PAM reps vs. Rolex reps

[Rollout]

Hello all,

I'm fairly new to the rep market but have done quite a bit of research on Rolex reps and have seen (and own) some of the best quality Rolex reps in the industry today.

I've recently started getting interested in PAM reps and it's quite astonishing how accurate these PAM reps are compared to Rolexes. Currently all the best factory made Rolex reps have some (IMO) glaring flaws that wouldn't be tolerable to the incabloc-scrutinizing folks in the PAM scene.

So my question is, or basis for discussion rather, why are PAM reps so much more accurate than Rolex reps?

Rolex isn't so much more technically complex than a PAM. If you take the most popular Rolex rep (16610) and compare it to the most popular PAM rep (111) it would seem the PAM would be more difficult to replicate due to the display back. In fact, a highly accurate y-incabloc modded PAM111 can be had for under $500 straight from factory whereas a highly accurate Rolex Submariner would require at least a genuine bezel insert which would cost $350 for the bezel insert alone.

Is Montres Rolex better at policing the replica market than Panerai? Is Panerai a more popular rep hence more resources put into the manufacturing processes?

Thoughts?

 

[Raddave]

My thoughts?

Rolex is more popular, their demand is greater. EVERYBODY wants a Rolex, including non WIS types. The non WIS have a greater tolerance for flaws, because they are not aware of them. Therefore the market is more lax because they WILL sell those flawed reps anyway.

PAMs on the other hand, are sought more by people who know watches.


I could be wrong, but thats my theory...

 

[Bonesey]

Rolex IS technically more complex than a Panerai. Applied markers, very fine dial print, rotating bezels, ceramic bezels, massive variation in detail between models. It has nothing to do with policing and a lot to do with how simple a Pam is. Especially the base and luminor watches.

 

[ALE7575]

Would things change if we get an answer to your questions?

Do you like PAM reps?

Therefore, just buy them and ENJOY them !

Nowadays PAM really are the best available replicas and at very good price in comparison with other Super replicas.

All RWI PAM Section members and especially PCTeam will continue making reviews and comparison threads in order to get better and better PAM replicas in the future.
I assure you than PAM replicas will improve more and more every year due to studies and reviews from RWI PAM Section.

ALE

 

[Rollout]

Would things change if we get an answer to your questions?

ALE

With all due respect, questions are the catalysts for ingenuity and progress. Look what happened when someone examined the first PAM111 and asked "what can we improve?" How would things have changed if immediately someone responded "just enjoy it."

 

[45acp]

Also, Rolex reps are far and away the most popular ones, in spite of their flaws. Producing more accurate, higher quality reps would be more costly, and they sell plenty of them as it is.

 

[sanankid]

a closed caseback 005 is the best rep pam to me. it is nearly flawless.

 

[ALE7575]

With all due respect, questions are the catalysts for ingenuity and progress. Look what happened when someone examined the first PAM111 and asked "what can we improve?" How would things have changed if immediately someone responded "just enjoy it."

Hi rollout

Sorry my friend if I have seemed a little rude. No my intention

Indeed you know we are hard working to achieve the best results in PAM replicas.

Trying to get an answer to your question, maybe some PAM replicas as Luminor Marina or Base are less complex than Rolex ones. And also PAM people are less extended and are more exigent about quality.
Nothing to do IMO with policing of companies.

I apologize for bothering you

Regards

ALE :cheers:

 

[revhrd]

Rolex IS technically more complex than a Panerai. Applied markers, very fine dial print, rotating bezels, ceramic bezels, massive variation in detail between models. It has nothing to do with policing and a lot to do with how simple a Pam is. Especially the base and luminor watches.

That sums it up. And even then, it took many years for PAMs to achieve super rep status. There are many models that were far from good. Maybe it is a gradual marketing point to produce better reps as to charge more for them.

Technically, the material cost is relatively constant what changes is the accuracy of the details. This is where profit can be maximized and as we can see super reps now command $250+ price points. Of course that also means that we become more demanding and want more for our money.

 

[Rollout]

Technically, the material cost is relatively constant what changes is the accuracy of the details. This is where profit can be maximized...

Kind of reminds me of the iPhone business model. Every year a new iPhone comes out with only minimal changes. Yet we all clamor to get our mitts on one anyways.

I think you guys are correct though regarding the Rolex being more technical. The more I think about it the big "tells" on a rolex are usually in regards to "installation/application" of the parts and not the parts themselves. Rehaut engraving being misaligned, poorly applied lume, crooked hour indices, off-center bezel pearl, etc. These are all symptoms of mass-production and you guys are also right about the sub being the most widely replicated watch in the industry.

 

[GeDi]

My friend i believe if ALE made a guide for rolexes as he did for PAM's then the level of excellence for rolexes would improve significantly

 

[JoehwrfcJ]

I think this is a complex question that has many reasons

1) rolex is the most instantly recognisable luxury watch brand, so more people will want one of these than anything else thusly people with less interest/knowledge will be willing to have a canal street quality option just so they can say they have a rolex. This leads to a lower level care needed to sell mass amounts of replica watches so the percentages of us who enjoy a good rep will be lower for rolex than it will be for other brands

2) panerai's as a whole are a very simple watch, dial, hands, case, movement is all simple. It's what I like most about panerai but its also what makes Panerai the easier wastes to rep especially models with just 2 damn hands. Most well repped panerai watches are based on stock eta etc movements that rep factory's have easy access to. The 111/005/112/000 etc case is pretty simple with no rotating bezel etc and still it could be better (especially h fact) and only recently we have seen a decent sharp crown gaurd. It wasn't too long ago you could spot a pam reap a mile off just by looking at the crown pin.

3) the opposite to panerai being a simple watch rolex can be more complicated than they look, for starters thy use their own movements, no 7750 daytonas here, so the rep factories have to adapt and this already puts them at a disadvantage to panerai reps. Rolex reps also have applied markers, rotating bezels, dates, more complicated crystals (cyclops, laser etcing) rehault rings, bracelets, clasps to get right.

So A lot more work has to go in to rolexes and whist panerai reps are probably the most accurate reps they should be! just look at the two photos below and it's easy to see why panerai reps are more accurate.

 

[Rollout]

I think this is a complex question that has many reasons
[/IMG]

Great points. While I was reading your post I realized that I would never buy a gen Panerai for the reasons you mentioned. Simple design, no special technology, and ETA based movements. Not worth spending Rolex prices on a watch that doesn't even have in-house movement. But ill definitely continue to buy the PAM super reps

 

[GeDi]

First of all, Panerai has now a variety of in-house movements.
Its simplicity is more based upon the design and not the costruction.
Of course some models are simple. Its their basic approach.
But is bit a simple watch, its a clean cut minimal watch. Remember sometimes complexity can be hidden behind simplicity.
Moreover there also some more complex panerai busy looking models.

If you pay attention you might find rolexes to be simpler than some PAMS.

 

[Arancini]

It's the simplicity of PAM designs which make them, IMO, the better watch compared to Rolex.

Less is More.

 

[JoehwrfcJ]

Great points. While I was reading your post I realized that I would never buy a gen Panerai for the reasons you mentioned. Simple design, no special technology, and ETA based movements. Not worth spending Rolex prices on a watch that doesn't even have in-house movement. But ill definitely continue to buy the PAM super reps

Panerai do some great watches with in house movements to be fair, but these make terrible reps.

For me as an absolute panerai freak, who's owned gen of both the eta based and In house models, I'd only buy panerai's with the in house movements as the rep eta models are just to close to gen to make buying the gen sensible.

I would however buy another gen rolex as the reps are quite far from the gens

 

[Rollout]

I apologize I misspoke. I've been looking at a gen 000 for my wife for a week now and I guess my previous comment was somewhat influenced by that model's specs.

The Unitas based models are definitely not worth the price, IMO. A Unitas movement can be had for a little under a $100 and from what I can tell the OP movement is not modified by Panerai except the decoration. But I would definitely consider a p9000 calibre model. However at the price of a Submariner ceramic I would probably still choose the sub-c.

 

[farquar]

We had sub par pam reps for years before this super rep business and every pam guy on these forums were screaming to the rep factories how come u guys can nail a porsche flat 6 but not a simple pam 111..How times change).So I dont think simplicity has anything to do with it..These Chinese factories are just scary good these days thats all. And I bet they will solve whatever flaw a rolex rep may have if they put their heart in it. They may get out of this rep business all together too if things go at this rate..

 

[d4m.test]

I feel pam233, or 270 > any Rolex

 

[SDhar]

I am a newbie here, but a design professional and architect for many many years. This is a very good question so was compelled to give an opinion.

IMO, Panerais (esp. the Luminor and Rads) BY FAR look way more sophisticated in terms of their design than ANY Rolex. They are architectural!! As Mies once said about his architecture... Less is More! A Panerai has that design quality that ONLY Italians understand (and do so well), but to top that, its a Italian-Swiss combo made in heaven. That said, the MOST architectural of ALL watches I have seen in the Junghuns Max Bill chronograph. Its a Bauhaus masterpiece, but the Pams are not far behind. Just my $0.02