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Panerai Heritage

ProFound

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I might get a lot of heat for this post but here it goes...

Every Paneristi I know is obsessed with the brand and always bring up the Italian Navy heritage. Bring up Rolex and they laugh as if Rolex is a shitty watch for those that 'don't know watches'. The more I read about it, the more it seems like the brand never really had a history. Now hear me out... Yes Panerai opened a timepiece shop in Florence in the late 1800's, but when he was commissioned to create a timepiece for the Italian Navy, he went to none other than Rolex for help because Rolex was already manufacturing the water-resistant submariner. The Italian navy watches used Rolex Movements and watch faces. Sure he held a patent on lume technology using highly radioactive substances, but an adequate watchmaker it seems he was not. You can almost equate his contribution to that watch as being the same as what Brabus is to Mercedes Benz, or Alpina to BMW. A glorified modifier.

After the war, nothing much was made of Panerai until Sylvester Stallone (a comical actor but none-the-less big action star) started wearing the watches in a time that poorly scripted action movies were all the rage. It was this Hollywood connection that got Panerai recognized by a global watch conglomerate (Richemont) that rebuilt the company from the ground up and made it what it is today.

Don't get me wrong, I like Panerai watches, but I'm left wondering where the heritage is in them? I own a gen Cartier and my Paneristi friend mocks it for being a jewellery brand and not a true watch maker. But last I checked, Cartier did more to contribute to the history of watch making than Panerai did with the first men's wristwatch in the Santos, and was an equal partner with Jager-LeCoutre in the early days for creating movements. My brother owns a gen Rolex Submariner and he too gets mocked by our Panerai friends who think Rolex owners don't give a crap about watchmaking. Sure Rolex is the number one selling luxury watch brand and a lot of buyers may not know much about watches, but that doesn't discredit the fact that Rolex is a premium watchmaker and more importantly, has always been one.

So is it safe to say that Panerai, as it is today, is a new age big box watchmaker with a false heritage slapped on to it? Or does it truly deserve recognition as a storied horological brand amongst the greats?
 

kilowattore

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Imho you and your friends are confusing the history of watchmaking (made by maisons like Jaeger Le Coultre, Patek Philippe, Cortebert and, later, even Rolex) with the history of miltary watches.
Panerai made innovative watches (readability in the dark and water resistance were not so common in the '30s), their inhouse movements instead are very recent and were all developed after the Richemont takeover.

Btw the Rolex movements mounted in the first 3646s were based on a Cortebert ebauche, meaning they were somehow like our rep movements with decorative bridges :)
 

slaughterer62

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I think there is no question of a heritage in Panerai watches, just that it is a minor, shadowy and even dubious heritage that has been amplified, whitewashed and re-packaged for the purpose of corporate marketing.
 

ProFound

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Imho you and your friends are confusing the history of watchmaking (made by maisons like Jaeger Le Coultre, Patek Philippe, Cortebert and, later, even Rolex) with the history of miltary watches.
Panerai made innovative watches (readability in the dark and water resistance were not so common in the '30s), their inhouse movements instead are very recent and were all developed after the Richemont takeover.

Btw the Rolex movements mounted in the first 3646s were based on a Cortebert ebauche, meaning they were somehow like our rep movements with decorative bridges :)

Ahhhh but they obtained the waterproofing tech/expertise from Rolex as Rolex had proven themselves on that front with their waterproof "oyster perpetual" watches...
 

kilowattore

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Ahhhh but they obtained the waterproofing tech/expertise from Rolex as Rolex had proven themselves on that front with their waterproof "oyster perpetual" watches...

Of course, that's why they choose Rolex.

At that time Officine Panerai were producing precision.instruments for the navy, already using an early radiomir technology. At the same time.the Orologeria Svizzera was selling watches from Patek, Rolex and so on.
In 1936 the italian Navy, after trying several commercial brands without being satisfied, asked Panerai to develop a watch. It had to be waterproof and readable in the dark.
Thanks to the already existing commercial agreements it was natural for OP to ask Rolex, and in less than one year they came out with the first prototype: the 3646 cali dial. The watch was completely made of Rolex parts: movement, case, crown and even dial. Panerai found the way to use its radium paste as a paint for the indices. That watch was needed to show the potential of such luminescent paint to the miltary forces and obtain the job. Immediately Panerai started to develop the first sandwich dials and the following year (1938) Panerai released the first definitive 3646s, a few with Radiomir Panerai dial and a few with sterile dial (meant for high risk sabotage missions were they thought it would have been better to avoid being recognized).

As you see, Panerai history is more about the innovative military oriented functions than proper watchmaking. :)
 

ProFound

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But where's the innovation if they outsourced the job to Rolex and painted on the lume? Is the innovation in making a larger face? Sure it was 'innovative' to use a known, radioactive glowing substance to make the dial readable, but holding the patent does not alone make it innovative. It just meant that none of the credible watchmakers could go out and do the same thing.

Being the leader (if they even were) in military instruments doesn't necessarily translate to watches. I think slaughterer262 a few posts up hit the nail on the head with his assessment...
 

Tucker

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"Sylvester Stallone (a comical actor...)"
Ok. That's just not fair. Rocky did win an Academy award. :laugh:
 

ProFound

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Don't get me wrong when I say this stuff. PAM watches are badass and today employ interesting movements. Before I dug into it, I was convinced that Panerai was a storied company with a rich watch making history. I was surprised to find out that it isn't. I then realized that they did a great job marketing what little 'heritage' exists with the brand. Kudos to Richemont.
 

ProFound

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"Sylvester Stallone (a comical actor...)"
Ok. That's just not fair. Rocky did win an Academy award. :laugh:

dreddss.jpg
 

Superman76

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I dunno... Probably the wrong place to be getting snobby about "heritage." Of course panerai is overpriced for what it is... That's what brings us here. :) that said, I think the 372 at about 6k w/ in house movement ain't that bad.
 

dood

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Every Paneristi I know is obsessed with the brand and always bring up the Italian Navy heritage. Bring up Rolex and they laugh as if Rolex is a shitty watch for those that 'don't know watches'.

Is this actually true or are you making this part up? They laugh at Rolex as if its a shitty brand for people who don't know watches? They mock you for wearing a Cartier and laugh at your brother for wearing a submariner? I don't buy it.

Most of the Paneristi I know are well aware that the history/heritage thing is embellished by Richemont's re-branding and marketing. They don't like them because it is a "storied horological brand among the greats" they like them because they are cool and unique and well designed.
 

Stromtrooper4

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Couldn't agree more. Panerai wouldn't be here if it wasn't for Stallone.

The fascist army connection I think is a bit of Marketing BS. 2 blokes on some crappy torpedo who might have wanted to tell the time doesn't warrant the historic Fanfare. I think Rolex has a much great pedigree especially with the likes of world leaders wearing them good or bad. The only people who wear Panerai are fashionista.
Saying that I have twice as many Pams and Rollies so who am I to judge
 

ProFound

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Is this actually true or are you making this part up? They laugh at Rolex as if its a shitty brand for people who don't know watches? They mock you for wearing a Cartier and laugh at your brother for wearing a submariner? I don't buy it.

Most of the Paneristi I know are well aware that the history/heritage thing is embellished by Richemont's re-branding and marketing. They don't like them because it is a "storied horological brand among the greats" they like them because they are cool and unique and well designed.

It's a pair of them that always run their mouth off about it. One of them worked for Richemont which probably explains his hate for Rolex. He further went on about his hate for Cartier as they hadn't made their own movements in ages. And don't even get him started on Omega... what he dubs as "another watch worn by clueless buyers with too much money".
 

ProFound

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But what I find interesting about Panerai is the way they sell it. When I was just in Vegas, they wouldn't sell it in the megastores that carried multiple brands, but only in stand alone boutique shops. The prices have gone up significantly on these watches in the last 10 years as they really are pushing to make them as exclusive as possible. The one boutique I went to didn't shy away from military and submarine inspired imagery. And it rubs off on the wearers of Panerai who love those rough around the edges worn out straps that make the watch look like it was battle worn.

This all to me seems like a facade of marketing hype. They are good looking watches undoubtedly, but I can't help but roll my eyes at the marketing of it.
 

chris3007

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All my PAM's come from China...and i can't find something about China in Panerai's heritage...

[emoji6][emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone 6
 
D

d4m.test

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Panerai was given the task to produce easily readable, large dive watches. So step 1 in the Panerai contribution to watch-design heritage was to take the Cortebert pocket-watch movement improved by Rolex, turn it by 90 degrees and re-apply it as a wristwatch with winding at 3 (instead of 12) and seconds at 9 (instead of 6) using modified casesets of their existing instrument line:
Panerai-Compass.jpg

While Rolex already had produced a watch suitable for swimming in early 1926 it was mainly through the cooperation with Panerai in the 1930s and 1940s, developing and producing military dive watches, that Rolex acquired the technically know-how to later release the first submariner in 1953. Either it´s mere coincidence or Rolex also took some cues from Blancpain, they had started developing the automatic Fifty Fathoms in 1952 for the French Navy, also released in 1953:
1398527974760

Step 2 design-contribution from Panerai was a sandwich-type dial which allows for the application of large quantities of lume.
Step 3: Panerai was well familiar with the crown-striping problem on screw-in-crowns so from 1953-1956 (after finishing the cooperation with Rolex) they took a different route developing and patenting in 1956 the "crown-protection-device" or "watertight seal device" which remains quite unique in it´s design and features until today. In my opinion it´s from this very characteristic feature that Panerai can trace back a true design-heritage contribution to watchmaking, which remains quite unique until today.
The cg-device not only pressurizes the crown against the watertight seals, it also allows for the crown not being totally pushed out accidentally and it protects the crown itself from drops or impact better than later introduced stubby crownguards.
Overall quite some contributions to the dive-watch design imho which the Richemont-group succeeded in marketing well and drawing profits from. Guido Panerai before them did just not have the means to compete in big business and to set up large scale productions.
LEVERFITTINGCOMPN-K-Hcopiar_zps4318d19f.jpg