Noob questions re: PAMs (253, 113) Advice/Info sought...

[b_hack]

Hi everyone...

So I am really looking at these two PAMs and was hoping to seek your collective advice re: purchase. I have tried to "take it all in" but I still have many questions and want to make sure I find the best rep watches and understand their limitations at the same time...

253 - The first PAM that caught my eye.

From my understanding - this is the 3rd generation rep of this model??? I do understand there are a few flaws in the rep - font is off, the color of the blue second hand is not quite right compared to gen. One dealer (Josh from PC)seems to have one from the photos that might have the proper color on the second hand.... A few questions:

1) Are there different versions of this rep or are they all the same?
2) If there are different versions - any suggestions re: which one to purchase?

At the moment the idea of having the rep modded is not appealing but that may change as the sickness deepens LOL!

113 - Another great PAM...

I think there are several versions of this rep. DSN is reputed to have one of the better versions. Is there another rep I should be looking at? I've noticed quite a bit of variability on the back side of the watch which I assume is due to different mechanisms (E type, H type, F type). The last version of this PAM was an F series with the word "Panerai" stamped in the visible mechanism many times...

1) Do all of the good reps represent a "bona-fide" version/series of the gen watch with respect to series (e.g. F, E, H) - in other words the visible movement on the back of the watch?
2) Is there one I should be looking for?
3) What is a swan neck dagger?
4) Is the DSN rep the "best" or are there other comparable ones?

Final general question:
1) Does DSN manufacture his own rep or does he take a rep and modify it?

Thanks for all of your help!

B

 

[hooligan]

Wow! That's a lot of questions for your first post! :wink:

I will put my answers in-line below:

Hi everyone...

So I am really looking at these two PAMs and was hoping to seek your collective advice re: purchase. I have tried to "take it all in" but I still have many questions and want to make sure I find the best rep watches and understand their limitations at the same time...

253 - The first PAM that caught my eye.

From my understanding - this is the 3rd generation rep of this model??? I do understand there are a few flaws in the rep - font is off, the color of the blue second hand is not quite right compared to gen. One dealer (Josh from PC)seems to have one from the photos that might have the proper color on the second hand.... A few questions:

1) Are there different versions of this rep or are they all the same? Yes, there are several versions of this watch.
2) If there are different versions - any suggestions re: which one to purchase? Buy the third/most recent version. Don't be fooled by some of the pics on Josh's site, this 3rd version has the same issues with color that the others have had, I believe. It's most likely just the lighting in the photo that makes it appear different in some pictures.

At the moment the idea of having the rep modded is not appealing but that may change as the sickness deepens LOL!

113 - Another great PAM...

I think there are several versions of this rep. DSN is reputed to have one of the better versions. Is there another rep I should be looking at? I've noticed quite a bit of variability on the back side of the watch which I assume is due to different mechanisms (E type, H type, F type). The last version of this PAM was an F series with the word "Panerai" stamped in the visible mechanism many times...

1) Do all of the good reps represent a "bona-fide" version/series of the gen watch with respect to series (e.g. F, E, H) - in other words the visible movement on the back of the watch? No, I certainly wouldn't make that assumption. One of the most frustrating things with Panerai reps is that there are only a small handful of different case backs that the manufacturers bothered to make. The 113 most likely has a case back that rightfully belongs on a 111. That's life, we have to deal with it. The most important thing, IMO, is to make sure that the series matches up to the movement decoration.
2) Is there one I should be looking for? That would all depend on your budget and what factors are important to you. DSN's current 113 dial has the cardinal numbers (12, 3 and 6) that are too thin/not bold enough. The lume on that dial should be better than any of the standard rep dials, though, and the 113/114 dial, with the tiny lume dots, is VERY difficult to have relumed.
3) What is a swan neck dagger? A very frequently asked question. The dagger regulator and swan neck adjuster is an important visual property of the movement. In the picture below, the dagger regulator is the small dagger-shaped (duh) piece of metal that is attached to the anti-shock system of the movement that is directly above and attached to the mainspring and balance wheel (the gold colored wheel at the 12 o'clock position). The "swan neck" is the curved piece of metal that goes around the dagger, it provides pressure against one side of the regulator and allows for a finer level of adjustment to the movement regulation.

4) Is the DSN rep the "best" or are there other comparable ones? That depends on what are the most important details for you and what your price range is.

Final general question:
1) Does DSN manufacture his own rep or does he take a rep and modify it? I don't know if he himself manufactures the parts, but a lot of his watches use cases/dials that are different from the "standard" reps. In a lot of cases, he offers watches that aren't available from ANY other rep maker/dealer.

Thanks for all of your help!

B

 

[b_hack]

Thank you!!! I apologize for the list of questions!

I do have 2 more:

1) Is there a good website that has picture of all of the gen versions of each PAM with enough detail to scrutinize the back/front so as to compare to the reps?

2) I have found 3 forums online (this one, RG, RWG) - are there other websites/forums I have missed that may provide additional information? I like to do my homework!

Thanks again.

 

[hooligan]

Nope, those 3 rep forums are pretty much the cream of the crop.

Hmmm, online photos? You can try this, but there are usually very few pics of the backs of the watches.

http://www.paneristi.com/reference/vend ... meset.html

Other than that, I would just do searches on the gen forums like Paneristi.com, TimeZone.com, etc., for gen pics.


Good luck!

 

[nielsen]

Be very careful, my friend. When I started here one year ago I didn't know there was such a thing as a Panerai. Now I have 3, all from DSN. It's a terrible disease, and contagious over the Internet. Be warned!

 

[dvburns]

This is also a good reference site for Pams. http://www.blowers-jewellers.co.uk/panerai.htm