Pam 111 V4 -> ReplacentCrystal Question

[dmpsurf]

Hi all,

I´m since 2012 in the Rep-Game. I was always hunting the perfect 177 or 111, already had a Marlin 177 and bought finally in June my first Gen 111 (used, see first pics). On my Forum back home I was told that there might be Rep-Parts build in so I checked a Pam-Store , and I was told that this 111 does not exisit :-/

Ok- got the money back, all fine, ordered an 111 V4, gave it to Domi for movement service and I´m quite ok with it - beside the crystal.

Here the question: Can you tell me a source for good or OEM Panerai crystal? I was really searchin a while.

Here are some pics, the first 2 are gen, den second 2 are the V4 111, and the link for a crystal at EWP

gen

gen -> see the crystal clearity

Rep

Rep

and after movement service

here the link for a crystal - is it good?

https://ewatchparts.com/pam-sapphire...4mm-n-d-1.html



Thank you!!!

Daniel

 

[lmmo]

Not sure about what you don't like in the rep crystal, as it looks quite nice.

Nevertheless, that 100$ crystal is most likely not better than the one on your rep.

 

[dmpsurf]

Thanks, That's why I'm asking... Maybe I want too much

 

[er_marmitta]

HI,
well in the first pics, that you claims a as gen, is in my opinion a noob with a y incabloc. If you look at the swan neck you will see the difference with the gen.
The last pics (if i understand corectly is your actual watch) show a very bad movement with printed officine panerai instead of engraving. If i where you the AR will be my last problem. Try to fix before the movement and than think to the AR
By!

 

[dmpsurf]

The first Two pics were my (so called) Gen 111. I paid a lot of Euros for it, I don't want to Post the certificate of buying here- Please believe me. I returned that one to the seller.

the Second: the movement was serviced by Domi, and yes- the Bridges are printed, because the "Real ones" looked like that

so Domi built in the printed while service- it Looks better but not perfect. I know

but come on: beside the "Prints" take a Look...

 

[marlin2284]

I hate to break the bad news to you, but the first 111 does not look gen.

And on the second the incabloc is off center.

 

[dmpsurf]

I hate to break the bad news to you, but the first 111 does not look gen.

And on the second the incabloc is off center.

I know. That's why I returned it... As written. Now I have the V4 for 1/10 of the money. If someone has good Bridges for me, Please PM. Thanks

 

[ALE7575]

Of course, first watch is also a Noob rep

ALE

 

[dmpsurf]

Of course, first watch is also a Noob rep

ALE

-> the back case was told is rep. Most of it was GEN

but that is not the topic, the watch is given back!

 

[ALE7575]

-> the back case was told is rep. Most of it was GEN

but that is not the topic, the watch is given back!

As you said this is not the topic, but the watch is a rep

ALE

 

[kilowattore]

Glad the seller took that rep back and you could recoup your money.
And congrats on your new v4, keep scouting the m2m section as rep movements come up for sale every now and then. Or you can buy a used noob v3 full watch and swap the engraved bridge.

 

[dmpsurf]

Thank you, yes -that was frightening, that a serious "Second-Hand-Dealer" does not realizse selling -at least parts of a- Rep. Me neither...

well, that Crystal is ok but has still "Rep-Ambition", the watch costs 260€ + full service Domi with pressure testing for swimming. So I spend some Money on the watch..., but by far not €€€€€. Still want to improve the watch- Please your opinions ....

 

[kilowattore]

I don't really see the need to because the watch looks great already and you should enjoy it for what it is, but if you really wish to further improve it:
CG pin should be a hair sunken into the CG
CG edges and lever edges should be polished using a jeweler's stick
Crown's teeth should be polished
Y incabloc should be rotated as pointed by Marlin
Gear train bridge should be swapped to one with proper engravings
All edges of all bridges should be better polished
Same for the winding gears and swan neck device
Jewels should be tinted in darker red or swapped to swiss jewels
A gen crystal would finally improve the look further (but sourcing it is another story)

Imho, and I'm surely missing something

 

[chand1014]

I was in the same boat. Had a Noob V4 111 but couldnt help but notice the cloudy crystal every time I look at the watch as I was used to seeing my other gen watches. Ordered a DSN crystal and waited for that sucker over a month and was disappointed as the quality wasn't still there. Others may be fine with it but I couldnt live with it so it got sold.
I ordered a h fact Pam005 and it should be here tomorrow. I will let you know how the crystal is compared to Noob's. I had KW Pams (312/388) and they had slightly better crystals than Noob's IMO as they had colorless AR.

 

[Knifemaker]

I know what you mean. The less than ultra clear Rep Crystals are a real pet peeve of mine.
Truly bothers me. I have a Gen 24 on the dresser, along with several Reps. (Noob and V6), and the Gen looked deep and dark, even from across the room. A HUGE Tell, and really does hurt the overall look of the pieces.

Thought about ordering a DSN, but then again, this is not the first time I have heard that they are "Not" what they once were. :sad:

Oddly, I have a 386 V6 with a brown dial, and the crystal really pop's! Figures, as that crystal on a black dial would be fantastic!!! Grrrrrrrr!!!

The problem with the Rep crystals is NOT the AR. It is simply a lesser quality crystal. No AR can completely compensate for low quality Synthetic Sapphire.

A high quality x2 AR will help greatly, but then you have the scratching problem with the AR layer on the outside of the crystal. Kinda kills the whole reason to have Sapphire in the first place! :angrier:

Now can anyone explain to me just why a Gen Rolie crystal is substantially "LESS" than a much simpler PAM Crystal? Much less so much more available? Grrrrrr X-2!!!

Knife

 

[dmpsurf]

Thanks guys! That's what I mean!!!

e.g. the Pam 356 has an amazing Crystal, my Marlin 177 was perfect (sold here), but I couldn't stand the Rep-Crystal anymore. The V4 is better, but still hurting my eyes in some angle when looking on it.

any xperiences with WSO/EWP Crystal? See my first post

 

[Knifemaker]

Sadly, no I don't have experience with them, but have been looking at their site. Really can't tell much in the pictures there though.

I wonder just why, the 386 crystal is so good, while so many others are so bad?

The 571 I have, (V-6) is very good, but it is still different than the 24 Gen when side by side.

The brown dial of the 386 makes a side by side comparison, impossible, but it is very-very clear. If typical Rep crystals were this good, I would not have room for complaint!

I was told by the m2m seller that it was a ZF piece, however, it doesn't have the typical ZF tells. The Lume is outstanding. Particularly for a vintage type lume. Not what I usually see for ZF at all! My guess would be it's V-6.

Knife

 

[chand1014]

I remember reading a thread from a member who both had a kw312 and a zf312 and said the zf has a clearer crystal.

 

[chand1014]

Received a hfact Pam005 today and I am totally blown away by its quality. The crystal is amazing. Best I have seen on a rep. Period. And totally digging the sausage dial. Cant believe i got this for $158.
I'd take this over noob 111 any day of the week. This is the 4th Pam (n111, kw312 & kw388) and definitely the best of all. It is a keeper for sure. Wanted to upload some photos but my iphone can't focus

 

[lmmo]

Received a hfact Pam005 today and I am totally blown away by its quality. The crystal is amazing. Best I have seen on a rep. Period. And totally digging the sausage dial. Cant believe i got this for $158.
I'd take this over noob 111 any day of the week. This is the 4th Pam (n111, kw312 & kw388) and definitely the best of all. It is a keeper for sure. Wanted to upload some photos but my iphone can't focus

Without photos is just a myth... :laugh: