PAM312 VSF or another auto?

[Pacho]

I am looking to buy a PAM as a gift for my little bro, since he very much liked my 111. He is not into manual winding though, so I am looking for an auto Luminor.

Currently I have my eye on the 312 VSF, but since the guide is not updated that often, I am not sure whether this is my best option right now compared to the super reps. Plus there is the availability issue with some of the older releases. Can anyone shine some light into my research?

 

[mysterio]

What is your priority? It initially sounds like you want the PAM312 but you are looking into other super reps so is it the model or is it the replication? The VSF PAM312 is as good as it can get currently in terms of that model. There is no judgement yet whether it is a super rep so if that is another criteria then I suggest you look at other models, however the style of the PAM312 is unique and you won't be able to find a similar looking model (unless you consider PAM359, PAM320, PAM351 but those are just variations on the same style).

 

[Pacho]

Since it is not for me, the degree of replication is also a factor, since I do not know where he draws the line on flaws. I just cannot find where the 312 stands compared to other PAM autos.

 

[mysterio]

I would just ask your brother how anal he is on flaws. Trying to base a purchase on an unknown reference is tricky. Unless your brother doesn't know it's a rep.

 

[Pacho]

I guess we should start with the 312 no matter what. For around $300, with flaws or not, we can always sell it m2m with a rather small loss, if my lil bro does not like it, though I doubt anyone in our little country can actually pick what model it is, even less point out flows (even local gen Panerai owners have not been able to call out mine 111 even looking at the open caseback, they could not even tell what the model is, rather I have received a lot of compliments for a <$300 rep). My main concern is someone calling out my brother wearing a rep. For most of us this is not a problem, but he is still a teenager, so I am not sure how he would take this.

At that point, my only question is only whether I should buy VSF 312/359 or V6F's 1312 and the rest, in terms of accuracy and quality? For both of those I could not find reviews. The super rep autos based on the guide don't not seem to be in production anymore or they cost much more than a teenager can justify like the Carbotech, so I am stuck with models, that have not been reviewed thoroughly.

I hate being the guy opening the thread what is the best AUTO PAM, but I am really lost when I have to buy it for someone else. I have been way happier with my 111 then with my gen Tag Carrera whatever, but millenniums do not enjoy winding watches like we do.

 

[gozepher]

How about the newly released vsf 388? I have the vsf 312 as my first rep and it's really high quality stuff.

 

[mysterio]

I guess we should start with the 312 no matter what. For around $300, with flaws or not, we can always sell it m2m with a rather small loss, if my lil bro does not like it, though I doubt anyone in our little country can actually pick what model it is, even less point out flows (even local gen Panerai owners have not been able to call out mine 111 even looking at the open caseback, they could not even tell what the model is, rather I have received a lot of compliments for a <$300 rep). My main concern is someone calling out my brother wearing a rep. For most of us this is not a problem, but he is still a teenager, so I am not sure how he would take this.

At that point, my only question is only whether I should buy VSF 312/359 or V6F's 1312 and the rest, in terms of accuracy and quality? For both of those I could not find reviews. The super rep autos based on the guide don't not seem to be in production anymore or they cost much more than a teenager can justify like the Carbotech, so I am stuck with models, that have not been reviewed thoroughly.

I hate being the guy opening the thread what is the best AUTO PAM, but I am really lost when I have to buy it for someone else. I have been way happier with my 111 then with my gen Tag Carrera whatever, but millenniums do not enjoy winding watches like we do.

Well, I'm just going to comment on the reps as your little country is rather interesting for a teenager to be able to even wear any starter PAM. The VSF PAM312 is one of the best versions, if not the best, that can be purchased right now. For the PAM1312, there are two choices, the ZF and the V6F, although make sure you are getting the P.9010 version based on the A7750, not the "Lite" version, which uses the A23J movement with the balance wheel @6, which is totally wrong.

Opening a thread isn't bad, but make sure to provide as much information so that others can guide you on what choices you have available.

 

[Pacho]

Well, I'm just going to comment on the reps as your little country is rather interesting for a teenager to be able to even wear any starter PAM. The VSF PAM312 is one of the best versions, if not the best, that can be purchased right now. For the PAM1312, there are two choices, the ZF and the V6F, although make sure you are getting the P.9010 version based on the A7750, not the "Lite" version, which uses the A23J movement with the balance wheel @6, which is totally wrong.

Opening a thread isn't bad, but make sure to provide as much information so that others can guide you on what choices you have available.

Haha yeah, for Eastern Europe it is still normal for a teenager to wear a 5k gen, based on his parents' income, it's a wild place. But since that at that age there is a big chance of him destroying it, I would rather get him a rep. Heck even myself at 30, my main reason for getting in the rep world is the anxiety I get from the chance I could destroy my gens on a weekend bender.

Anyway, would you say the 312 VSF is a better rep than the 1312s of ZF/V6F? I am sorry for asking in a such newbie way, but I cannot find enough reviews on these new reps to form a decision. Plus VSF is a rather new factory for me.

 

[Pacho]

How about the newly released vsf 388? I have the vsf 312 as my first rep and it's really high quality stuff.

He likes the Luminor Marina case, so the 388 is not an option. But thanks for sharing your opinion on the 312, I could not find enough reviews on it, hence this thread.

 

[mysterio]

Haha yeah, for Eastern Europe it is still normal for a teenager to wear a 5k gen, based on his parents' income, it's a wild place. But since that at that age there is a big chance of him destroying it, I would rather get him a rep. Heck even myself at 30, my main reason for getting in the rep world is the anxiety I get from the chance I could destroy my gens on a weekend bender.

Anyway, would you say the 312 VSF is a better rep than the 1312s of ZF/V6F? I am sorry for asking in a such newbie way, but I cannot find enough reviews on these new reps to form a decision. Plus VSF is a rather new factory for me.

Well, VSF is basically just V6F (and also XF) if you read Angus' Industry Insights section so you're comparing the same factory. The PAM312 is a bit thicker so if you're brother likes chunky watches then that's the way to go. Alternatively, the PAM1312 as you know is a newer model, so if he prefers to have the latest and doesn't mind the slightly thinner profile, then that would be more preferable.

 

[Pacho]

Well, VSF is basically just V6F (and also XF) if you read Angus' Industry Insights section so you're comparing the same factory. The PAM312 is a bit thicker so if you're brother likes chunky watches then that's the way to go. Alternatively, the PAM1312 as you know is a newer model, so if he prefers to have the latest and doesn't mind the slightly thinner profile, then that would be more preferable.

Coming from quartz sporty watches, I doubt he knows what he wants at that point. The main factor for the first rep is quality and accuracy of the rep, but based on your posts, I think the 312 is a great option for a first rep.

 

[mysterio]

Coming from quartz sporty watches, I doubt he knows what he wants at that point. The main factor for the first rep is quality and accuracy of the rep, but based on your posts, I think the 312 is a great option for a first rep.

Both are very good reps. The PAM312 has been like that for some time now, quality of construction is very gen like, now improved with the better looking movement in terms of visual accuracy. The PAM1312 is just building on that legacy with a thinner profile (that in itself was a feat because it's a new case, probably helped along by the fact that it shared the case with other models such as the PAM359, PAM320, etc). Whichever you choose, I'm sure your brother will find it very nice.

 

[Vyman]

ive just gotten my 312 VsF from a TD - ill post some pictures later tonight.its a good build..ill recommend you to go for this as a first PAM rep

 

[Vyman]

Sorry for the delay.. Here are the pics

 

[mysterio]

Sorry for the delay.. Here are the picsView attachment 6453 View attachment 6454

Congratulations on the pickup. It is a very nice watch indeed.

 

[willj1991]

I have a PAM 029 and it is a FANTASTIC automatic Panerai rep, its up there with some of the best PAMs

 

[Flashbolt987]

How has reliability been on the automatic movements? The manual winds have been great. I have an AP Diver V7 and recently I can't move the hands anymore with the crown...

 

[mysterio]

How has reliability been on the automatic movements? The manual winds have been great. I have an AP Diver V7 and recently I can't move the hands anymore with the crown...

That may be just an issue with the stem, which says something about the worksmanship not reliability. The automatic movements on the more than 5 (ahem) watches in my collection have so far been working well, the oldest being 10 years, I think (Breitling SOSF from Neil, God Rest his soul).

 

[Flashbolt987]

That may be just an issue with the stem, which says something about the worksmanship not reliability. The automatic movements on the more than 5 (ahem) watches in my collection have so far been working well, the oldest being 10 years, I think (Breitling SOSF from Neil, God Rest his soul).

Great feedback, thanks!