Pam 390 : Noob or Hfac?

[mrsullivan]

Hi everyone,

A little identification that needs to be cleared here : I got recently a 390 sold as an older Noob, but it was suggested that it actually may be more a H Fac.

I ran into that thread to try to clear it up, but most pics are outdated : https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...&share_fid=21762&share_type=t&link_source=app

As I can't sleep at night over that question (yes KOT1917 it's all because of you LOL), may you, ALE7575 and other Pam freaks chime in for a final opinion please?

A few pics here but I can post more if needed,

Thank you all

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[superspark69]

Pics of lugs, case profile etc will help aswell

 

[mrsullivan]

Here is more (I'm on a train, not the best place for steady pics lol), I can send pictures of the case only later if needed too.

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[KOT1917]

Hello, mrsullivan !

I am sorry for causing you these inconveniences.

Let me remind you that my thoughts were related to CG and CB, first of all, because the photos of the dial were not as unambiguous as here, the same is about the shape of the case.

CB has spaces typical of HF, between the digits of the serial number (BB):
Noob from my review (old, of course) :

Your:

HF (not 390, but 005, but I'm sure they should have similar specifics of engravings in about one year):

I was also confused by the CG, which does not look as sharp and sharp in terms of interior corners as the NOOB, which I was looking at and used to see:

Now, with new photos, looking at the dial, I would say that it looks more like an old noob, both in the convex lume with indents and in the hands (the HF lume looks darker and the stripe is narrower), also HF 390 which I saw, this is a lower horizontal A (may have been different).
Photos of yours in comparison with the HF photo of one of the participants, who left his comparison threads:
(To assess the lume, of course, different angles are needed, but the hands are obviously different).



But the photos from the profile, a little more understandable for me than in the previous thread, incline me to the idea that the midcase is a noob, because the chamfer at the base of the bezel is not as high as it seemed from other angles, and the pillow clearly thicker (due to less rounded corners):
HF - NOOB NEW - NOOB OLD:

I just left this information to explain my behavior and the reasons that forced me to express my thoughts in that thread.
Further, I think those to whom the thread was addressed will speak out, and will give the final concession conclusion.
In no way, I will not argue, with superspark69 , who competently answered my first questions when I joined the forum, and even more so ALE7575, who answered the last questions in this area for themselves several years earlier than I had the first ones. lol.

​​​​​​​In any case, no attempts to embarrass you, and discredit in your eyes the seller, whom I do not even know, just expressed what I saw.

 

[mrsullivan]

Hey KOT1917, my little "pointing at you" here was in a humourous sense. Raising questions to clear a model out is exactly what I like with passionate PAM enthusiasts like you on the forum. So it's no embarassment at all don't worry mate, it's all about a very good point you raised regarding this 390 and I thank you for it.

Digging in factories past and comparing clues from all of you experienced members is what makes this forum so fun, and reading you, ALE, Superspark and the few others is a learning lesson that brings light on the complex PAM rep game.

I can't wait to have the collective final opinion about this 390 (I guess until we have it, that'll be a new reason not to sleep LOL).

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[KOT1917]

No problem, I perfectly understand your position and intonation.
I just did not give a slightly more detailed explanation of my words earlier, therefore, I decided to express them here, and add what I understood from the new photos.

I'll just leave here the set of information that I was able to grasp for myself, and see what others have to say.
This is not the simplest model, and I myself am interested.

 

[ALE7575]

I have in my hands my PAM390 Hmaker (from Feb 2012) and my magnifying glass and I can say that mrsullivan's PAM390 is a twin of my PAM390 Hmaker. The CG even has the same ugly flaws. The hands, CP, lume application and inscriptions are the same.
There are only four things that don't fit
- The crystal has a much wider bezel like the old Noob
- I have never seen these 1860 fonts in caseback in any rep of PAM390
- The OP logo on the caseback has a defect that I have not seen on any 390 replica. It has misaligned the upper inner parts of the “O” an “P”
- The Production number N132/2000 has the font of "1" different from mine. The horizontal STROKE is curved while in my 390 is straight. Anyway, the shape matches the "1" of the 005 Hmaker caseback posted by KOT.

Let's look at the figures.

THE BEVELED OF THE CRYSTAL IS WIDER THAN Hmaker AND NEW NOOBS


THE CASEBACK OP LOGO HAS MISALIGNED THE UPPER INNER PARTS OF “O” AND “P”


THE 1860 FONTS ARE DIFFERENT FROM ANY REP I HAVE SEEN


THE “1” OF THE PRODUCTION NUMBER IS DIFFERENT. HAS THE HORIZONTAL STROKE CURVED INSTEAD OF STRAIGHT.

Some ideas about the origin of the caseback ?

ALE

 

[superspark69]

Franken watch of old noob and hfac I believe

 

[ALE7575]

Franken watch of old noob and hfac I believe

And what about the caseback ?

 

[mrsullivan]

Great inputs, PAM investigation at it's best thank you guys.
I read on the RG old thread from 2012 above that by the time a few owners did make hybrids, throwing their Hfac 390 dial+hands in Noob cases. It gives sense to ALE7575 feeling so far, and would confirm what KOT1917 suggested about an Hfac dial in the first place too.
The CG may also have been switched is it (don't know why if the Noob was better but who knows)?

The caseback remains a mystery then, interesting this version has not been seen in either factories, although engravement spacing closer to HFac's habits... Should I remove it to see it's inside?

Here is a couple of case only shots :

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[superspark69]

I’m going to say that someone has built it from spare parts, not sure on the case back or where it is from?

 

[superspark69]

By all means remove the CB we can see the engravings inside plus the movement

 

[superspark69]

Case back could be a cheap cartel version or DH gate? It’s a mystery

 

[mrsullivan]

Sorry guys, there's been a weird Tapatalk double post while superspark69 and I were writing simultaneously.

I'll do as you suggest and remove the CB for a check tomorrow indeed.

 

[Hazing]

I really love watching and reading the details you observe and way you observe them. It causes me to look at everything with a more critical eye. It’s amazing.

 

[granvino]

Besides the cascade of expert facts by ALE, I tend to agree with superspark pointing the watch as a parts mash up. By 2012, Noob had CG with perfect square inner cuts as I remember.

 

[mrsullivan]

The heart of the question : movement, CB and a bit of CG as well.

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[KOT1917]

Here is a movt. Of my latest HF.

In general, my doubts were primarily about the dial, but if ALE7575 has the same, then everything else is not so controversial.

This model has been produced for years, and the HF has not been the most consistent.
I think that all the differences from the "reference" HF PAM390 2012 can be attributed to discrepancies in the parties, even a case.

At the same time, I want to note that this is one of the most accurately reproduced models.
All factories that tried to do this have coped to one degree or another.
Distinguishing them from each other can be trickier than distinguishing them from gen, but that only goes to show that they are all good, and I don't think there is any real cause for concern.

Also, not so long ago, I saw a draft build 390 with a gen dial and hands, in which there were 2 more models from different factories, and the third of the parts was assembled. At the same time, there was no text description, where what is, just a photo.
To be honest, I still did not fully understand what is what in these photos.

But thanks for the good excuse to practice eyes.

Photos from right angles would still be interesting. 2 ends and 2 profiles.

And here's the flip side of the old HF backcase from PAM318:



And here is the flip side of the late HF backcase from the PAM005 N series:


As you can see, if the texture of Swiss made engraving is different, but this is not so noticeable, then by the character and quantity of the pearl, the difference is obvious, as well as the correspondence with the caseback of your watch.

 

[ALE7575]

Case back could be a cheap cartel version or DH gate? It’s a mystery

But leaving aside the 1860 fonts and the wrong OP logo, the rest of the caseback is good EVEN THE PIG (exactly the same PIG as my Hmaker), it doesn´t look like a cheap version.
Really weird

ALE

 

[mrsullivan]

All right, thank you all for the investigation, this is brilliant. This 390 feels great on the wrist, keeps amazing time and although I've never seen the gen IRL it's simply a gorgeous watch.
To ease the minds here my desire to find out the version is not about going back to my seller. We get along good and I went for his opinion too, he'll be interested in this.
This hunt for the factory is more like trying to reveal an orphan's parents identity, and it seems we have it. The last obscure part of the watch is the caseback, on which we can see typical Hfac details among some unknown others.

So, all in all and apart of the CB, many details point to an Hfac 390 model instead of an older 2013 Noob : dial specs, movement, CG... There is a possibility some parts may have been swaped, but can we be confident to state it's originally a H-Fac then?

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