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PAV strap history

hooligan

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Alright, so I was nosing around viapaneristi.com for some information on the PAV straps. I came across this fantastic post by Mr. Dirk Grandry, so I will shamelessly copy and paste it here. :oops: I thought this was fantastic information, not only about the straps, but about the state of affairs Panerai was in before they were bought by Cartier/Richemont/Vendome.

I hope you find this as interesting as I did. I hope I don't offend Mr. Grandry by posting this on a replica watch site...

"The PAV straps that were recently sold through the boutiques were old stock that Cartier acquired when they bought the Officine Panerai brand in early 1997. Must have been some 2-300 straps, that's my best guess.
Most of these were produced in 1995, but some date from 1993 or 1994.
What you must know is that they were not produced with a particular reference in mind. In order to be able to sell the old stock and meet some customer expectations, Cartier/Richemont had to take a look at what they had, then group straps with 'similar' specs into reference groups. The word 'similar' is important, as we witnessed straps with somewhat different specifications being listed with the same reference (size differences, VERO CUOIO and KODIAK leathers using the same PAV reference, etc). Some 10% of that old stock couldn't be listed in those 'PAV Groups', those are the 'special' that some Paneristi were able to get when they called the Boutique in Firenze.

The history of the PV straps is as follows:
First batch fitted to 5218-201/A and 5218-202/A were some 300 straps that were sourced from another supplier. Simple construction (1 piece of leather folded in two, lacking the stitching // to 24mm) with some plastic varnish in an attempt to make the strap waterproof. The Marina Miliare wasn't happy with these straps fitted to their 5218-202/As. Panerai stopped working with that strapmaker, and asked the grandson of the man that made the straps for them in the 1930s, 1940s, 1950s to come up with a solution (the old leather straps in the early days were sufficiently waterproof to be worn by divers).
While he was working on the development of a fully seawaterproof strap for the MM (the Original Kodiak strap, fully approved by the MM in early 1994), he already started making straps in VERO CUOIO and VERO SQUALO leathers for the 5218-201/A and 5218-301/A.
Once the Original Kodiak leather was approved, they changed the straps of the 5218-202/As that the MM had acquired. The straps for the 5218-203/A (fall 1994) remained mostly the VERO CUOIO calf leather, although some came already with a second strap in Kodiak leather.
No new watches were ever produced after fall 1994 (except for those re-engineered twelve 5218-209 Luminors and two 5218-210 Marinas in late 1996), as all the SlyTechs were just modified 5218-201/As and 5218-301/As.
A second fixed loop was a Stallone idea and only introduced from 1995 onwards. He also saw the benefits of the Kodiak straps, hence the development of that small white 'for underwater use' sticker. The black SWP Calf with beige stitching (PAV 98) was also a Stallone idea.
Panerai was in a deep financial cricis in 1995 and didn't even have the funds to finance a re-run of the buckles. The black coating on the 1995 straps isn't even PVD, but a cheaper galvanic process called 'doriatura' (the buckles that came with the 5218-202/A and 5218-203/A were PVD). When all 24mm buckles were gone, they started using 22mm Mare Nostrum buckles for the Luminor models (see PAV 98 and the Marine Blue Nile Croc strap for the 5218-207/A Daylight). The Mare Nostrum wasn't a commercial success at all (you could buy it directly from Panerai in 1995 for less than 750 Euros), hence the 398+18+19 unsold 5218-3 watches that were handed over to Cartier in 1997."
 

babola

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So the 'grandson' was Mario P....right ?

cheers,
babola
 

sharpie12070

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Hooligan, thanks, that's very informative. Now if you only Azgjav can tell all of us how he compare TC's PAV and PAM's will be all settled :D
 

JOEJOEJOE

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Wow Great information hooligan!

I wish I could go back in time and grab some of these haha

I really like the PAV98 (I believe), but there is no way, I will pay the current market price for it!!
 

hooligan

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JOEJOEJOE said:
Wow Great information hooligan!

I wish I could go back in time and grab some of these haha

I really like the PAV98 (I believe), but there is no way, I will pay the current market price for it!!

Yeah, I'd like to go back to '95 and get a Mare Nostrum for 750 Euros, too! :shock:
 

tootall

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Thanks for that info hooligan.

May I ask all who replied and those who are looking; What, other than having a collectible piece, draws you to the PAV strap??
 

hooligan

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tootall said:
Thanks for that info hooligan.

May I ask all who replied and those who are looking; What, other than having a collectible piece, draws you to the PAV strap??

My guess is nothing.

Did you see that NOS PAV strap with PVD buckle for sale on 'Risti? Almost $1400 for a strap?!?!?!?!?! I'll pass, thanks. I could get an Oris TT1 Ti chrono for that much!
 

babola

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tootall said:
Thanks for that info hooligan.

May I ask all who replied and those who are looking; What, other than having a collectible piece, draws you to the PAV strap??

I like it's generic and simplistic design, thinner thread used, as well as denser stitch count.
Genuine PAVs come with stitching slightly closer to the edge of the strap, making them visualy wider.

Also they're (original ones anyway) supposed to come in 3.5-4mm thickness, which makes them slightly more wearable as a 'business shirt' type watch.

That and the fact they were straps that came on a first retail-production historic Panerais of a modern era - 5218-20X/A series :)

Still, I don't actually own a gen PAV, so I could be all wrong :)

babola
 

hooligan

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Obviously I guessed wrong! :lol:

Those are all excellent reasons, babola. You pointed out differences in the straps that I hadn't noticed. I'm sure one of the custom strap makers (hint-hint) could probably try to replicate the look of the PAV straps by using thinner thread and a smaller/closer stitch pattern, as well as moving the stitch line a little further outboard. Yes?
 

tootall

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babola said:
tootall said:
Thanks for that info hooligan.

May I ask all who replied and those who are looking; What, other than having a collectible piece, draws you to the PAV strap??

I like it's generic and simplistic design, thinner thread used, as well as denser stitch count.
Genuine PAVs come with stitching slightly closer to the edge of the strap, making them visualy wider.

Also they're (original ones anyway) supposed to come in 3.5-4mm thickness, which makes them slightly more wearable as a 'business shirt' type watch.

That and the fact they were straps that came on a first retail-production historic Panerais of a modern era - 5218-20X/A series :)

Still, I don't actually own a gen PAV, so I could be all wrong :)

babola

Thanks for the points.

To me the thinner thread and closer stitch shows more of a machine made than anything else. This is much like the thinner threads and closer stitching used on rep straps. The width of the stitching is just how the jig or setup would have been.

The thinner leather also shows that Cartier influence and thus provide that this too cost less to produce and allowed for mass production.

The History is the only part of the strap that would make it "worth" anything.

Now are those points that draw you to this PAV strap or were you just pointing out differences?
 

babola

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tootall said:
babola said:
tootall said:
Thanks for that info hooligan.

May I ask all who replied and those who are looking; What, other than having a collectible piece, draws you to the PAV strap??

I like it's generic and simplistic design, thinner thread used, as well as denser stitch count.
Genuine PAVs come with stitching slightly closer to the edge of the strap, making them visualy wider.

Also they're (original ones anyway) supposed to come in 3.5-4mm thickness, which makes them slightly more wearable as a 'business shirt' type watch.

That and the fact they were straps that came on a first retail-production historic Panerais of a modern era - 5218-20X/A series :)

Still, I don't actually own a gen PAV, so I could be all wrong :)

babola

Thanks for the points.

To me the thinner thread and closer stitch shows more of a machine made than anything else. This is much like the thinner threads and closer stitching used on rep straps. The width of the stitching is just how the jig or setup would have been.

The thinner leather also shows that Cartier influence and thus provide that this too cost less to produce and allowed for mass production.

The History is the only part of the strap that would make it "worth" anything.

Now are those points that draw you to this PAV strap or were you just pointing out differences?

Some of them...although there are better straps IMO around. BTW, PAVs were before Cartier/Vendome time, pure Italian design and influence :)

cheers,
babola