PAM 441 power reserve

[rice923]

Hey fellow PAM enthusiasts! This is my first post, although I've been lurking these forums for a while. Having owned a few poor quality reps during my time, I thought it would be a good idea to just invest a little bit more to get something nicer. I've always had a PAM441. Looks exactly like this one: http://www.replikajamswiss.com/1227...gmt-pam-441-calf-brown-leather-pvd-coated.jpg
It's been my favorite, and I want to get a more accurate rep. I've been looking at the one at InTime, but I've also been reading around about some of the rep movements. My intial thought was that the P9001 rep movement has a working power reserve. Upon reading a bit more from the other threads, it seems like it is purely there as a decoration and nothing more. Is this the case for all the 441 reps? If the power reserve isn't functional, I think I might just stick with what I have

About the 441 that I do have right now, what is the name of that movement? It's been serving me very well thus far, and it seems like quite a workhorse of a movement. If that particular movement is dependable (albeit unsightly compared to more accurate reps), I think I'd rather keep that than spend on another rep that doesn't have a working PR.

 

[mysterio]

You invested a bit more but sadly that did not get you a nicer rep. Movement is older than what my 5 year old PAM reps used. If you're looking for a movement with working PR function, then you should look elsewhere. While the movements do retain power reserve, none of the current PAM reps have a functional PR display. As a result of that movement, the dial features like the length of the 3 marker and the placement of the date window and the subdial is wrong. If you really want to get a nice rep, accept the fact that none of the PR displays work and get a closed caseback.

 

[rice923]

To be clear, I haven't purchased anything recently. I only have one PAM 441 like the one in the link above, and I'm looking for a higher quality one. I'm currently choosing based on the movements found within the watch.

Between the A7550 and Seagull ST2555, it seems like the ST2555 is far better received for being robust and reliable. Is this generally the case? And is the Seagull ST2555 better than the movement that's currently in the 441 I have (Asian 21J I believe). I'm pretty much ready to make the jump and get a 441 with Seagul ST2555 movement for around $350 shipped. Does this sound like the right price point?

 

[Strodda]

The pic you posted looks to have a "23j" seagull movement, which is the 2555. For $350 you better be getting a 7750.

 

[rice923]

I have one question that's been weighing on my mind. If the 7750 is prone to malfunction more than the st2555, why pay so much for it on a non-chronograph rep? I found a 7750 PAM441 for the same price, but don't want it to break down in a short amount of time.

 

[LegoFans]

I think people are saying sec@9 and disabled chrono for 7750 should make it fairly reliable?

 

[Strodda]

IMO the 7750 is not prone to malfunction. But I haven't been in the rep world long enough to know where that idea started. I can assume it's because of all the Daytona sec@6 talk, etc... and that put a negative thought about all 7750s. But the PAM 7750 with just a sec@9 should be very reliable. From barrel to escape wheel it has the same parts as the 28xx and 6497. The 2555 has an extra gear, two pinions and a jeweled(with spring) datewheel plate to accommodate all the extra parts.

 

[rice923]

Alright, sounds pretty reasonable so far. I guess I'll spring for the PAM441 with A7750 then. It's even $10 cheaper than the ST2555 version at InTime.

Edit: Having taken a closer look at the pics provided by TSWatch and InTime, it seems like something is a bit fishy. Both TD offer the A7750 version, but the balance wheels are mounted in different positions. Note that the one by TSWatch is about $100 more than InTime, but TSWatch mentions "fix the direction of the movement of balance wheel." Being a new member, I'm not allowed to post links apparently. Is there some drawback to the movement being offered by InTime to justify the $100 price difference?

 

[Strodda]

There's a typo somewhere. They cannot move the balance wheel. If the balance wheel is around 6, its a seagull.

Can you copy an image link and post just the pic?

 

[rice923]

http://www.intime.co/panerai/1176-p...-on-dark-brown-asso-strap-p9000-movement.html

http://www.ts-station.co/16294-pa16294-pam441-o-real-ceramic-zf-p9001.html

The balance wheels are both @10, but they are mounted in different fashions (note the location of the blue screws in relation to the balance wheels are different)

 

[ALE7575]

http://www.intime.co/panerai/1176-p...-on-dark-brown-asso-strap-p9000-movement.html

http://www.ts-station.co/16294-pa16294-pam441-o-real-ceramic-zf-p9001.html

The balance wheels are both @10, but they are mounted in different fashions (note the location of the blue screws in relation to the balance wheels are different)

Both watches have decorated movement A7750 based

But the cheaper one is Inverted layout (really inaccurate with wrong font inscriptions) and the more expensive has NON-Inverted layout
Is not the balance wheel which changes, not even the REAL balance clock. Just the orientation of balance cock DECORATION is what changes.

ALE

 

[rice923]

I had no idea there were so many variations on just the decoration. To my untrained eye, this is overwhelming to see all these details. Thanks so much for the input so far from everyone.

I'm currently looking at this one: http://www.puretime.watch/product/p...-11-best-edition-on-brown-asso-strap-p9001aa/

Aside from the recent shakiness from Puretime's website closures, I think that watch looks like it will be a good upgrade for me.

 

[ALE7575]

I had no idea there were so many variations on just the decoration. To my untrained eye, this is overwhelming to see all these details. Thanks so much for the input so far from everyone.

I'm currently looking at this one: http://www.puretime.watch/product/p...-11-best-edition-on-brown-asso-strap-p9001aa/

Aside from the recent shakiness from Puretime's website closures, I think that watch looks like it will be a good upgrade for me.

IMO this is the best option with decorated A7750

ALE

 

[ALE7575]

I had no idea there were so many variations on just the decoration. To my untrained eye, this is overwhelming to see all these details. Thanks so much for the input so far from everyone.
.

Yes, the situation of decorated movements is a bit complex due to the constant modifications in last years
Basically we have the versions as follows:

From ZFac
ZFac decorated A7750 Inverted with painted jewels
ZFac decorated A7750 Inverted with “real jewels”
ZFac decorated A7750 NON-inverted ZP9000-V2
ZFac decorated A7750 IMPROVED NON-inverted ZP9000-V2.5

From KW-V6Fac
KW decorated A7750 Inverted
KW-V6Fac decorated A7750 NON-inverted KP9000-V2
KW-V6Fac decorated Seagull ST2555 Inverted
KW-V6Fac decorated Seagull ST2555 NON-inverted KP9000-Seagull V2

Anyway there are even some transition models between some versions

ALE

 

[rice923]

This search for just one rep has been extremely eye opening for me. Thanks to all for your input. I'll likely order within the month once I feel like I have the funds to do so responsibly.

 

[ALE7575]

This search for just one rep has been extremely eye opening for me. Thanks to all for your input. I'll likely order within the month once I feel like I have the funds to do so responsibly.

Don't buy before reading PAM GUIDE
"Reference PAM REVIEW-GUIDE" - Replica Search, Identification, Evaluation & Selection
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php?t=107365

When you have some choices, consult again if you want

Good luck
ALE

 

[rice923]

Thanks Ale. I've actually been in the process of reading that a little bit each day. There's tons of information in there. Definitely appreciate the time you spent on that article.