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This thread is an extract from PAM Reference GUIDE of PAM 127
"Reference PAM REVIEW-GUIDE" - Replica Search, Identification, Evaluation & Selection.
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/107365-quot-Reference-PAM-REVIEW-GUIDE-quot-Replica-Search-Identification-Evaluation-amp-Selection
This thread will give you all information, data and links about the PAM 127 reps published in the main forums and the comments and evaluations made by myself after reading and study the reps, all available information and all the pics and QC pics published and received by e-mail and PM.
I have also included the main modifications proposed by marlin for the best reps.
As usually, the final evaluation that I have given, although considered after many hours of study and trying to be an average of general consensus, could have, unavoidably, some subjective component.
Anyway, with all comments and links included in this thread you can get info enough to make your own Evaluation more adapted to your taste.
Rep production is normally inconsistent, but especially for this concrete rep the problem is bigger than usually, mainly regarding the quality of the crystal distortion and finish of the movement.
Therefore, for PAM 127 the evaluation job is harder than usually and people could easily get many different opinions regarding the final conclusions. Mainly because owners opinions are based in their own reps (one or two units) and sometimes because the owners opinions are biased to their reps.
As above commented I have tried to be as impartial as possible and to get and average of the general opinions and myself one.
PAM 127 “Fiddy” – Overview and Evaluation of all reps – Nov 2015
EVALUATION:
(*) FIRST CLASS REP high level (Noob before Oct 2103)
(**) SUPER REP bordering lower status (Noob from Oct 2013)-(with low distortion crystal)
(**) SUPER REP bordering lower status (ZFac version w/ “Y” Incabloc) - (with low distortion crystal) - just a bit worse than Noob
(**) SUPER REP low level (KW-V6FacZFac version w/ “Y” Incabloc)-(with correct KW movement and low distortion crystal)
(**) SUPER REP low level (KW-V6Fac version “OOR” w/ “Y” Incabloc)-(with correct KW movement and low distortion crystal)
(*) FIRST CLASS REP good level (DSN version 2015 w/ “Y” Incabloc)- evaluation depending on the origin of the case
The gen PAM 127 1950 “Fiddy” is a homage to the vintage “6152/1”, destined to be the watch of 2002/2003. See this interesting link by Goin: https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/114033-*PCTeam*-History-amp-heritage-6152-1-amp-PAM-127-Fiddy?p=1116950#post-1116950
The Limited Edition production of 1950 pieces is scheduled to be spread over 2002 and 2003.
This watch has a very large 47 mm stainless steel case with a black Sandwich Luminova dial with the 1950 and Luminor Panerai inscriptions. Because this was the first Special Edition in the historically correct 47 mm size with a locking CG, it is probably the most popular special edition ever introduced by Panerai.
It has gold hands and a gold sub second hand that are just stunning against the black background. The crystal is a sapphire with dome shape. It has a Display caseback showing off its OPXI movement, decorated with PANERAI PANERAI engravings, which looks similar in design to the vintage Rolex pocket watch movement that these pieces housed.
Highly collectible due to its Limited Edition of 1950 pieces and its historic resemblance to the vintage watch made in "1950". Also known as the “Fiddy”, this watch has more character than any Panerai watch ever offered.
This gen watch continues to get harder and harder to get as resale prices steadily climb.
The PAM 127 is the CG on the Right version of PAM 217 (but 217 has on the dial Marina Militare instead of Luminor Panerai like the 127)
-Noob reps. before October 2013
PAM 127 reps from Noob factory before October 2103 are First Class rep high level. Bear in mind there is a lower quality old version from Noob.
Beautiful pictorial review PAM 127 on gen strap:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pam-127-w-119009?p=1167597by BMW760
There are several important flaws on Noob version which you can see below in the modifications proposed by marlin. Especially ugly is the wrong colour of golden engravings OFFICINE PANERAI FIRENZE which is actually yellow
Nice modds by marlin2284 here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/120168-*PCTeam*-My-first-modded-all-Asian-Noob-127 by marlin2284
Here you have a summary of the modifications proposed by marlin 2284 for this watch:
And the general result in comparison with a gen:
Below you can see another marlin proposal based in Swiss gen parts:
Warning: In summer 2012 there was a batch of replicas from Noob seemingly having crystal quality issues. See here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/112606-*PCTeam*-Latest-Noob-Fiddy-crystal-issues?p=1102995 by Goin
At the end of November 2012 Noob introduced a new batch of the watch with a "corrected" crystal. It seems better than the last one, but it is not yet completely OK. We have started a discussion thread about this matter here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/124736-*PCTeam*-PAM-127-Noob-Crystal-DISTORTION-issues-Already-fixed-by-Noobby ALE
Ryanwayer has published a thread with good pics of the new batch:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/124572-PANERAI-PAM127-Noob-Factory-Superlumed-Ultimate-Edition-on-Tan-Leather-Strap-358
In January 2013 marlin2284 proposed a solution by changing the Noob crystal with a WSO crystal, you can see the results and info in this thread:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/130905-*PCTeam-PAM-127-distortion-issue-possibly-solved-(modem-burner)
In February 2013 marlin detected a diameter dimension issue in WSO crystal, be careful !!:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/132688-*PCTeam*-127-WSO-crystal-possible-faults-!!IF-YOU-ARE-GETTING-ONE-PLEASE-READ!!
Anyway with a WSO crystal marlin has made one of the best Fiddy modd ever:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/133121-*PCTeam*-If-your-a-PAM-127-quot-Fiddy-quot-freak-like-me-then-CHECK-THIS-OUT
Below you can see one of the best Franken PAM 127 ever built
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=226235&p=2435575#post2435575 by ls2imprs
-Noob reps. from October 2013 with corrected crystal distortion and golden engravings on bridges
October 2013- Noob releases the waited new PAM 127 batch correcting crystal distortion and adding some improvements in movement decoration, correcting the colour of OFFICINE PANERAI FIRENZE engravings to golden.
Some last crystals Oct-2103 seem very good, but be careful accepting QCpics because there are still some bad crystals, distortion issue is not yet completely fixed. The decoration of the movement has improved the old ugly yellow colour of the engraved inscriptions, even the quality of PANERAI-PANERAI engravings seems improved, more clean and nice like gen.
A RWI member called specialforce has taken pics of the old and new movement inscriptions. These inscriptions should be golden but rep have yellow colour. “Old” inscriptions are ugly “mustard yellow” whereas “new” inscriptions have a nicer “sand yellow” or milk-tea. Anyway not completely golden but better and nice enough.
SPECIAL FORCE PICS SHOWING THE COLOUR OF OCT-2013 INSCRIPTIONS
REVIEW: You can see below the review and comparison of Noob with ZFac and KW-V6Fac versions
With above commented improvements PAM 127 reo from Noob get an evaluation of Super rep bordering lower status, but conditioned upon the quality of the crystal distortion.
Nice review and beautiful pics here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/177118-Noob-PAM-127-short-review-PICS-HEAVYby kilowattore
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=227202 by kilowattore
-SF version Nov 2014
November 2014- SF released a rep of PAM 127 E-series fitted with a movement A6497 similar to Noob.
This rep really has no pretentions, because it is full of flaws.
-Inaccurate shape of lugs and case
-Inaccurate fonts of inscriptions on dial
-Completely wrong placement of inscriptions on dial. Really displaced from the gen position.
-Thinner sandwich markers
-Inaccurate shape of CG and lever
-Bad crown
-Bad colour of engravings on movement bridges and ugly perlage
-Mineral crystal
Finish is OK but the flaws don’t allow a good evaluation
I think is not even a good rep although it is nicely made
More comments here:
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=242076&p=2578710#post2578710 by j1m1501
-“Hibrid” version (discontinued)
January 2015- It was released a weird rep sometimes called KW or V6Fac and other times from Noob. Most likely it was an “hybrid” made with remaining parts from everywhere to take care of the big demand of this watch from the Noob stop production.
The lume doesn’t seem good, ugly CP and the crystal leaves a lot to be desired. Jusat a commercial trick and non interesting release.
More comments here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/207230-new-noob-and-v6f-hybrid-127-is-out%EF%BC%81 by vader1
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/207553-Any-review-of-the-new-pam-127-by-KW-fac?p=2094470#post-2094470post2094470 by cosmicgate
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/208112-Panerai-127-New-Stock?p=2100193#post-2100193post2100193 by j1m1501
Comments from Evora:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/207230-new-noob-and-v6f-hybrid-127-is-out%EF%BC%81?p=2091778&viewfull=1#post-2091778
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/207230-new-noob-and-v6f-hybrid-127-is-out%EF%BC%81?p=2095221&viewfull=1#post-2095221
There is no possibility of a valid evaluation of this rep because the production was really small and never was assured the origin of the parts
-ZFac version w/ “Y” Incabloc
May 2015- ZFac releases a new rep PAM 127 E-series fitted with “Y” shape modified rep Incabloc and micrometric screw with correct length.
Comments and pics about ZFac
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/245123-*PCTeam*-Quick-amp-Dirty-KW-PAM-127-comments?p=2332832&viewfull=1#post-2332832 by peterpl
More info here:
http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=101363&st=0 by kiko1314
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=252514 by 481609
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=252775 by jonnyknox
REVIEW: You can see below the review and comparison of ZFac with Noob and KW-V6Fac versions
This rep gets an evaluation of Super rep bordering lower status. It is just a bit worse than Noob 2013, mainly due to a worse dial and more inconsistent finish quality, besides the ZF crystal distortion is usually worse than the last Noobs.
-KW-V6FacZFac version w/ “Y” Incabloc
June 2015- KW-V6Fac releases a new rep PAM 127 E-series fitted with “Y” shape modified rep Incabloc and micrometric screw with correct length.
More info here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/231718-KW127 by svshawn
Pole KW vs. ZFAC vs. DSN (new version)
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/264974-127-DSN-Or-another-factory by beau_bands
REVIEW:You can see below the review and comparison of KW-V6Fac with Noob and ZFac versions
In order to get this watch closer to gen the modder marlin proposes some great Modds.
Since Noob version is not already available in 2105, marlin has chosen the KW-V6fac version as the new version to be modified, considering this is the best option and more appropriate to apply his modds.
MODDS OF PAM 127 KW-V6Fac BY marlin
More info here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/262943-Looks-like-I-am-a-Panerai-owner-again?p=2450563#post-2450563 by chris9
Pole KW vs. ZFAC vs. DSN (new version)
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/264974-127-DSN-Or-another-factory by beau_bands
WARNING !!- there are some batches of KW-V6Fac PAM 127 E-series and OOR from October 2015 which are fitted with inaccurate SF Movement. Be careful with QC pics
Read more info here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/265871-BE-AWARE!-Flawed-KW-PAM-127-with-SF-movement-***-QCpics-allowed-*** by undercoverz
This rep gets an evaluation of Super rep low level. Always depending on low distortion crystal.
-KW-V6Fac version “OOR” w/ “Y” Incabloc
August 2015 -KW-V6Fac releases a new rep PAM 127 OOR (Out Of Range) fitted with “Y” shape modified rep Incabloc and micrometric screw with correct length.
These KW reps have the same features, pros and cons as KW-V6Fac PAM 127 E-series previously commented
Some info here
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/245123-*PCTeam*-Quick-amp-Dirty-KW-PAM-127-comments by PolonusTM
WARNING !!- there are some batches of KW-V6Fac PAM 127 E-series and OOR from October 2015 which are fitted with inaccurate SF Movement. Be careful with QC pics
Read more info here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/265871-BE-AWARE!-Flawed-KW-PAM-127-with-SF-movement-***-QCpics-allowed-*** by undercoverz
This rep gets the same evaluation than KW-V6Fac E-series: Super rep low level, since it is the same watch with different caseback engraving.
****COMPARISON REVIEW Noob vs. ZFac vs. KW-V6Fac ****
MOVEMENT:
Gen PAM 127 has a nice movement OP XI, ETA 6497-2 based. In this watch the movement bridges are decorated with PANERAI PANERAI engravings and brushed with a very nice sunburst effect with curved beams. OFICCINE PANEARI FIRENZE and other engravings are sharp defined and with a nice golden colour (for from yellowish like some reps).
The bridges are nicely finished with carefully polished edges and bevels of jewel holes, and uniformly flat surfaces even near the edges marking nicely the bevelled edges. The PANERAI PANERAI engravings are not very deep, but are very uniform and nicely made, with square edges and corners. The overall effect is really beautiful and gives strong personality to this movement. Forget to get this nice effect and finish on rep movements.
Rep bridges edges are not as nicely made as gen and the polishing of bevelled edges is way worse in all reps.
GOLDEN ENGRAVING ON GEN PAM 127 BRIDGES – SUNBURST BRUSHING
Rep bridges surfaces of last Noob are not as uniformly flat as gen and you can see some rounded or overpolished surfaces near the bridge edges in all reps. Modern 2015 reps ZFac, KW and SF are better in this regard having flat bridges surfaces and marked edges although worse polished than gen. Zfac and KW are finishing the PANEARI-PANERAI engravings a bit before the edge of the bridge, just like gen
More info here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/245123-*PCTeam*-Quick-amp-Dirty-KW-PAM-127-comments?p=2461899&viewfull=1#post-2461899 by marlin
In real size the appearance of rep movements is good enough (under naked eye), but with a side by side comparison the differences are more evident for a semi-trained eye.
PANERAI PANERAI engravings: these engravings are not placed randomly and are exactly placed in the same position in all gens. That doesn’t occur in all reps, mainly in balance cock, as we will se below.
Engravings, as above commented, are not extremely deep on gens but are very well uniformly made, with sharpness and square edges and corners. The overall engraving denotes great quality. Rep engravings are usually thicker than gen, not at all as sharp, sometimes uneven and with rounded edges and corners.
Noob, is sometimes very uneven and a bit “dirty”, has inaccurate R but the placement of the engravings is accurate even in balance cock.
ZFac, is the most accurate PANEARI engraving, with uniform manufacture, accurate fonts, but not as sharp as gen and with more rounded corners. Engravings placement are correct, but unfortunately is completely wrong in balance cock (really inaccurate)
KW-V6Fac, is a bit thicker and deeper than gen, almost as sharp as ZFac but seems a bit marked. Unfortunately fonts are inaccurate because are a bit narrower (mainly P and R). The placement of engravings is really good even in balance cock.
BALANCE COCK – INCABLOC – SWAN NECK COMPARISONS WITH GEN
INCABLOC and LYRE SPRING: Obviously gen has gen PAM Incabloc “Y” shaped and the Lyre Spring is also different with less curved central circles.
Noob: has neither ”Y” shaped Incabloc nor gen Lyre Spring and presents the usual rep “I” shaped Incabloc and rep Lyre spring.
ZFac and KW-V6Fac: these makers are using a rep Incabloc nicely modified. Maybe is the best rep modified Incabloc ever, but bear in mind that it is always rep. A trained eye can tell the rep even under naked eye. The Lyre Spring is the same as Noob in both reps, the usual rep spring used in all rep 6497 movements.
SWAN NECK SPRING; the three reps are using the already known Swan Neck spring Noob type with inaccurate shape and wrong screws support, even with ugly screws neither well finished nor flat. Obvious flaw for a trained eye.
MICROMETRIC SCREW: Gen screw is long enough to get the full regulation, has long head and presents two holes in the head to make easier the regulation.
Noob: has the typical short Noob screw with smaller head and without holes
ZFac and KW-V6Fac: have the same new screw with correct length, correct head size, but still without regulation holes. Also the tip of the screw is clearly pointy instead of flat (really curious flaw, and unnecessary IMO)
- llllllll + SCALE OF REGULATION: the engraving is accurate enough in all reps. Aside the colour, of which we will speak below. The placement is not accurate in all rep versions. Noob has the best placed engraving, ZFac engraving is really detached from the blue screw of balance cock and KW-V6Fac is really closer to the blue screw.
REGULATOR LEVER (DAGGER): In gen the dagger has the same thickness as the Swan Neck spring, Noob is accurate in this regards, but in ZFac and KW-V6Fac the dagger is clearly thinner than the Swan Neck spring.
PALET FORK BRIDGE- Gen has brushed surface. In all reps is not brushed.
STAMPS UNDER BALANCE WHELL: Gen has serial number ETA .Noob has no stamp
ZFac has accurate enough serial number ETA stamp. KW-V6Fac- Has wrong 6497-1 ETA instead of 6497-2
BLUE SCREWS- these screws are flat in gen. Noob has also flat and accurate screws. ZFac has also flat and accurate screws. KW-V6Fac has a bit rounded surface screws.
SUNBURST EFFECT: Gen has clear sunburst effect made with curved beams. Rep sunburst effects are a bit hit and mis, with many variations, but usually they are as follows:
Noob has less sunburst effect than gen and the beams are straight. ZFac has maybe the stronger effect, many times stronger than gen, but the beams are also straight. and with curved beams. KW effect usually tends to be less pronounced than gen, but the beams are curved like gen ones. If you like strong effect and don’t mind the curved shape, ZFac is the best for you. If you like the curved effect and don’t mind a less pronounced effect KW-V6Fac is your choice, with a bit of luck you could get a unit with sunburst effect as pronounced as gen.
See more info here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/245123-*PCTeam*-Quick-amp-Dirty-KW-PAM-127-comments?p=2462299&viewfull=1#post-2462299 by marlin
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/262943-Looks-like-I-am-a-Panerai-owner-again?p=2456491&viewfull=1#post-2456491 by marlin
OFFICINE PANERAI FIRENZE and other golden engravings: Nice gold colour in gen, not yellowish. Noob is accurate font shape but a bit thick and less crisp fonts, colour is good but more yellowish. ZFac has accurate enough fonts, colour is just a bit yellowish. KW-V6Fac has narrower and taller fonts, but yery good and accurate golden colour.
RATCHET AND CROWN WHEELS: As usually the bevelled is wider on all reps and not polished like gen. The wheels sunburst effect is better in Noob and KW, very gen-like. ZFac has more evident and rough sunburst brushing.
RATCHET AND CROWN WHEELS SCREWS: Rep screws are far from gen. Gen screws have flat upper surface and the edges of contour are sharp. The notch is nicely made uniform and with clean bottom part. Noob, ZFac and KW screws have usually a bit rounded upper surface, rounded contour edges and really ugly and sloppy notch with especially rough bottom part.
GEAR TRAIN: is brushed in gen. All reps have non brushed and glossy gears.
More info about Asian Panerai Calibre OP XI movements
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/268437-Special-Asian-Panerai-Calibre-OP-XI-movements by undercoverz
MID-CASE AND BEZEL- In relation to the gen the reps are as follows:
All reps case shapes have differences with gen in the back where the insertion of the lugs is different from gen, but few noticeable without side by side comparison.
Noob- Cushion shape a bit more squared than gen but the most accurate together with ZFac. Lugs are a bit longer and fatter with more pronounced upper curve. Bezel is OK
ZFac- Cushion shape a bit more squared than gen but the most accurate together to Noob. Lugs are quite correct with accurate length and correct shape. Bezel has the base a bit taller.
KW-V6Fac- Cushion shape a littler more squared than gen even more thanm Noob or ZFac. Lugs have correct length, are a bit thinner but with correct shape. Bezel is OK
CROWN GUARD- In relation to the gen rep CGs are as follows:
Noob- Nice overall finish of edges and corners, nice corners chamfered. The inner space for the crown is a bit taller. REG. T.M. engravings are accurate enough. Lever is accurate, but the tip is more square shaped overall mainly in the inner edge.
ZFac- A bit worse than noob, correct overall finish of edges and corners, correct corners chamfered. The inner space for the crown is a bit taller. REG. T.M. engravings are accurate enough but with some differences on placement. Lever is accurate, but the tip is more square shaped and thinner.
KW-V6Fac- Nice overall finish of edges and corners, nice corners chamfered, similar to Noob or even better. The inner space for the crown is a bit taller. REG. T.M. engravings are accurate enough. Lever is accurate, but the tip is more square shaped overall mainly in the inner edge, like Noob.
DIAL: In relation to the gen rep dials are as follows:
Noob- Accurate layout. Dial surface and colour OK. Sandwich markers an cutouts are accurate and nicely made. LUMINOR PANERAI inscription with accurate fonts (correct thickness), placement and colour, maybe a bit glossy. 1950 inscription with correct placement with a bit more rounded fonts (few noticeable).
ZFac- Accurate layout. Dial surface and colour OK. Sandwich markers an cutouts are accurate and nicely made but they are not as good as Noob. LUMINOR PANERAI inscription with accurate fonts with some little differences (they tend to be thicker), good placement and colour. 1950 inscription with correct placement with a bit smaller fonts (few noticeable).
KW-V6Fac - Accurate layout. Dial surface and colour OK. Sandwich markers an cutouts are accurate and nicely made. LUMINOR PANERAI inscription with accurate fonts (they tend to be thinner), good placement and colour. 1950 inscription with correct placement and fonts. The better dial together with Noob or even better.
HANDS and CP: In relation to the gen rep hands and CP are as follows:
Noob- Hour hand with correct length and narrower lume. Minute hand with correct length and wider lume. CP is a bit smaller (few noticeable), a bit recessed, pointy and with worse polishing.
ZFac- Hour hand with correct length and narrower and shorter lume. Minute hand with correct length and correct lume width. CP has correct size, a bit recessed, flat and with worse polishing, but good enough in practice.
KW-V6Fac- Hour hand with correct length and almost correct lume (last batches, because there was some batches with narrower lume). Minute hand with correct length and almost correct lume width (some pics showed a less pointy minute hand but maybe was a crystal distortion or first batches). CP is a bit bigger (few noticeable), flush, flat and with good polishing. Maybe the best CP.
CASEBACK-
Noob- Good finish. Accurate fonts. A little less sharp and deep than KW, but good enough, almost at the same level as KW
ZFac- Good finish. Accurate fonts. Sharp and deep engravings. The most accurate and nice of the reps
KW-V6Fac- Good finish. Accurate fonts. Sharp and deep engravings. The most accurate and nice of the reps
OVERALL FINISH AND GEN-LIKE APPEARANCE:
In this regard the best rep is KW-V6Fac followed by the noob and then ZFac and the last one would be SF.
As usually KW-V6Fac has an impressive finsh and gen-like appearance. In this way you can forget some little flaws on cushion shape of the case. As always you cannot see the little flaws from 50cm but you can notice the gen-like appearance.
Read about the gen like appearance of KW PAM 217 – (valid for PAM 127 KW) :
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/236309-*PCTeam*-KW-V6F-PAM-217-review?p=2371154&viewfull=1#post-2371154 by Ashu2289
CRYSTAL: The dome shaped crystal produces always a more or less pronounced distortion in the transition zone of the two radius of the curved domed surface.
This is always a controversial matter, because the production of sapphire domed crystal is not at all easy and even the gen presents in some batches ugly distortions.
Of course the rep crystals are always hit and miss and you can get more or less nice distortions and usually ugly and pronounced distortion. There are also many variations between batches and we cannot get a fixed rule.
Noob was a lot of problems on crystals in summer 2102, corrected after several months. But always the distortions were really inconsistent and the Noob crystals had a lot of differences.
It is the same in current versions and always is a matter of luck to get a crystal with nice or just acceptable distortion. People have to be extremely careful checking QC pics.
Zfac crystal is flatter and less domed than gen, Noob and KW, sometimes with correct distortion but usually worse than KW version
After see many pics, wristshots and QC pics I can say that the best current crystals I have seen are from KW-V6Fac version. A good percentage of last KW-V6Fac PAM 127 are f¡tted with crystals of nice or more than acceptable distortion.
After KW the best crystal seems to be Noob and them we have ZFac and SF.
More info about all reps here:
Comparison ZFac & KW-V6Fac with gen by Ice Gee:
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=252514&p=2684362&viewfull=1#post2684362 by Ice Gee
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/216686-ZF-PAM127/page9?p=2308639&viewfull=1#post-2308639 by Ice Gee
Review PAM 127 KW:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/245123-*PCTeam*-Quick-amp-Dirty-KW-PAM-127-comments by PolonusTM
Some interesting comments about KW and Noob:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/245123-*PCTeam*-Quick-amp-Dirty-KW-PAM-127-comments?p=2459719&viewfull=1#post-2459719 by marlin
Comparisons ZFac & KW-V6Fac
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/244482-ZF-vs-V6-KW-127-who-has-held-both-which-is-better?p=2325333#post-2325333by Strodda
Many comments about ZFac and KW-V6Fac versions:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/216686-ZF-PAM127 by takoxavy
Comparison KW – Noob:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/245123-*PCTeam*-Quick-amp-Dirty-KW-PAM-127-comments?p=2331247&viewfull=1#post-2331247 by kilowattore
Comparisons Noob- KW –ZFac :
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/216686-ZF-PAM127/page13?p=2386404&viewfull=1#post-2386404 by kilowattore
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/216686-ZF-PAM127/page13?p=2386965&viewfull=1#post-2386965 by ALE
-SF version 2015 w/ “Y” Incabloc
August 2015- SF releases a new rep PAM 127 E-series, improving previous SF version from Nov 2014. This new version has some improvements like the sapphire crystal instead of mineral and movement fitted with “Y” shape modified rep Incabloc and micrometric screw with correct length. But it has still some flaws and serious inaccuracies to get a good evaluation similar to the other makers versions.
Below you can see a review of this SF version:
MOVEMENT:
PANERAI PANERAI engravings: SF engravings are a bit thicker and deeper than gen. Unfortunately fonts are inaccurate because are a bit narrower (mainly P and R). The placement of engravings is really bad because is wrong in all bridges. Very noticeable flaw especially in balance cock. See the last above figure of comparisons.
INCABLOC and LYRE SPRING: SF is the same as KW and ZFac, rep Incabloc nicely modified. Maybe is the best rep modified Incabloc ever, but bear in mind that it is always rep. A trained eye can tell the rep even under naked eye. The Lyre Spring is the same as Noob in both reps, the usual rep spring used in all rep 6497 movements.
SWAN NECK SPRING: SF is using the same as Noob, KW and ZFac. It is already known Swan Neck spring Noob type with inaccurate shape and wrong screws support, even with ugly screws, neither well finished nor flat. Obvious flaw for a trained eye.
MICROMETRIC SCREW: Gen screw is long enough to get the full regulation, has long head and presents two holes in the head to make easier the regulation.
SF, ZFac and KW-V6Fac: have the same new screw with correct length, correct head size, but still without regulation holes. Also the tip of the screw is clearly pointy instead of flat (really curious flaw, and unnecessary IMO)
- llllllll + SCALE OF REGULATION: the engraving is accurate enough in all reps. Aside the colour, of which we will speak below. SF placement is not accurate, engraving is really detached from the blue screw of balance cock like ZFac.
REGULATOR LEVER (DAGGER): In gen the dagger has the same thickness as the Swan Neck spring, but in SF reps the dagger is clearly thinner than the Swan Neck spring like in ZFac and KW-V6Fac.
PALET FORK BRIDGE- Gen has brushed surface. In all reps is not brushed.
STAMPS UNDER BALANCE WHELL: Gen has serial number ETA. SF has accurate enough serial number ETA stamp.
BLUE SCREWS- these screws are flat in gen. SF has flat and accurate screws. Maybe better than previous versions.
SUNBURST EFFECT: Gen has clear sunburst effect made with curved beams. Rep sunburst effects are a bit hit and mis, with many variations. SF I very similar to KW, the effect usually tends to be less pronounced than gen, but the beams are curved like gen ones.
OFFICINE PANERAI and other golden engravings: Nice gold colour in gen, not yellowish. SF has accurate fonts and yery good and accurate golden colour.
RATCHET AND CROWN WHEELS: As usually the bevelled is wider on SF and not polished like gen. The wheels sunburst effect is nice like in Noob and KW, very gen-like.
RATCHET AND CROWN WHEELS SCREWS: SF movement has the nicest and more accurate screws, the upper surfaces are flat and the edges of the contour are sharp. The notch is nicer than other versions but not as nice as gen.
GEAR TRAIN: is brushed in gen. SF reps have non brushed and glossy gears like the other versions.
MID-CASE AND BEZEL: In relation to the gen SF reps are as follows:
SF- Cushion shape clearly more squared than gen even with marker angle at the top, the less accurate of the current versions. Lugs have correct length, but are thinner. Bezel is taller. Of course the worse mid-case
CROWN GUARD- In relation to the gen SF reps are as follows:
Sloppy overall finish of edges and corners, very inconsistent corners chamfered and sometimes inexistent. The inner space for the crown has correct size. REG. T.M. engravings are inaccurate on fonts and position. Lever shape is inaccurate and the tip is completely squared, thinner and detached from the case.
DIAL: No necessary review because the dial inscriptions are completely inaccurate with clearly different fonts and wrong placement. Very noticeable and serious flaw which downgrades more the evaluation of this rep.
HANDS and CP: In relation to the gen SF hands and CP are as follows:
Hour hand with correct length and narrower and shorter lume. Minute hand with correct length and wider lume. CP is bigger, almost flat and with good finish, good enough in practice.
CASEBACK- Good finish but a bit more sloppy than other versions. Less accurate fonts in relation with other versions. Less sharp and deep engravings. The worst caseback of the reps.
OVERALL FINISH AND GEN-LIKE APPEARANCE: SF is the worst finished rep in comparison with noob, ZFac and KW.
CRYSTAL: As above commented, dome shaped crystal produces always a more or less pronounced distortion in the transition zone of the two radius of the curved domed surface. This is always a controversial matter, because the production of sapphire domed crystal is not at all easy and even the gen presents in some batches ugly distortions.
Of course the rep crystals are always hit and miss and you can get more or less nice distortions and usually ugly and pronounced distortion. There are also many variations between batches and we cannot get a fixed rule.
KW has the best average of good crystals, after seems to be Noob and them we have ZFac and SF.
There are many flaws in this rep to get a high evaluation, the inaccurate fonts on dial inscriptions is serious, IMO just a Good rep improving previous SF version, but far from the competitors.
-DSN version 2015 w/ “Y” Incabloc
August 2105- DSN releases a new rep PAM 127 E-series with “Y” Incabloc on movement.
DSN movement is Low beat and has SF type bridges with inaccurate fonts and wrong placement of PANERAI PANERAI engravings. Completely inaccurate balance cock engravings and regulation –lllllllll+ scale. Although movement has SF appearance DSN has rounded blue screws and wheels screws instead of flat like SF has
Swan Neck spring is the most accurate of all versions I have seen
Dial inscriptions are very glossy and maybe a bit white or grey
Pole KW vs. ZFAC vs. DSN (new version):
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/264974-127-DSN-Or-another-factory by beau_bands
More info here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/255994-What-do-you-guys-think-of-the-DSN-127E-he-uses-the-Noob-case by fire007
This rep gets an evaluation of First Class rep good level.
A perfect candidate for a first Panerai replica (Super rep versions)
PAM 127 Fiddy
REPLICA links:
-Noob from Oct 2013
(**)http://www.puretime.watch/product/pam127-e-n-maker-11-superlumed-ultimate-edition-on-soft-tan-leather-strap/ no available
(**)http://www.puretime.watch/product/pam127-e-n-maker-11-superlumed-ultimate-edition-on-brown-genuine-croco-leather-strap/ no available
(**)http://www.ts-station.co/11747-xfpa0500-pam127-1950-black-dial-ss-le-47mm-superlume-asian-6497.html no available
(**)http://www.asian7750.com/product_show.asp?p_id=2330 no available
(**)http://www.torobravo2015.com/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=127&product_id=178 no available
(**)http://www.ttw8488.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_46&products_id=9157 no available
(**)http://www.pf-818.com/0pn127e01-1950-ssle-6497-p-11874.html no available
-ZFac version w/ “Y” Incabloc
(**)http://puretime.watch/product/pam127-e-zf-11-best-edition-on-thick-brown-leather-strap-a6497-with-y-incabloc/
(**)http://puretime.watch/product/pam127-e-zf-11-best-edition-on-brown-leather-strap-a6497-with-y-incabloc/
(**)http://www.ts-station.co/16939-pa16939-pam127-e-zf-black-dial-ss-lt-1-1-a6497-y-incabloc.html
(**)http://www.torobravo2015.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1637
(**)http://www.intime.co/panerai/2145-pam-127-e-zf-1-1-best-edition-on-no74-leather-strap-a6497-with-y-incabloc.html
(**)http://www.ttw8488.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=352&products_id=13517
-KW-V6FacZFac version w/ “Y” Incabloc
(**)http://www.kuvarsitwatch.com/panerai/1-1-panerai-special-edition-pam-127-fiddy-1950-domed-sapphire.-best-version.from-kw/
(**)http://puretime.watch/product/pam127-e-v6f-11-best-edition-on-brown-leather-strap-a6497-with-y-incabloc/
(**)http://www.ts-station.co/17164-pa17164-pam127-e-v6f-black-dial-ss-lt-1-1-a6497-y-incabloc.html
(**)http://www.7750asian.com/product_show.asp?p_id=3514
(**)http://www.intime.co/panerai/2146-pam127-e-v6f-1-1-best-edition-on-brown-leather-strap-a6497-with-y-incabloc.html
(**)http://www.ttw8488.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=352&products_id=13648
(**)http://www.pf-818.com/pn127e08-ssle-p-17837.html
-KW-V6Fac version “OOR” w/ “Y” Incabloc
(**)http://www.ttw8488.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=352&products_id=13794
(**)http://www.pf-818.com/pn127e11-ssle-p-18076.html
-SF version 2015 w/ “Y” Incabloc
http://puretime.watch/product/pam127-e-sf-11-best-edition-on-brown-leather-strap-a6497-with-y-incabloc/
-DSN version 2015 w/ “Y” Incabloc
(*)https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/255764-Pam-127E
GEN links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRpqasq8WpU&feature=youtu.be
http://www.paneraisource.com/watch_details/Special_111.html
http://www.paneristi.com/reference/vendome/specials02.html
http://www.panerai.com/en/special-editions-collection/2002/182-luminor-1950-pam00127
(Updated Nov 2015)
Thanks for reading and waiting for your comments
ALE
"Reference PAM REVIEW-GUIDE" - Replica Search, Identification, Evaluation & Selection.
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/107365-quot-Reference-PAM-REVIEW-GUIDE-quot-Replica-Search-Identification-Evaluation-amp-Selection
This thread will give you all information, data and links about the PAM 127 reps published in the main forums and the comments and evaluations made by myself after reading and study the reps, all available information and all the pics and QC pics published and received by e-mail and PM.
I have also included the main modifications proposed by marlin for the best reps.
As usually, the final evaluation that I have given, although considered after many hours of study and trying to be an average of general consensus, could have, unavoidably, some subjective component.
Anyway, with all comments and links included in this thread you can get info enough to make your own Evaluation more adapted to your taste.
Rep production is normally inconsistent, but especially for this concrete rep the problem is bigger than usually, mainly regarding the quality of the crystal distortion and finish of the movement.
Therefore, for PAM 127 the evaluation job is harder than usually and people could easily get many different opinions regarding the final conclusions. Mainly because owners opinions are based in their own reps (one or two units) and sometimes because the owners opinions are biased to their reps.
As above commented I have tried to be as impartial as possible and to get and average of the general opinions and myself one.
PAM 127 “Fiddy” – Overview and Evaluation of all reps – Nov 2015
EVALUATION:
(*) FIRST CLASS REP high level (Noob before Oct 2103)
(**) SUPER REP bordering lower status (Noob from Oct 2013)-(with low distortion crystal)
(**) SUPER REP bordering lower status (ZFac version w/ “Y” Incabloc) - (with low distortion crystal) - just a bit worse than Noob
(**) SUPER REP low level (KW-V6FacZFac version w/ “Y” Incabloc)-(with correct KW movement and low distortion crystal)
(**) SUPER REP low level (KW-V6Fac version “OOR” w/ “Y” Incabloc)-(with correct KW movement and low distortion crystal)
(*) FIRST CLASS REP good level (DSN version 2015 w/ “Y” Incabloc)- evaluation depending on the origin of the case
The gen PAM 127 1950 “Fiddy” is a homage to the vintage “6152/1”, destined to be the watch of 2002/2003. See this interesting link by Goin: https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/114033-*PCTeam*-History-amp-heritage-6152-1-amp-PAM-127-Fiddy?p=1116950#post-1116950
The Limited Edition production of 1950 pieces is scheduled to be spread over 2002 and 2003.
This watch has a very large 47 mm stainless steel case with a black Sandwich Luminova dial with the 1950 and Luminor Panerai inscriptions. Because this was the first Special Edition in the historically correct 47 mm size with a locking CG, it is probably the most popular special edition ever introduced by Panerai.
It has gold hands and a gold sub second hand that are just stunning against the black background. The crystal is a sapphire with dome shape. It has a Display caseback showing off its OPXI movement, decorated with PANERAI PANERAI engravings, which looks similar in design to the vintage Rolex pocket watch movement that these pieces housed.
Highly collectible due to its Limited Edition of 1950 pieces and its historic resemblance to the vintage watch made in "1950". Also known as the “Fiddy”, this watch has more character than any Panerai watch ever offered.
This gen watch continues to get harder and harder to get as resale prices steadily climb.
The PAM 127 is the CG on the Right version of PAM 217 (but 217 has on the dial Marina Militare instead of Luminor Panerai like the 127)
-Noob reps. before October 2013
PAM 127 reps from Noob factory before October 2103 are First Class rep high level. Bear in mind there is a lower quality old version from Noob.
Beautiful pictorial review PAM 127 on gen strap:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/pam-127-w-119009?p=1167597by BMW760
There are several important flaws on Noob version which you can see below in the modifications proposed by marlin. Especially ugly is the wrong colour of golden engravings OFFICINE PANERAI FIRENZE which is actually yellow
Nice modds by marlin2284 here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/120168-*PCTeam*-My-first-modded-all-Asian-Noob-127 by marlin2284
Here you have a summary of the modifications proposed by marlin 2284 for this watch:
And the general result in comparison with a gen:
Below you can see another marlin proposal based in Swiss gen parts:
Warning: In summer 2012 there was a batch of replicas from Noob seemingly having crystal quality issues. See here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/112606-*PCTeam*-Latest-Noob-Fiddy-crystal-issues?p=1102995 by Goin
At the end of November 2012 Noob introduced a new batch of the watch with a "corrected" crystal. It seems better than the last one, but it is not yet completely OK. We have started a discussion thread about this matter here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/124736-*PCTeam*-PAM-127-Noob-Crystal-DISTORTION-issues-Already-fixed-by-Noobby ALE
Ryanwayer has published a thread with good pics of the new batch:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/124572-PANERAI-PAM127-Noob-Factory-Superlumed-Ultimate-Edition-on-Tan-Leather-Strap-358
In January 2013 marlin2284 proposed a solution by changing the Noob crystal with a WSO crystal, you can see the results and info in this thread:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/130905-*PCTeam-PAM-127-distortion-issue-possibly-solved-(modem-burner)
In February 2013 marlin detected a diameter dimension issue in WSO crystal, be careful !!:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/132688-*PCTeam*-127-WSO-crystal-possible-faults-!!IF-YOU-ARE-GETTING-ONE-PLEASE-READ!!
Anyway with a WSO crystal marlin has made one of the best Fiddy modd ever:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/133121-*PCTeam*-If-your-a-PAM-127-quot-Fiddy-quot-freak-like-me-then-CHECK-THIS-OUT
Below you can see one of the best Franken PAM 127 ever built
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=226235&p=2435575#post2435575 by ls2imprs
-Noob reps. from October 2013 with corrected crystal distortion and golden engravings on bridges
October 2013- Noob releases the waited new PAM 127 batch correcting crystal distortion and adding some improvements in movement decoration, correcting the colour of OFFICINE PANERAI FIRENZE engravings to golden.
Some last crystals Oct-2103 seem very good, but be careful accepting QCpics because there are still some bad crystals, distortion issue is not yet completely fixed. The decoration of the movement has improved the old ugly yellow colour of the engraved inscriptions, even the quality of PANERAI-PANERAI engravings seems improved, more clean and nice like gen.
A RWI member called specialforce has taken pics of the old and new movement inscriptions. These inscriptions should be golden but rep have yellow colour. “Old” inscriptions are ugly “mustard yellow” whereas “new” inscriptions have a nicer “sand yellow” or milk-tea. Anyway not completely golden but better and nice enough.
SPECIAL FORCE PICS SHOWING THE COLOUR OF OCT-2013 INSCRIPTIONS
REVIEW: You can see below the review and comparison of Noob with ZFac and KW-V6Fac versions
With above commented improvements PAM 127 reo from Noob get an evaluation of Super rep bordering lower status, but conditioned upon the quality of the crystal distortion.
Nice review and beautiful pics here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/177118-Noob-PAM-127-short-review-PICS-HEAVYby kilowattore
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=227202 by kilowattore
-SF version Nov 2014
November 2014- SF released a rep of PAM 127 E-series fitted with a movement A6497 similar to Noob.
This rep really has no pretentions, because it is full of flaws.
-Inaccurate shape of lugs and case
-Inaccurate fonts of inscriptions on dial
-Completely wrong placement of inscriptions on dial. Really displaced from the gen position.
-Thinner sandwich markers
-Inaccurate shape of CG and lever
-Bad crown
-Bad colour of engravings on movement bridges and ugly perlage
-Mineral crystal
Finish is OK but the flaws don’t allow a good evaluation
I think is not even a good rep although it is nicely made
More comments here:
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=242076&p=2578710#post2578710 by j1m1501
-“Hibrid” version (discontinued)
January 2015- It was released a weird rep sometimes called KW or V6Fac and other times from Noob. Most likely it was an “hybrid” made with remaining parts from everywhere to take care of the big demand of this watch from the Noob stop production.
The lume doesn’t seem good, ugly CP and the crystal leaves a lot to be desired. Jusat a commercial trick and non interesting release.
More comments here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/207230-new-noob-and-v6f-hybrid-127-is-out%EF%BC%81 by vader1
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/207553-Any-review-of-the-new-pam-127-by-KW-fac?p=2094470#post-2094470post2094470 by cosmicgate
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/208112-Panerai-127-New-Stock?p=2100193#post-2100193post2100193 by j1m1501
Comments from Evora:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/207230-new-noob-and-v6f-hybrid-127-is-out%EF%BC%81?p=2091778&viewfull=1#post-2091778
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/207230-new-noob-and-v6f-hybrid-127-is-out%EF%BC%81?p=2095221&viewfull=1#post-2095221
There is no possibility of a valid evaluation of this rep because the production was really small and never was assured the origin of the parts
-ZFac version w/ “Y” Incabloc
May 2015- ZFac releases a new rep PAM 127 E-series fitted with “Y” shape modified rep Incabloc and micrometric screw with correct length.
Comments and pics about ZFac
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/245123-*PCTeam*-Quick-amp-Dirty-KW-PAM-127-comments?p=2332832&viewfull=1#post-2332832 by peterpl
More info here:
http://www.rwg.bz/board/index.php?showtopic=101363&st=0 by kiko1314
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=252514 by 481609
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=252775 by jonnyknox
REVIEW: You can see below the review and comparison of ZFac with Noob and KW-V6Fac versions
This rep gets an evaluation of Super rep bordering lower status. It is just a bit worse than Noob 2013, mainly due to a worse dial and more inconsistent finish quality, besides the ZF crystal distortion is usually worse than the last Noobs.
-KW-V6FacZFac version w/ “Y” Incabloc
June 2015- KW-V6Fac releases a new rep PAM 127 E-series fitted with “Y” shape modified rep Incabloc and micrometric screw with correct length.
More info here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/231718-KW127 by svshawn
Pole KW vs. ZFAC vs. DSN (new version)
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/264974-127-DSN-Or-another-factory by beau_bands
REVIEW:You can see below the review and comparison of KW-V6Fac with Noob and ZFac versions
In order to get this watch closer to gen the modder marlin proposes some great Modds.
Since Noob version is not already available in 2105, marlin has chosen the KW-V6fac version as the new version to be modified, considering this is the best option and more appropriate to apply his modds.
MODDS OF PAM 127 KW-V6Fac BY marlin
More info here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/262943-Looks-like-I-am-a-Panerai-owner-again?p=2450563#post-2450563 by chris9
Pole KW vs. ZFAC vs. DSN (new version)
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/264974-127-DSN-Or-another-factory by beau_bands
WARNING !!- there are some batches of KW-V6Fac PAM 127 E-series and OOR from October 2015 which are fitted with inaccurate SF Movement. Be careful with QC pics
Read more info here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/265871-BE-AWARE!-Flawed-KW-PAM-127-with-SF-movement-***-QCpics-allowed-*** by undercoverz
This rep gets an evaluation of Super rep low level. Always depending on low distortion crystal.
-KW-V6Fac version “OOR” w/ “Y” Incabloc
August 2015 -KW-V6Fac releases a new rep PAM 127 OOR (Out Of Range) fitted with “Y” shape modified rep Incabloc and micrometric screw with correct length.
These KW reps have the same features, pros and cons as KW-V6Fac PAM 127 E-series previously commented
Some info here
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/245123-*PCTeam*-Quick-amp-Dirty-KW-PAM-127-comments by PolonusTM
WARNING !!- there are some batches of KW-V6Fac PAM 127 E-series and OOR from October 2015 which are fitted with inaccurate SF Movement. Be careful with QC pics
Read more info here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/265871-BE-AWARE!-Flawed-KW-PAM-127-with-SF-movement-***-QCpics-allowed-*** by undercoverz
This rep gets the same evaluation than KW-V6Fac E-series: Super rep low level, since it is the same watch with different caseback engraving.
****COMPARISON REVIEW Noob vs. ZFac vs. KW-V6Fac ****
MOVEMENT:
Gen PAM 127 has a nice movement OP XI, ETA 6497-2 based. In this watch the movement bridges are decorated with PANERAI PANERAI engravings and brushed with a very nice sunburst effect with curved beams. OFICCINE PANEARI FIRENZE and other engravings are sharp defined and with a nice golden colour (for from yellowish like some reps).
The bridges are nicely finished with carefully polished edges and bevels of jewel holes, and uniformly flat surfaces even near the edges marking nicely the bevelled edges. The PANERAI PANERAI engravings are not very deep, but are very uniform and nicely made, with square edges and corners. The overall effect is really beautiful and gives strong personality to this movement. Forget to get this nice effect and finish on rep movements.
Rep bridges edges are not as nicely made as gen and the polishing of bevelled edges is way worse in all reps.
GOLDEN ENGRAVING ON GEN PAM 127 BRIDGES – SUNBURST BRUSHING
Rep bridges surfaces of last Noob are not as uniformly flat as gen and you can see some rounded or overpolished surfaces near the bridge edges in all reps. Modern 2015 reps ZFac, KW and SF are better in this regard having flat bridges surfaces and marked edges although worse polished than gen. Zfac and KW are finishing the PANEARI-PANERAI engravings a bit before the edge of the bridge, just like gen
More info here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/245123-*PCTeam*-Quick-amp-Dirty-KW-PAM-127-comments?p=2461899&viewfull=1#post-2461899 by marlin
In real size the appearance of rep movements is good enough (under naked eye), but with a side by side comparison the differences are more evident for a semi-trained eye.
PANERAI PANERAI engravings: these engravings are not placed randomly and are exactly placed in the same position in all gens. That doesn’t occur in all reps, mainly in balance cock, as we will se below.
Engravings, as above commented, are not extremely deep on gens but are very well uniformly made, with sharpness and square edges and corners. The overall engraving denotes great quality. Rep engravings are usually thicker than gen, not at all as sharp, sometimes uneven and with rounded edges and corners.
Noob, is sometimes very uneven and a bit “dirty”, has inaccurate R but the placement of the engravings is accurate even in balance cock.
ZFac, is the most accurate PANEARI engraving, with uniform manufacture, accurate fonts, but not as sharp as gen and with more rounded corners. Engravings placement are correct, but unfortunately is completely wrong in balance cock (really inaccurate)
KW-V6Fac, is a bit thicker and deeper than gen, almost as sharp as ZFac but seems a bit marked. Unfortunately fonts are inaccurate because are a bit narrower (mainly P and R). The placement of engravings is really good even in balance cock.
BALANCE COCK – INCABLOC – SWAN NECK COMPARISONS WITH GEN
INCABLOC and LYRE SPRING: Obviously gen has gen PAM Incabloc “Y” shaped and the Lyre Spring is also different with less curved central circles.
Noob: has neither ”Y” shaped Incabloc nor gen Lyre Spring and presents the usual rep “I” shaped Incabloc and rep Lyre spring.
ZFac and KW-V6Fac: these makers are using a rep Incabloc nicely modified. Maybe is the best rep modified Incabloc ever, but bear in mind that it is always rep. A trained eye can tell the rep even under naked eye. The Lyre Spring is the same as Noob in both reps, the usual rep spring used in all rep 6497 movements.
SWAN NECK SPRING; the three reps are using the already known Swan Neck spring Noob type with inaccurate shape and wrong screws support, even with ugly screws neither well finished nor flat. Obvious flaw for a trained eye.
MICROMETRIC SCREW: Gen screw is long enough to get the full regulation, has long head and presents two holes in the head to make easier the regulation.
Noob: has the typical short Noob screw with smaller head and without holes
ZFac and KW-V6Fac: have the same new screw with correct length, correct head size, but still without regulation holes. Also the tip of the screw is clearly pointy instead of flat (really curious flaw, and unnecessary IMO)
- llllllll + SCALE OF REGULATION: the engraving is accurate enough in all reps. Aside the colour, of which we will speak below. The placement is not accurate in all rep versions. Noob has the best placed engraving, ZFac engraving is really detached from the blue screw of balance cock and KW-V6Fac is really closer to the blue screw.
REGULATOR LEVER (DAGGER): In gen the dagger has the same thickness as the Swan Neck spring, Noob is accurate in this regards, but in ZFac and KW-V6Fac the dagger is clearly thinner than the Swan Neck spring.
PALET FORK BRIDGE- Gen has brushed surface. In all reps is not brushed.
STAMPS UNDER BALANCE WHELL: Gen has serial number ETA .Noob has no stamp
ZFac has accurate enough serial number ETA stamp. KW-V6Fac- Has wrong 6497-1 ETA instead of 6497-2
BLUE SCREWS- these screws are flat in gen. Noob has also flat and accurate screws. ZFac has also flat and accurate screws. KW-V6Fac has a bit rounded surface screws.
SUNBURST EFFECT: Gen has clear sunburst effect made with curved beams. Rep sunburst effects are a bit hit and mis, with many variations, but usually they are as follows:
Noob has less sunburst effect than gen and the beams are straight. ZFac has maybe the stronger effect, many times stronger than gen, but the beams are also straight. and with curved beams. KW effect usually tends to be less pronounced than gen, but the beams are curved like gen ones. If you like strong effect and don’t mind the curved shape, ZFac is the best for you. If you like the curved effect and don’t mind a less pronounced effect KW-V6Fac is your choice, with a bit of luck you could get a unit with sunburst effect as pronounced as gen.
See more info here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/245123-*PCTeam*-Quick-amp-Dirty-KW-PAM-127-comments?p=2462299&viewfull=1#post-2462299 by marlin
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/262943-Looks-like-I-am-a-Panerai-owner-again?p=2456491&viewfull=1#post-2456491 by marlin
OFFICINE PANERAI FIRENZE and other golden engravings: Nice gold colour in gen, not yellowish. Noob is accurate font shape but a bit thick and less crisp fonts, colour is good but more yellowish. ZFac has accurate enough fonts, colour is just a bit yellowish. KW-V6Fac has narrower and taller fonts, but yery good and accurate golden colour.
RATCHET AND CROWN WHEELS: As usually the bevelled is wider on all reps and not polished like gen. The wheels sunburst effect is better in Noob and KW, very gen-like. ZFac has more evident and rough sunburst brushing.
RATCHET AND CROWN WHEELS SCREWS: Rep screws are far from gen. Gen screws have flat upper surface and the edges of contour are sharp. The notch is nicely made uniform and with clean bottom part. Noob, ZFac and KW screws have usually a bit rounded upper surface, rounded contour edges and really ugly and sloppy notch with especially rough bottom part.
GEAR TRAIN: is brushed in gen. All reps have non brushed and glossy gears.
More info about Asian Panerai Calibre OP XI movements
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/268437-Special-Asian-Panerai-Calibre-OP-XI-movements by undercoverz
MID-CASE AND BEZEL- In relation to the gen the reps are as follows:
All reps case shapes have differences with gen in the back where the insertion of the lugs is different from gen, but few noticeable without side by side comparison.
Noob- Cushion shape a bit more squared than gen but the most accurate together with ZFac. Lugs are a bit longer and fatter with more pronounced upper curve. Bezel is OK
ZFac- Cushion shape a bit more squared than gen but the most accurate together to Noob. Lugs are quite correct with accurate length and correct shape. Bezel has the base a bit taller.
KW-V6Fac- Cushion shape a littler more squared than gen even more thanm Noob or ZFac. Lugs have correct length, are a bit thinner but with correct shape. Bezel is OK
CROWN GUARD- In relation to the gen rep CGs are as follows:
Noob- Nice overall finish of edges and corners, nice corners chamfered. The inner space for the crown is a bit taller. REG. T.M. engravings are accurate enough. Lever is accurate, but the tip is more square shaped overall mainly in the inner edge.
ZFac- A bit worse than noob, correct overall finish of edges and corners, correct corners chamfered. The inner space for the crown is a bit taller. REG. T.M. engravings are accurate enough but with some differences on placement. Lever is accurate, but the tip is more square shaped and thinner.
KW-V6Fac- Nice overall finish of edges and corners, nice corners chamfered, similar to Noob or even better. The inner space for the crown is a bit taller. REG. T.M. engravings are accurate enough. Lever is accurate, but the tip is more square shaped overall mainly in the inner edge, like Noob.
DIAL: In relation to the gen rep dials are as follows:
Noob- Accurate layout. Dial surface and colour OK. Sandwich markers an cutouts are accurate and nicely made. LUMINOR PANERAI inscription with accurate fonts (correct thickness), placement and colour, maybe a bit glossy. 1950 inscription with correct placement with a bit more rounded fonts (few noticeable).
ZFac- Accurate layout. Dial surface and colour OK. Sandwich markers an cutouts are accurate and nicely made but they are not as good as Noob. LUMINOR PANERAI inscription with accurate fonts with some little differences (they tend to be thicker), good placement and colour. 1950 inscription with correct placement with a bit smaller fonts (few noticeable).
KW-V6Fac - Accurate layout. Dial surface and colour OK. Sandwich markers an cutouts are accurate and nicely made. LUMINOR PANERAI inscription with accurate fonts (they tend to be thinner), good placement and colour. 1950 inscription with correct placement and fonts. The better dial together with Noob or even better.
HANDS and CP: In relation to the gen rep hands and CP are as follows:
Noob- Hour hand with correct length and narrower lume. Minute hand with correct length and wider lume. CP is a bit smaller (few noticeable), a bit recessed, pointy and with worse polishing.
ZFac- Hour hand with correct length and narrower and shorter lume. Minute hand with correct length and correct lume width. CP has correct size, a bit recessed, flat and with worse polishing, but good enough in practice.
KW-V6Fac- Hour hand with correct length and almost correct lume (last batches, because there was some batches with narrower lume). Minute hand with correct length and almost correct lume width (some pics showed a less pointy minute hand but maybe was a crystal distortion or first batches). CP is a bit bigger (few noticeable), flush, flat and with good polishing. Maybe the best CP.
CASEBACK-
Noob- Good finish. Accurate fonts. A little less sharp and deep than KW, but good enough, almost at the same level as KW
ZFac- Good finish. Accurate fonts. Sharp and deep engravings. The most accurate and nice of the reps
KW-V6Fac- Good finish. Accurate fonts. Sharp and deep engravings. The most accurate and nice of the reps
OVERALL FINISH AND GEN-LIKE APPEARANCE:
In this regard the best rep is KW-V6Fac followed by the noob and then ZFac and the last one would be SF.
As usually KW-V6Fac has an impressive finsh and gen-like appearance. In this way you can forget some little flaws on cushion shape of the case. As always you cannot see the little flaws from 50cm but you can notice the gen-like appearance.
Read about the gen like appearance of KW PAM 217 – (valid for PAM 127 KW) :
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/236309-*PCTeam*-KW-V6F-PAM-217-review?p=2371154&viewfull=1#post-2371154 by Ashu2289
CRYSTAL: The dome shaped crystal produces always a more or less pronounced distortion in the transition zone of the two radius of the curved domed surface.
This is always a controversial matter, because the production of sapphire domed crystal is not at all easy and even the gen presents in some batches ugly distortions.
Of course the rep crystals are always hit and miss and you can get more or less nice distortions and usually ugly and pronounced distortion. There are also many variations between batches and we cannot get a fixed rule.
Noob was a lot of problems on crystals in summer 2102, corrected after several months. But always the distortions were really inconsistent and the Noob crystals had a lot of differences.
It is the same in current versions and always is a matter of luck to get a crystal with nice or just acceptable distortion. People have to be extremely careful checking QC pics.
Zfac crystal is flatter and less domed than gen, Noob and KW, sometimes with correct distortion but usually worse than KW version
After see many pics, wristshots and QC pics I can say that the best current crystals I have seen are from KW-V6Fac version. A good percentage of last KW-V6Fac PAM 127 are f¡tted with crystals of nice or more than acceptable distortion.
After KW the best crystal seems to be Noob and them we have ZFac and SF.
More info about all reps here:
Comparison ZFac & KW-V6Fac with gen by Ice Gee:
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=252514&p=2684362&viewfull=1#post2684362 by Ice Gee
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/216686-ZF-PAM127/page9?p=2308639&viewfull=1#post-2308639 by Ice Gee
Review PAM 127 KW:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/245123-*PCTeam*-Quick-amp-Dirty-KW-PAM-127-comments by PolonusTM
Some interesting comments about KW and Noob:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/245123-*PCTeam*-Quick-amp-Dirty-KW-PAM-127-comments?p=2459719&viewfull=1#post-2459719 by marlin
Comparisons ZFac & KW-V6Fac
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/244482-ZF-vs-V6-KW-127-who-has-held-both-which-is-better?p=2325333#post-2325333by Strodda
Many comments about ZFac and KW-V6Fac versions:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/216686-ZF-PAM127 by takoxavy
Comparison KW – Noob:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/245123-*PCTeam*-Quick-amp-Dirty-KW-PAM-127-comments?p=2331247&viewfull=1#post-2331247 by kilowattore
Comparisons Noob- KW –ZFac :
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/216686-ZF-PAM127/page13?p=2386404&viewfull=1#post-2386404 by kilowattore
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/216686-ZF-PAM127/page13?p=2386965&viewfull=1#post-2386965 by ALE
-SF version 2015 w/ “Y” Incabloc
August 2015- SF releases a new rep PAM 127 E-series, improving previous SF version from Nov 2014. This new version has some improvements like the sapphire crystal instead of mineral and movement fitted with “Y” shape modified rep Incabloc and micrometric screw with correct length. But it has still some flaws and serious inaccuracies to get a good evaluation similar to the other makers versions.
Below you can see a review of this SF version:
MOVEMENT:
PANERAI PANERAI engravings: SF engravings are a bit thicker and deeper than gen. Unfortunately fonts are inaccurate because are a bit narrower (mainly P and R). The placement of engravings is really bad because is wrong in all bridges. Very noticeable flaw especially in balance cock. See the last above figure of comparisons.
INCABLOC and LYRE SPRING: SF is the same as KW and ZFac, rep Incabloc nicely modified. Maybe is the best rep modified Incabloc ever, but bear in mind that it is always rep. A trained eye can tell the rep even under naked eye. The Lyre Spring is the same as Noob in both reps, the usual rep spring used in all rep 6497 movements.
SWAN NECK SPRING: SF is using the same as Noob, KW and ZFac. It is already known Swan Neck spring Noob type with inaccurate shape and wrong screws support, even with ugly screws, neither well finished nor flat. Obvious flaw for a trained eye.
MICROMETRIC SCREW: Gen screw is long enough to get the full regulation, has long head and presents two holes in the head to make easier the regulation.
SF, ZFac and KW-V6Fac: have the same new screw with correct length, correct head size, but still without regulation holes. Also the tip of the screw is clearly pointy instead of flat (really curious flaw, and unnecessary IMO)
- llllllll + SCALE OF REGULATION: the engraving is accurate enough in all reps. Aside the colour, of which we will speak below. SF placement is not accurate, engraving is really detached from the blue screw of balance cock like ZFac.
REGULATOR LEVER (DAGGER): In gen the dagger has the same thickness as the Swan Neck spring, but in SF reps the dagger is clearly thinner than the Swan Neck spring like in ZFac and KW-V6Fac.
PALET FORK BRIDGE- Gen has brushed surface. In all reps is not brushed.
STAMPS UNDER BALANCE WHELL: Gen has serial number ETA. SF has accurate enough serial number ETA stamp.
BLUE SCREWS- these screws are flat in gen. SF has flat and accurate screws. Maybe better than previous versions.
SUNBURST EFFECT: Gen has clear sunburst effect made with curved beams. Rep sunburst effects are a bit hit and mis, with many variations. SF I very similar to KW, the effect usually tends to be less pronounced than gen, but the beams are curved like gen ones.
OFFICINE PANERAI and other golden engravings: Nice gold colour in gen, not yellowish. SF has accurate fonts and yery good and accurate golden colour.
RATCHET AND CROWN WHEELS: As usually the bevelled is wider on SF and not polished like gen. The wheels sunburst effect is nice like in Noob and KW, very gen-like.
RATCHET AND CROWN WHEELS SCREWS: SF movement has the nicest and more accurate screws, the upper surfaces are flat and the edges of the contour are sharp. The notch is nicer than other versions but not as nice as gen.
GEAR TRAIN: is brushed in gen. SF reps have non brushed and glossy gears like the other versions.
MID-CASE AND BEZEL: In relation to the gen SF reps are as follows:
SF- Cushion shape clearly more squared than gen even with marker angle at the top, the less accurate of the current versions. Lugs have correct length, but are thinner. Bezel is taller. Of course the worse mid-case
CROWN GUARD- In relation to the gen SF reps are as follows:
Sloppy overall finish of edges and corners, very inconsistent corners chamfered and sometimes inexistent. The inner space for the crown has correct size. REG. T.M. engravings are inaccurate on fonts and position. Lever shape is inaccurate and the tip is completely squared, thinner and detached from the case.
DIAL: No necessary review because the dial inscriptions are completely inaccurate with clearly different fonts and wrong placement. Very noticeable and serious flaw which downgrades more the evaluation of this rep.
HANDS and CP: In relation to the gen SF hands and CP are as follows:
Hour hand with correct length and narrower and shorter lume. Minute hand with correct length and wider lume. CP is bigger, almost flat and with good finish, good enough in practice.
CASEBACK- Good finish but a bit more sloppy than other versions. Less accurate fonts in relation with other versions. Less sharp and deep engravings. The worst caseback of the reps.
OVERALL FINISH AND GEN-LIKE APPEARANCE: SF is the worst finished rep in comparison with noob, ZFac and KW.
CRYSTAL: As above commented, dome shaped crystal produces always a more or less pronounced distortion in the transition zone of the two radius of the curved domed surface. This is always a controversial matter, because the production of sapphire domed crystal is not at all easy and even the gen presents in some batches ugly distortions.
Of course the rep crystals are always hit and miss and you can get more or less nice distortions and usually ugly and pronounced distortion. There are also many variations between batches and we cannot get a fixed rule.
KW has the best average of good crystals, after seems to be Noob and them we have ZFac and SF.
There are many flaws in this rep to get a high evaluation, the inaccurate fonts on dial inscriptions is serious, IMO just a Good rep improving previous SF version, but far from the competitors.
-DSN version 2015 w/ “Y” Incabloc
August 2105- DSN releases a new rep PAM 127 E-series with “Y” Incabloc on movement.
DSN movement is Low beat and has SF type bridges with inaccurate fonts and wrong placement of PANERAI PANERAI engravings. Completely inaccurate balance cock engravings and regulation –lllllllll+ scale. Although movement has SF appearance DSN has rounded blue screws and wheels screws instead of flat like SF has
Swan Neck spring is the most accurate of all versions I have seen
Dial inscriptions are very glossy and maybe a bit white or grey
Pole KW vs. ZFAC vs. DSN (new version):
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/264974-127-DSN-Or-another-factory by beau_bands
More info here:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/255994-What-do-you-guys-think-of-the-DSN-127E-he-uses-the-Noob-case by fire007
This rep gets an evaluation of First Class rep good level.
A perfect candidate for a first Panerai replica (Super rep versions)
PAM 127 Fiddy
REPLICA links:
-Noob from Oct 2013
(**)http://www.puretime.watch/product/pam127-e-n-maker-11-superlumed-ultimate-edition-on-soft-tan-leather-strap/ no available
(**)http://www.puretime.watch/product/pam127-e-n-maker-11-superlumed-ultimate-edition-on-brown-genuine-croco-leather-strap/ no available
(**)http://www.ts-station.co/11747-xfpa0500-pam127-1950-black-dial-ss-le-47mm-superlume-asian-6497.html no available
(**)http://www.asian7750.com/product_show.asp?p_id=2330 no available
(**)http://www.torobravo2015.com/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=127&product_id=178 no available
(**)http://www.ttw8488.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_46&products_id=9157 no available
(**)http://www.pf-818.com/0pn127e01-1950-ssle-6497-p-11874.html no available
-ZFac version w/ “Y” Incabloc
(**)http://puretime.watch/product/pam127-e-zf-11-best-edition-on-thick-brown-leather-strap-a6497-with-y-incabloc/
(**)http://puretime.watch/product/pam127-e-zf-11-best-edition-on-brown-leather-strap-a6497-with-y-incabloc/
(**)http://www.ts-station.co/16939-pa16939-pam127-e-zf-black-dial-ss-lt-1-1-a6497-y-incabloc.html
(**)http://www.torobravo2015.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1637
(**)http://www.intime.co/panerai/2145-pam-127-e-zf-1-1-best-edition-on-no74-leather-strap-a6497-with-y-incabloc.html
(**)http://www.ttw8488.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=352&products_id=13517
-KW-V6FacZFac version w/ “Y” Incabloc
(**)http://www.kuvarsitwatch.com/panerai/1-1-panerai-special-edition-pam-127-fiddy-1950-domed-sapphire.-best-version.from-kw/
(**)http://puretime.watch/product/pam127-e-v6f-11-best-edition-on-brown-leather-strap-a6497-with-y-incabloc/
(**)http://www.ts-station.co/17164-pa17164-pam127-e-v6f-black-dial-ss-lt-1-1-a6497-y-incabloc.html
(**)http://www.7750asian.com/product_show.asp?p_id=3514
(**)http://www.intime.co/panerai/2146-pam127-e-v6f-1-1-best-edition-on-brown-leather-strap-a6497-with-y-incabloc.html
(**)http://www.ttw8488.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=352&products_id=13648
(**)http://www.pf-818.com/pn127e08-ssle-p-17837.html
-KW-V6Fac version “OOR” w/ “Y” Incabloc
(**)http://www.ttw8488.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=352&products_id=13794
(**)http://www.pf-818.com/pn127e11-ssle-p-18076.html
-SF version 2015 w/ “Y” Incabloc
http://puretime.watch/product/pam127-e-sf-11-best-edition-on-brown-leather-strap-a6497-with-y-incabloc/
-DSN version 2015 w/ “Y” Incabloc
(*)https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php/255764-Pam-127E
GEN links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRpqasq8WpU&feature=youtu.be
http://www.paneraisource.com/watch_details/Special_111.html
http://www.paneristi.com/reference/vendome/specials02.html
http://www.panerai.com/en/special-editions-collection/2002/182-luminor-1950-pam00127
(Updated Nov 2015)
Thanks for reading and waiting for your comments
ALE
