Pam 508 vs 577

[racca]

I'm looking at these two watches PAM 508 kw VF6 Is listed as super rep,but it isn't a real ceamic but DLC tratment and Seqgull st 2555 is a reliable mov?
otherwise Pam 577 from toro has a solid back (original has display) and the movement i Think 6497 manual decorated to p3000 very very reliable.Wich is the winner?

 

[racca]

And 508

 

[tr573]

The newer 508 (vsf) is a ceramic case

http://www.toro.fun/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=508&product_id=2708

I realize the price point is very different, but "you get what you pay for" and all that if you want the real ceramic case.

 

[racca]

Is very different DLC vs Ceramic?


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[tr573]

DLC is coated steel, so it's a stainless steel case which has undergone an electroplating treatment (like gold plating, but with black/carbon treatment)

The Ceramic one is a ceramic case (probably zirconia oxide) - the look is not exactly the same (the DLC steel is probably a bit shiny, the zirconia cases are usually very flat/matte black.) Ceramic is much lighter due to it's lower density (5.8g/cc vs 7.8g/cc or so for steel) , and is much harder/more scratch resistant (8.5 mohs vs 7.5, so you could still scratch it with a diamond or sapphire, but not with most metals.) It's also much easier to crack/shatter than steel, so it's more susceptible to drops or hard whacks against something sharp and hard, so easier to crack but much harder to scratch.

 

[racca]

Very exaustive explication!Thanks and what about seagull mov?


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[tr573]

ST2555 is fine as a movement, but like always YMMV since they're decorating it and reassembling it in an illicit factory and you may get one that's dirty and runs badly just like any other movement in these things. It's more of a "replace if it dies" (like the miyotas) rather than service it movement though since it's not worth much $$.

 

[racca]

ok ???? thanks


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[mysterio]

Well, since you asked about the Seagull movement without mentioning any specifics, tr573 probably thought you were asking about the movement reliability vs price, which is valid. The ST2555 version is always cheaper in the initial outlay compared to the A7750 version, but the caveat is when it breaks, it usually requires the replacement of the whole movement while for the A7750, a watchmaker may just require replacement of some parts.Plain reliability wise, these are movements assembled in an illicit factory where conditions aren't exactly optimal for movement production. Now if your question was about how accurate is it, well it is as accurate as the A7750, being that the movement is hidden behind a closed caseback so visually and functionally they are no different. But then if your watch isn't the full ceramic version, then the invisible movement is the least of your problems,

The latest PAM508 with full ceramic case and the updated P.9000 movement which looks AND functions is the best version of the watch to date. It's virtually indistinguishable from the gen. The only possible improvement would be to add a 2xAR crystal.

 

[racca]

Thanks Mysteryo, but why Pam 577 from Toro has closeback?


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[tr573]

Because it's a cheap rep. There's a more expensive version with clone mvmt and see through back (although case still not actual ceramic for this model) , but it costs almost 2x the money: https://puretime.io/pam577-r-sf-best-edition-on-thick-brown-leather-strap-p3000-super-clone.html

You get what you pay for - if you buy reps that are <200$ , don't expect super accuracy.

 

[mysterio]

Thanks Mysteryo, but why Pam 577 from Toro has closeback?


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You'll have to ask toro about that.

 

[pechspils]

illicit factory

There's no reason for the movement factories to be illegal. For example, patent protection for the 7750 expired in the last millennium and Sea-Gull is a perfectly legal entity. They movements are made with cheap labour and cheap components and a lack of decent QC.
The watch assembly "factory" is a different story though, but the standard movements being used are perfectly legal.

 

[mysterio]

There's no reason for the movement factories to be illegal. For example, patent protection for the 7750 expired in the last millennium and Sea-Gull is a perfectly legal entity. They movements are made with cheap labour and cheap components and a lack of decent QC.
The watch assembly "factory" is a different story though, but the standard movements being used are perfectly legal.

The product itself may be legal manufacture (ignoring the deplorable working conditions), but depending on where they're used, it still can be deemed as illegal. It's called secondary infringement. Unless the movement factory can prove that it had absolutely no knowledge of the activity of its partner who was directly guilty of copyright infringement, they are still liable. It's all legalese but yeah, still not above board.

 

[racca]

Interesting discussion but definitely worth buying these watches (pam 508 -577 from toro)or it is evident on wrist that they are cheap reps?Frankly I have some watches with 6497 mov and never problems ,very good movement,I have one P3000 super clone and after one month it broke (balance pinion).I bought this pam 448 from TS watches without service and now the watch is at my watch smith for a difficult repair because no spare parts is available.Perhaps watches without service are more prone to breakage for a no control quality?

 

[$$Bone$$]

If reliability is your first priority, then the 577 with the 6497 is the way I suggest you go. That movement is a tank, and if it does break it is easy to service and even easier (and usually cheaper) to replace.
If you want the most visually and tacitly accurate watch, get the ceramic 508.

 

[racca]

Yes this is way!


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[mysterio]

If reliability is your first priority, then the 577 with the 6497 is the way I suggest you go. That movement is a tank, and if it does break it is easy to service and even easier (and usually cheaper) to replace.
If you want the most visually and tacitly accurate watch, get the ceramic 508.

The A6497 manual movement is more reliable than the A7750 automatic movement, but in reality not by much. Got both manual winds and automatics, have not needed a repair/service.thus far.

 

[$$Bone$$]

The A6497 manual movement is more reliable than the A7750 automatic movement, but in reality not by much. Got both manual winds and automatics, have not needed a repair/service.thus far.

Yes, The A7750 only seems to fail when the chronograph is used improperly. So in this case it's a moot point.
However *if* one were to fail, the A6497 is cheaper to replace.

All this being said, we are comparing two relatively reliable movements in two relatively inexpensive watches. Buy whatever one you think you will enjoy more.


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