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{*PCTeam*} First Surprise for 2014 - PAM 438 Tuttonero!!!

mysterio

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Well, the 1st day is barely over and we have our first new PAM. It's really not that new since bits and pieces have been showing up in various reps (359 dial, DLCed P9001 movement, DLCed cases) but it has all come together in probably one of the more eagerly awaited reps...the PAM 438, Tuttonero.


The watch

PAM2013123101-01_enl.JPG

Close up of the dial:
PAM2013123101-02_enl.JPG

Lume shot
PAM2013123101-03_enl.JPG

Close up of the CG:
PAM2013123101-04_enl.JPG

Side view
PAM2013123101-06_enl.JPG



PAM2013123101-07_enl.JPG

Bracelet. If you're going to ask why the deployant ears are SS on the rep, it's because the gen is the same way (major complaint from the general public).
PAM2013123101-08_enl.JPG



PAM2013123101-09_enl.JPG

Photo of the DLC plated movement (at least the visible portions) behind the smoked crystal.
PAM2013123101-10_enl.JPG

Removing the caseback reveals the movement beneath it.
PAM2013123101-11_enl.JPG



PAM2013123101-12_enl.JPG



PAM2013123101-13_enl.JPG

Caseback with the Tuttonero inscription
PAM2013123101-14_enl.JPG



PAM2013123101-15_enl.JPG



PAM2013123101-16_enl.JPG



PAM2013123101-17_enl.JPG



PAM2013123101-18_enl.JPG



Someone will eventually get one and post actual pictures. Some observations right off the bat:
1. The movement is obviously not a P9001 clone so it still has the flaws of its non-DLCed counterpart. As such, the location of the subdial on the rep is flawed the same as that on the PAM359, It's very small but it will be there.
2. The lettering on the movement seems too white. The one on the gen seems to be greyish probably silver or platinum paint.
3. The lever tip shape is wrong. That's probably because it's a DLCed version of an existing rep lever. There is a definite angle on the outer side and the tip is more pointed.
4. Crown looks too thin. On the rep it looks to be around 40% of the space inside the CG. On the gen it is 50%. Plus the cutout needs a little but more angle like a "D".
5. Dial fonts look to be fine, compared to the OP site, it looks pale, but on actual watch photos on the net, they are the same.
6. Weight is going to be off as it's DLCed SS compared to ceramic of the gen. Why it did not use Titanium is to probably keep costs down (but at the cost of inaccuracy in weight, anyway, you're not going to "see" the weight difference).
7. Jury is still out on the DLC bracelet as there is no actual sample yet. Hopefully it is as great as it looks (PAM299 bracelet quality).
8. Most importantly, price is not yet announced. This will be a factor in deciding its success (or level of).


All in all, it's a very good effort on the part of the Z-Factory which seems to be pumping out its reps like there's no tomorrow. I have contacted my dealer for pricing and delivery ETA. It's been on my wishlist. A better one might come along eventually but this will tide me over just nicely.
biggrin.png
 

jamztio

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Excited for the "new watch" reason but not too psyched for the watch itself :abnormal: Anyway, if the DLC color is correct, this rep might look nice in my eyes. For now, it's pitch black in those pics. :ambivalence:
 

ALE7575

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Thanks mysterio for the input and little review

I was for me a surprise at the end of last year, because I saw yesterday the watch in TSWatch catalogue... LOL...

I agree with you regarding your observations and keep waiting for reviews and opinions from owners
Lume colour I hope is just the pic colour, because we all know it is vintage creamy

I would add:
- Wrong fonts shape in movement inscriptions
- Decoration jewels are black painted (?) in rep
- TUTTONERO on caseback has wrong fonts (see horrible "R")
- Rep GMT hand turns once every 24 hrs. Gen GMT hand turns once every 12 hrs. (it is the same as 320, 441, 329... there are no rep movements with GMT 12 hrs.)

Issue in movement inscriptions:

Rep: Twenty-Eight 28 jewels
Gen: Twenty-Nine 29 jewels


ALE

One time again a hurried release, due to commercial pressure, with some silly flaws as usually nowadays
Anyway, good attempt for a waited watch

ALE
 

rukus187

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2/9/12
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This is exactly what I was waiting for, I definitely need to order this even with the flaws
 

mysterio

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Because of ALE's hint, I found better pics of the rep as they are under natural lighting. Wrist shot too. :)

Pics in hand and I mean, in hand. LOL
pa14964-pam438-o-luminor-gmt-ceramic-full-dlc-coating-zf-1-1-best-p9001.jpg


pa14964-pam438-o-luminor-gmt-ceramic-full-dlc-coating-zf-1-1-best-p9001.jpg

A bit of lighting difference here
pa14964-pam438-o-luminor-gmt-ceramic-full-dlc-coating-zf-1-1-best-p9001.jpg

The all important wristies:
pa14964-pam438-o-luminor-gmt-ceramic-full-dlc-coating-zf-1-1-best-p9001.jpg

Obviously not sized for this wrist (somebody take note of the serial LOL)
pa14964-pam438-o-luminor-gmt-ceramic-full-dlc-coating-zf-1-1-best-p9001.jpg


Movement pic
pa14964-pam438-o-luminor-gmt-ceramic-full-dlc-coating-zf-1-1-best-p9001.jpg


Deployant (brushed SS as per gen)
pa14964-pam438-o-luminor-gmt-ceramic-full-dlc-coating-zf-1-1-best-p9001.jpg
 

jamztio

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Price is up on PT. It's $518.. Man, it's getting higher and higher nowadays.
 

sharrkey

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Price is up on PT. It's $518.. Man, it's getting higher and higher nowadays.

$458 on Marks web site and I'm sure if most hang off and not buy from Angus you will be able to pick up $400 from other dealers, Angus price is a Joke!!!
 

mysterio

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It's because the back crystal is not smoked :)

And you can say that because...? From the photos, there is a noticeable difference in the appearance of the movement with the caseback off and on. And if you check puretime's description of the crystal

Tinted case back crystal color as per genuine.
 

braith7

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Nice! :D

As you say, could probably wait for v2 but that is pretty good for a first take!

$518! guess its time to start hoarding cash...

Also a question - I assume the 441 is also Z Factory? Does this mean they will be re-releasing with a colored movement now? Def hole out for that if you're looking at a 441
 

mysterio

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Nice! :D

As you say, could probably wait for v2 but that is pretty good for a first take!

$518! guess its time to start hoarding cash...

Also a question - I assume the 441 is also Z Factory? Does this mean they will be re-releasing with a colored movement now? Def hole out for that if you're looking at a 441

No such info has been presented to prove it is ZFac or otherwise. I am not expecting to re-release the PAM 441 with a DLCed movement as the gen's movement is not DLCed. ;) If you really like the look, there are dealers such as Torobravo who can sell you the PAM441 with darkened movement.
 

ALE7575

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And you can say that because...? From the photos, there is a noticeable difference in the appearance of the movement with the caseback off and on. And if you check puretime's description of the crystal

I agree with mysterio
Caseback crystal is darkened
ALE
 

ALE7575

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Another issue in movement inscriptions:

Rep: Twenty-Eight 28 jewels
Gen: Twenty-Nine 29 jewels

ALE
 

ALE7575

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Another issue (usual in GMT reps)

- Rep GMT hand turns once every 24 hrs. Gen GMT hand turns once every 12 hrs. (it is the same as 320, 441, 329... there are no rep movements with GMT 12 hrs.)

ALE
 

Drkitch109

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I love this watch but The price is rough. I've noticed that The 127 from PT also jumped up to about $400 from the usual $368.

New year, new prices I suppose.
 

ALE7575

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Summary of info about ZFac PAM 438 Tuttonero (5 january 2014)

Following the pics and posts published about this watch, I would like to make a little summary of all info available about this ZFac PAM 438 TUTTONERO just released.

Summary of info about ZFac Pam 438 Tuttonero (5 January 2014)

The PAM 438 TUTTONERO released by ZFac seems a good attempt to get a First Class replica.

It is really well built and the finish is nice, colour and surface finish seem accurate to get a ceramic-like appearance. Sandblasted or beadblasted treatment is applied, instead of brushing, before DLC coating to get the ceramic texture appearance.

This replica is fitted with a decorated A7750 based movement, which features a false Power Reserve indicator

Overall is an accurate replica and you would need to know a little the gen and the black P.9001/B movement to tell the replica without a thorough observation.
Unfortunately, due to the info currently available, many people are able to know every detail for any watch in some minutes. Therefore the work of replica makers is more and more hard.

Regarding gen and rep comparisons we need to clarify several points:
-Polemic inscription CERAMICA is correct. Because some catalogues and prototypes show CERAMIC but watches in the market have CERAMICA.
-Deployant clasp is SS natural silver colour like gen.
-Gen AR is single-side and not strong like in PAM 359 and similar
See this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZHu1omDP8c

In this ZFac PAM 438 we can see, by the pics and info available, some clear flaws of different types.
1-Flaws impossible to be corrected without using a real clone movement (impossible at this moment)
2-Flaws impossible to be corrected without using the correct ceramic material (not impossible but difficult and with other problems at this moment)
3-Flaws more or less easy to be corrected and that could have been avoided with a more careful project, design or manufacture. Anyway perfectly correctable flaws at this moment.

These last flaws, it is a pity that makers, maybe for sloppiness or pressed by the commercial competition, cannot avoid them. In this way, we get in the market very good replicas, after many time, efforts and money spent, but with several “silly†flaws which ruin a well made work

1-Flaws impossible to be corrected without using a real clone movement (impossible at this moment)
-Since it is a decorated like P.9001 movement based on A7750, it features false Power Reserve indicator, it has some unavoidable inaccuracies and, obviously, inverted layout like other decorated A7750 based movements. Besides, due to A7750 subdial @9 position, the seconds subdial is a little displaced, few noticeable.
-GMT function with one turn every 24 hrs of GMT hand, instead of 12hrs. like gen. There is no solution for this issue with a rep movement.

2-Flaws impossible to be corrected without using the correct ceramic material (not impossible but difficult and with other problems at this moment)
-Since the rep is made of SS DLC and the gen is real ceramic, the rep weight is much higher. This difference could be decreased using Titanium instead of SS, but anyway the weight would be also lighter.

3-Flaws more or less easy to be corrected and that could have been avoided with a more careful project, design or manufacture. Anyway perfectly correctable flaws at this moment.
-Inaccurate fonts and placements of inscription on movement decoration bridges
-Inaccurate colour of movement inscriptions, it is too white instead of greyish or silver like gen ones.
-Inaccurate text about number of jewels. Gen is 29 twenty-nine and rep says 28 twenty-eight
-Decoration jewels seem black painted in rep
-Inaccurate fonts on caseback engravings. Mainly TUTTONERO is wrong and bad defined. See mainly the ugly “Râ€
-Wrong shape of lever tip. It is clearly narrower and more rounded in outer side. Gen has a shape with increasing width from the base to the tip, rep shape is more uniform from base to tip. Lever end in contact with the crown has also wrong narrower shape.
-Crown seems a little narrower.
-The CG hollow to shelter the crown need more angled shape like a “Dâ€
-Dial markers seems fine but a bit white. Gen has vintage creamy colour. Maybe is a problem of the pic. We will see in person.

Due to that we could classify, pending more detailed and valid reviews, and depending of lume colour accuracy and quality, as a First Class replica of low-medium level.

ALE