PAM127 identification help needed from the experts - Noob or XF...?

[Woundup]

I recently traded for this 127 so that I could use it as a base for a future 203 build. The previous owner bought it new from Trusty back in early 2020 and is certain that he bought it as a Noob version. I was fairly convinced that it was an XF due to the fact that it has the y incabloc - which from what I can see in ALE's excellent reference the Noob did not have. However, in reading his notes I believe that there were some 'hybrid' Noob versions that used parts from other factories.

Now that I have the watch in hand, I'm not so sure that it is an XF as the lugs are nowhere near as sharp and the CG lever is firm compared to how they were on my XF 127 before I sent it to have those issues corrected. My XF 127 is currently with Marlin for his full suite of mods, so I'm not able to compare the two watches side by side.

From what I can see, the engravings on the plates of this watch look to be nearly identical to the Noob version pictured in ALE's thread.

Are there any experts out there who can confirm which version this is?

BTW - I am aware that the micro adjustment screw is missing from the swan neck - it had come out and was stuck in the caseback thread so I opened it up and have it in a container ready to be reinstalled when I have the other work done.

 

[KOT1917]

Hello.

In general, it is most convenient to determine the PAM127 factory by the position of the engravings on the balance bridge.
But in the case of the XF, initially, all the samples that were shown by the buyers did not have a satin finish on these areas, like the end of the case:
This is not always obvious in the photo, but if it is on your watch, then it is exclusively XF specific.

 

[KOT1917]

I don’t know if they fixed it over time, but all the first samples had this flaw, which is not always noticeable in any other photo. You can take a look at this in posts # 168, 169 on the PAM127 XF thread:
https://forum.replica-watch.info/forum/panerai/9475149-xf-pam127

 

[superspark69]

The most recent noob 127s had the y incabloc too but also a long micro metric screw

 

[Woundup]

KOT1917 - This 127 does seem to have this flaw above the lugs... Thanks for pointing that out. However I am still unsure as to why the lugs (sharpness) and CG lever are so much better on this one than my other XF127. I also wonder if XF used the same factory to produce the movement plates that Noob did - the engravings on this watch seem to be identical to those on the Noob version in ALE's thread:

 

[KOT1917]

Thanks for the information, Woundup !

I agree into account lugs, engraving scales, CG.

I guess Twinny having a noob could tell more precisely, and I would also ask johnlogan show balance assembly and dagger with XF adjustment scale. In most XF photos, I can't even see the fifth long strip in the middle, and it's obviously farther from the blue screw than in your photos.

 

[Woundup]

Thanks for the information, Woundup !

I agree into account lugs, engraving scales, CG.

I guess Twinny having a noob could tell more precisely, and I would also ask johnlogan show balance assembly and dagger with XF adjustment scale. In most XF photos, I can't even see the fifth long strip in the middle, and it's obviously farther from the blue screw than in your photos.

You are correct again... I just found a picture of my XF127 that was taken prior to sending it to Marlin - the center marker in the adjustment scale is definitely not the same:

 

[tommikeson]

Marlin is doing mods on the XF?

 

[johnlogan]

XF

 

[RepIseek]

I just picked this up via M2M. Based on its purchase by the first owner around 2018, I believe this is a Noob re-release...though the micro screw doesn’t appear overly long. Either way, I love it!

 

[Twinny]

Thanks for the information, Woundup !

I agree into account lugs, engraving scales, CG.

I guess Twinny having a noob could tell more precisely, and I would also ask johnlogan show balance assembly and dagger with XF adjustment scale. In most XF photos, I can't even see the fifth long strip in the middle, and it's obviously farther from the blue screw than in your photos.

Unfortunately I sold my Noob Fiddy (last batch) last year to Alex1976.

But I‘ve found some pics. Maybe they can help to clarify the things.

 

[Woundup]

Thanks for the input everyone. The watch I posted above is a Noob version - as verified by Marlin himself. Having looked at all of the macro pictures I could find of the two versions I think I can now easily spot the differences!

The Noob is now on its way to Marlin - he will use the best parts from both watches to build the best possible rep 127 and the XF will be used for the base of my 203 homage.

 

[BlueLineFarmer]

Thanks for the input everyone. The watch I posted above is a Noob version - as verified by Marlin himself. Having looked at all of the macro pictures I could find of the two versions I think I can now easily spot the differences!

The Noob is now on its way to Marlin - he will use the best parts from both watches to build the best possible rep 127 and the XF will be used for the base of my 203 homage.

Smart move to have Marlin build you and mod a PAM 127, his work is fantastic.

 

[Woundup]

Smart move to have Marlin build you and mod a PAM 127, his work is fantastic.

It's been a long wait due to covid issues and an injury to his hand, though I was lucky enough to be first in line when he began accepting work again. I don't think he's going to be doing anywhere close to the amount of projects as he was prior to the covid outbreak, so anyone interested in having a watch cross his bench needs to have a good deal of patience.

I'm fortunate to have been able to acquire this Noob in new condition when I did (basically just in time to for Marlin to be able to halt work on the XF) It would have been a shame to have had to live with the flaws of the XF even with Marlin's modifications. Don't get me wrong, I still think the XF version is a very nice watch - but it ain't a Noob....