• Tired of adverts on RWI? - Subscribe by clicking HERE and PMing Trailboss for instructions and they will magically go away!

PAM 505 - Gen vs. KW vs. ZFac - The point of view of TSWatches

MarkTS

Banned member, the goat does not approve
Banned
5/8/08
1,371
0
0
672A68079898-2_zpsc794f3ca.jpg


6:00 Dial "swiss made" kw pam505 more smaller. but ZF pam505 just is same.

672A68079898-1_zpsa09396ca.jpg


the crown . KW pam505 is not same as gen. but ZF pam505 more closed to gen watch.


672A68079898-4_zps62f0ebe3.jpg

672A68079898-5_zps2db25d9d.jpg


there is no word engraving on KW pam505 clasp. but gen pam505 and ZF pam505 have word engraving.


672A68079898-8_zps0485573c.jpg


THIS IS GEN PAM505 ABOVE

672A68079898-7_zps2e3667f4.jpg


THIS IS KW PAM505 ABOVE

672A68079898-6_zpsc3fff1fa.jpg


THIS IS ZF PAM505 ABOVE. YOU WILL SEE. THE KW PAM505 "9000" IS WRONG WAY .BUT GEN WATCH AND ZF PAM505 IS SAME WAY.

672A68079898-9_zps375df85c.jpg


THE KW PAM505 STRAP HOLE TOO LARGE. BUT ZF PAM505 MORE CLOSE TO GEN STRAP.

672A68079898-10_zpsc0391b01.jpg


YOU CAN SEE THE KW PAM505 STRAP COLOR MORE DARK. AND MORE HARD. BUT ZF STRAP MORE SOFT AND CLOSE WITH GEN.


672A68079898-11_zpscd8e6f17.jpg


GEN WATCH WEIGHT IS 101.4G

672A68079898-12_zps598dc726.jpg


ZF PAM505 WEIGHT IS 110.3G


672A68079898-13_zps3aab72ec.jpg


KW PAM505 WEIGHT IS 134.7G

SO KW WATCH WEIGHT TOO HEAVY.
 

Boominferno

Getting To Know The Place
27/3/14
41
0
0
Is that KW v1? As my v2 KW has a faint engraving on the buckle and I don't believe the P9000 engraving on the back looks as shoddy as the one shown in your picture.
 

MarkTS

Banned member, the goat does not approve
Banned
5/8/08
1,371
0
0
is that kw v1? As my v2 kw has a faint engraving on the buckle and i don't believe the p9000 engraving on the back looks as shoddy as the one shown in your picture.

kw p9000 is not correct way.
 

ALE7575

Section Mod
Section Moderator
Certified
18/1/11
19,846
423
83
Thanks Mark for giving us this opportunity of a direct comparison GEN- ZFac and KW PAM 505
I will include this link in my PAM GUIDE

It would be very interesting for this forum that dealers publish some informative thread like yours. I’m very grateful for that.

I agree completely with your comments included in above post. Indeed I had included all those features of ZFac PAM 505 in my complete comparison review ZFac vs. KW PAM 505
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php?t=179812

I have just two matters to discuss:

1- KW strap is not darker than gen and ZFac. It really is clearly lighter when it is new. You can see the real colour in the pics of my review where the rep strap are new without use. KW strap in your pics is darkened used and with a lot of dark patina.
Anyway ZFac strap, as commented in my thread is clearly better and more accurate. Indeed, has you know, I have kept your strap sample to change it in my KW PAM 505.
ZFac as commented is darker than KW but more accurate and with better quality and appearance.

2- Inscription of CAL P.9000
Since rep movements have inverted layout, the inscriptions can never be the same as gen.
In relation to this matter there are some discussions about inaccuracy of KW versions because the inscription is placed to be read from outside. This placement is not worse than ZFac it is just a different approach to the gen

In Gen CAL P.9000 inscription is placed to be read from the center and inscription finished with P.9000 near the balance wheel.
With an inverted rep layout you cannot get two above mentioned conditions.

Threfore, if you have inscription placed to be read from the center the inscription will start with CAL close to the balance wheel (inaccurate). If you want the inscription finishes with P.9000 close to balance wheel you will need to place the inscription to be read from outside. You cannot keep both conditions

ZFac has just adopted first solution with inaccurate CAL close to the balance wheel
KW has just adopted second solution with inaccurate placement to be read from external side
Therefore IMO it is not fair to say KW P.9000 has wrong placement. It has just another kind of approach to the gen.
Both have some kind of inaccuracy. But I have to admit that, after a lot of observations and studies I like more ZFac solution. But that is a taste matter

After reading your thread I have some comments as follows

a) You have forgotten some better features of ZFac over KW version
- Better placement of date wheel fonts and better accuracy of these fonts
- Better placement and accuracy of caseback inscriptions
- A bit better lume
- Better mid-case shape accuracy

b) In the same way you have forgotten to include some features of KW superior to ZFac version. But this is not the purpose of this thread and I suggest interested people to read my review above mentioned
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php?t=179812
In my opinion, it is a pity, because inclusion of some worse qualities of ZFac had given more reliability and credibility to your thread

Anyway, thanks for sharing this interesting, and TRUE, info and, as above said, I will include this link in my PAM GUIDE

Waiting for a future next thread

All the best
ALE
 

Pamtastic

Renowned Member
31/1/13
832
3
18
I could be wrong, but it looks like the font used for "CAL P9000" is wrong on the zf version. The font kw uses appears to be closer to gen (despite inverted layout).
 

mysterio

Mythical Poster
Advisor
19/8/08
9,794
866
0
I could be wrong, but it looks like the font used for "CAL P9000" is wrong on the zf version. The font kw uses appears to be closer to gen (despite inverted layout).

KW font is nearer to gen than ZFac. Some might prefer the orientation and some the font, but either way, the movement is still inaccurate. I prefer the font to be correct, personally.
 

kilowattore

Sales Moderator / Section Moderator
Staff member
Moderator Sales
Section Moderator
Certified
11/5/13
14,137
6,810
113
Italy
Good comparison, they're both great reps.
A bit more pointing out KW strong points would have made it more accurate. ;)
Appreciate the effort nonetheless.
 

johnosx

Getting To Know The Place
30/1/14
70
0
0
does anyone know where i can get 2 (or more) replacement screws for the KW505 ?
 

kuvarsit

Getting To Know The Place
29/5/13
40
0
0
ZF glass is very different with GEN .



As mark say , 6:00 Dial "swiss made" kw pam505 more smaller. but ZF pam505 just is same.

I check my GEN and take picture , ZF Dail " Panerai " all words obvious mistake , ZF more dark than GEN, KW near GEN , pls check












As P9000 print, different people different view ,
pls check with Gen picture , it is clear , I think ZF violation of common sense.




ZF case back , all words , just like "swiss made " obvious different with GEN , I hard to think about ZF is make as 1:1 GEN?

 

MarkTS

Banned member, the goat does not approve
Banned
5/8/08
1,371
0
0
just want to say. some of point. whatever KW V1 or V2. still not close to GEN. for example: the weight........ i just tell the truth. that's all.
 

elzac

Known Member
7/12/10
156
3
18
kw dial seems closer to gen ... my sense is that dial accuracy matters most... my vote for KW
 

ALE7575

Section Mod
Section Moderator
Certified
18/1/11
19,846
423
83
Please KW and TSW don't turn this thread in a war or I will close the thread

Just explain the features of your watches and the comparisons with the gen or with the other rep.
Both reps are very good and nice but both have advantages and flaws at the same time. Please keep you as objective as possible

PLEASE BE CAREFUL about this subject

ALE
 

kuvarsit

Getting To Know The Place
29/5/13
40
0
0
hi ALE ,Your points is corret , comparison need objective as possible, base on fact .

Mark shipping one pcs ZF505 to you for compare , he need accepted your neutrality review ,

After your Comparison Review , he know both watch have advantages and flaws at the same time ,
when he dont accepted your review , he start new thread, need more objective,
But on this thread , it is very subjective and one-sided, just hype and misguided .