the main hour gear by another additional gear that is located bellow to move it synced in the normal function.
The GMT gear is not secured when the dial and hands are off. The hour hand that sits just above it and the dial keep it fixed in it's correct position. If any of the dial or hands are not correctly placed and have any space play, the GMT gear can jump out of it's position disengaging from the modification gears making it non functioning nor adjustable.
You'll have to take the hands and dial off, place the GMT gear in t's correct position again and assemble the dial and hands correctly without any kind of play in order to keep it fixed and secured for it's correct functioning.
All in all, the GMT modification is reliable if everything is perfectly assembled.

Hope I have expressed it correctly.

Cheers !!

 

[45acp]

From what I've heard, it seems that there are actually more reliability issues surrounding the GMT function in the 029 than the 088/237. I have a 237 and I love it, it has been completely reliable and I liked it so much that I sent it in to get serviced. My watchmaker said that the movement was in good shape, a little over lubricated but for the most part very good.

In terms of visual accuracy, I think the 029 and 237 are about even, with the 088 being a little behind because of the subdial color, though really no one will ever be able to tell on that without a gen side by side. Another thing to keep in mind about the 029 is that it comes with double sided AR, which is not accurate to the gen and is also kind of delicate. H factory still has the edge when it comes to crystal/AR quality, and the 088/237 are great examples of that.

Bottom line is, they're very different looking watches. They're all great with about the same likelihood of reliability issues, so pick the one you like the looks of the best, and keep in mind that the crystals/AR are very different between H and N maker.

 

[korneevy]

See my review of PAM 029 here : http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/disassembeled-pam-29m-91371?t=91371

In addition, some 3 weeks after the post, and as I envisaged, the stupid double AR started to develop scratches and had to be removed...with some considerable effort that was achieved and the watch looks great now with under-side AR.

No issue with the movement so far and it was confirmed to be a NOS ETA that would benefit from a service in the near future by my watchmaker. Other than that, this is a really well-built rep.

Cheers

 

[countit]

Very interesting hrail. Thank you! After reading this post, I'm sure that my Rolex GMT has the issue you described. I'm betting the gears came undone and are no longer catching or moving the GMT. ...Not sure I have the guts to try and fix it.

Is there any chance you have pics showing how the 7750 is hacked to accommodate a GMT hand?

Regarding your problem with the Explorer GMT hand, what are the symptoms of it's fail, if it doesn't move and can't adjust it is possible that the GMT gear has taken out of it's place. It's a relatively easy fix but you have to taken out the hands and the dial to access to it. Look at this pic from an asian 2836-2 with GMT modification:


png image hosting

The GMT main gear (3) is connected with three additional gears (1) to manage the adjustment via crown by turning it CCW. On the other side (2) it is connected to the main hour gear by another additional gear that is located bellow to move it synced in the normal function.
The GMT gear is not secured when the dial and hands are off. The hour hand that sits just above it and the dial keep it fixed in it's correct position. If any of the dial or hands are not correctly placed and have any space play, the GMT gear can jump out of it's position disengaging from the modification gears making it non functioning nor adjustable.
You'll have to take the hands and dial off, place the GMT gear in t's correct position again and assemble the dial and hands correctly without any kind of play in order to keep it fixed and secured for it's correct functioning.
All in all, the GMT modification is reliable if everything is perfectly assembled.

Hope I have expressed it correctly.

Cheers !!

Thanks 45! I appreciate the feedback.

1. Do you know which maker is producing the 088 and/or the 237?
2. Who made your watch?
3. Can you comment on the quality of the date window, magnification, etc?
4. How is the lume quality?

I appreciate your help!

From what I've heard, it seems that there are actually more reliability issues surrounding the GMT function in the 029 than the 088/237. I have a 237 and I love it, it has been completely reliable and I liked it so much that I sent it in to get serviced. My watchmaker said that the movement was in good shape, a little over lubricated but for the most part very good.

In terms of visual accuracy, I think the 029 and 237 are about even, with the 088 being a little behind because of the subdial color, though really no one will ever be able to tell on that without a gen side by side. Another thing to keep in mind about the 029 is that it comes with double sided AR, which is not accurate to the gen and is also kind of delicate. H factory still has the edge when it comes to crystal/AR quality, and the 088/237 are great examples of that.

Bottom line is, they're very different looking watches. They're all great with about the same likelihood of reliability issues, so pick the one you like the looks of the best, and keep in mind that the crystals/AR are very different between H and N maker.

 

[45acp]

Thanks 45! I appreciate the feedback.

1. Do you know which maker is producing the 088 and/or the 237?
2. Who made your watch?
3. Can you comment on the quality of the date window, magnification, etc?
4. How is the lume quality?

I appreciate your help!

Sure thing! I love my 237 so much that it's the only watch I've ever sent off to get serviced and waterproofed. Not because anything is wrong with it, but because it's worth the extra investment to have this watch as a keeper.

1) The 237 and 088 are identical except for the color of the seconds subdial. They are both made by the "H-maker".

2)H maker, ordered from Angus/puretime.

3)I don't have the genuine model to compare it to, but it looks great to me. I have heard talk that the magnification on the gens might be a tiny bit stronger, but it's very good on the rep and they have AR on the cyclops like the gen.

4) Lume is terrific on these watches, probably better than you would get on a N maker watch. Lume strength and crystals/AR are really the strong points of the H maker watches, though I think in general the H maker autos are much better than their manual wind models (005, 111, etc.)

And here's some pics I took today after getting it back from service!

 

[hrail]

Sorry countit, don't have any pictures of the GMT modification of an A7750.
Anyways on the 237 the adjustment is done exactly the same way as on the 029, CCW in the date adj crown position and in one hour increments (with a noticeable click).
I suspect that the GMT modification on the A7750 is similar to the one on the 2836-2 but I haven't seen it yet.

Cheers !!

 

[PolonusTM]

The GMT modification on A7750 is being based on gen 7750 GMT modification. It utilises day wheel to drive GMT hand. It is almost like 7754 in this case.

 

[tenacious_b]

My advice would be to get the 29, and then wait for the Noob Factory to come out with the 88 and 237 and get both.