PAM 312 vs PAM 111 Rep: Which is the best of the business?

[Marco2018]

I'm looking for a PAM in 44mm Luminor case. I'd like to have seconds at nine and a sandwich dial.

So I'm wandering if the best is PAM 111 or PAM 312. They also seem to be the most available between the TDs, respecting these specs.

I've read may threads and the incredible PAM guide, but I still have many doubts.

PAM 312
The latest model VSF seems to be the best one for what the TDs say in their site. But this version seems not to be reviewed in the PAM guide and also the PAM 312 is not reported as a SUPER REP.

Moreover I don't know if this P9000 clone movement is reliable or not.

I also wouldn't like false elements on the movement (e.g. a fixed escapement wheel) cause I repute this ridiculous.



PAM 111
It is reported as a Super rep in the guide but:

• There is an issue whit a false micro adjustment screw... falling and blocking the movement. I think it cannot be acceptable for a Super Rep;
• I still not understand if there's a real NOOB V4 or only improved V3 or anyway which is the best rep; Buying a PAM111 looks like a lottery because of the samples quality variability.

Your opinion would be appreciated.

 

[T3RM1N4T0R]

312 is cushion case

sent from Samsung s8 + via RWI app

 

[Marco2018]

Not a problem if Luminor or Luminor 1950.

 

[Bilko]

For me i think the 111 is superb, had a gen 111, went to a 312 then. 359 which i then sold to buy a highly modded rep 111 which ive had for about 5 years and its been perfect. The 312 case wears alot bigger for my wrist

 

[mysterio]

If you don't like false elements in the movement, then maybe a PAM isn't for you. The A6497 movement is one of the most used movements in manual wind PAMs, even in the super reps. But like you said, the movement has false elements like the micrometric screw and in addition, the swan neck. For the PAM312, the Panerai in-house movements like the P.9000 used in the PAM312 (as well as many other automatic PAMs, including those that use the P.9001) may be copied aesthetically and functionally, but may possibly won't be 100% replicated.

The PAM312 is not recognized as a super rep because of the movement. Even though the current movement aesthetically copies the P.9000 in-house movement by Panerai, with the most recent development being the balance wheel located @7, there are still tells on the movement that can readily be seen through the display caseback. For the PAM111, it has been a super rep from V2. Each version just improves on that. The micrometric screw issue has been reported, yes, but how many have had perfectly intact ones? Considering the popularity of the PAM111, there could be thousands of them out there. We will not judge replication on assembly issues like that, unless it affects the majority of production units, which the screw issue does not.

It is all about what you are willing to accept in terms of what is possible now with reps. If you can't get over some faux parts then I'm afraid most if not all PAMs would be unacceptable in your view.

 

[Rabbagasten]

Go gen. Reps will never be good enough for you


Sent from my iPhone using RWI

 

[Marco2018]

Thank You Guys.

Just to clarify. I don't like false elements that are in movement in the real mechanism and are motionless in the rep.

I can accept the false swan neck. I cannot accept a motionless escapement wheel that as far as I know is present in some P9000 copies.

Thank You again.

 

[mysterio]

Then I would revise my recommendation and advise you to stick to manual wind PAMs using the A6497 movement. Because the clone of the P.3000 in-house manual movement has false gears.

 

[Marco2018]

Then I would revise my recommendation and advise you to stick to manual wind PAMs using the A6497 movement. Because the clone of the P.3000 in-house manual movement has false gears.

Thank You, Ale.


My last question (if you can) is about PAM111 V3/V4 versions. Do the V4 improvements impacts only the movement look or they impact also the case?

In other threads I've noticed guys posting QC pics asking if the watch is a real V4 or not... and it's a little bit confusing.

 

[mysterio]

Thank You, Ale.


My last question (if you can) is about PAM111 V3/V4 versions. Do the V4 improvements impacts only the movement look or they impact also the case?

In other threads I've noticed guys posting QC pics asking if the watch is a real V4 or not... and it's a little bit confusing.

Well I see you are a very astute observer, calling me ALE. :lmao:

You say you've seen the V3/V4 QC pic threads but asking if only the movement is affected by V4, so it means you really didn't read the posts. If you did you would have seen that the following are mentioned : Case, Crown, Crystal and Movement. So last question answered.

 

[Marco2018]

Well I see you are a very astute observer, calling me ALE. :lmao:

Shame on me! Please forgive me.

You say you've seen the V3/V4 QC pic threads but asking if only the movement is affected by V4, so it means you really didn't read the posts. If you did you would have seen that the following are mentioned : Case, Crown, Crystal and Movement. So last question answered.

I've read the thread but the attention to the case pics in different positions lead me thinking there could be a V4 case.

Have a nice day, boss.

 

[mysterio]

I've read the thread but the attention to the case pics in different positions lead me thinking there could be a V4 case.

Have a nice day, boss.

Yes, but if you see the replies from ALE, who does the judging for the versions, he states for key points : 1) Case 2) Crown 3) Crystal and 4) Movement. The reason for the various poses for the watch is to determine these 4 features if they are V4 on an individual basis. So some might have a V4 crystal and movement but a V3 case and crown.