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Need help to determine whether it is Gen or Franken or Reps

F

Fnsraal

Getting To Know The Place
9/12/16
35
0
0
Hi all,

Few months ago I bought PAM 312 from VSF and since then I got a better paying job so now I want to get the Gen PAM 312. Sadly it has been discontinued and the new 1312 doesn’t suit my taste.
So I look for the used gen PAM 312 and found this O series at reasonable price. When I contacted Panerai AD however, they told me that Richemont is no longer providing service to authenticate Panerai so now I left in limbo.

https://imgur.com/a/5FffI

I really need help whether this watch is really 100% genuine or partly franken or reps..The watch come with paper and box but still there is a possibility that the seller has changed some parts of the watch.
Thank you all for your help :)


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tripdog

tripdog

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I know nothing about these watches, but comparing it to this one, esp' the 7th pic down which is taken from an almost identical angle, I would say no, it's not gen:

https://www.jaztime.com/panerai-pam...lack-1950-s-case-44mm-stainless-steel-leather

The engraving on the crown guard is not the same, not as crisp, not as clean, not as deep. The sticky outy thingy at the top of the crown guard is also not the same shape. Crown on yours looks badly made too. The one in your pic is also filthy dirty, never a good sign as it means the owner doesn't care about it.

But I may be wrong, as I know nothing about these . . . I'm sure an Expert will be along soon who'll be able to help more.
 
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mysterio

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19/8/08
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THe PAM312 quality of replication has been very good even before the A7750 with decorative P.9000 plates batch came out, so it would be difficult to ascertain with limited pictures (buying a gen with only 4 pictures for reference is ill-advised). The problem with tripdog's link is that it is for an L-series and your watch is an O-series. At first glance one might think "wait the gen has a polished caseback, the other one is brushed so it must be a rep." but that would be an incorrect conclusion as the caseback changed from polished to brushed from the M-series onwards. Similar changes, although minuscule in comparison with regards to the crown engraving and lever tip can also happen from series to series. The appearance of the crown might be related to the overall look of the watch, which is not kept very well, so that might explain the rough look of the crown.

What is certain, however, is that the latest P.9000 movement in the rep PAM312, although now at clone level with the balance wheel @9, still does not have the gen functions. Although there had been a P.9000 rep movement with gen function, the balance wheel was obviously wrong @9. So this is one way to verify the authenticity of the PAM312. I would suggest, aside from asking for more pictures of the watch (straight on shots of the movement for example, with the rotor at different positions, exposing the details of the movement), please ask for a 360 video of the watch which includes demonstrating that the gen function is working perfectly, like the hacking of the movement (where the seconds hand stops when the crown is fully pulled out) as well as the independent hour hand adjustment, with the date changing forward and back with the hour hand passing 12 midnight.
 
tripdog

tripdog

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mysterio said:
THe PAM312 quality of replication has been very good even before the A7750 with decorative P.9000 plates batch came out, so it would be difficult to ascertain with limited pictures (buying a gen with only 4 pictures for reference is ill-advised). The problem with tripdog's link is that it is for an L-series and your watch is an O-series. At first glance one might think "wait the gen has a polished caseback, the other one is brushed so it must be a rep." but that would be an incorrect conclusion as the caseback changed from polished to brushed from the M-series onwards. Similar changes, although minuscule in comparison with regards to the crown engraving and lever tip can also happen from series to series. The appearance of the crown might be related to the overall look of the watch, which is not kept very well, so that might explain the rough look of the crown.

What is certain, however, is that the latest P.9000 movement in the rep PAM312, although now at clone level with the balance wheel @9, still does not have the gen functions. Although there had been a P.9000 rep movement with gen function, the balance wheel was obviously wrong @9. So this is one way to verify the authenticity of the PAM312. I would suggest, aside from asking for more pictures of the watch (straight on shots of the movement for example, with the rotor at different positions, exposing the details of the movement), please ask for a 360 video of the watch which includes demonstrating that the gen function is working perfectly, like the hacking of the movement (where the seconds hand stops when the crown is fully pulled out) as well as the independent hour hand adjustment, with the date changing forward and back with the hour hand passing 12 midnight.
Click to expand...

Expert = knows his shit.
 
F

Fnsraal

Getting To Know The Place
9/12/16
35
0
0
@mysterio and @tripdog thank you so much for the input! I have decided that since this is going to be my first gen panerai I will buy from Panerai AD albeit at higher price. Then hopefully the experience of handling gen panerai will give me more knowledge in the future :)


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