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My experience buying Reps in China

Davidaintgrizz

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I’ve seen some curiosity here and there about what it’s like buying reps in China. Is it much easier? Is it much cheaper? Are there better reps out there?
I’ve spent close to 7 years in China now and bought multiple reps locally and from the TD list and I can tell you; yes, no and no.

Is it easier?
Actually, that depends on how you look at it. In terms of availability, reps are insanely widespread. You can just about find a dealer on any platform you look for, able to source watches from every factory. However, in terms of qualifying purchases, the service is so widespread that there is almost no degree of accountability.
QC is not a thing locally, you receive the watch shipped directly from the factory. The local equivalent is “support for payment upon delivery”, where for a premium you can choose to pay after the product has been delivered. This isn’t as convenient as it sounds because with a delivery guy standing in your doorway you have to quickly unbox the watch without damaging any packing and with said delivery man breathing down your neck, determine if you want to keep the watch or reject it.
Dealers are mostly completely interchangeable, offering little to no difference in price and the same absence of any expertise. They understand basic lingo, but you’re responsible for assuring they find the product that you want.

Is it cheaper?
There are a lot of fees associated with the purchase of a rep outside of China, you generally save between 20-50USD buying locally, that’s basically the difference on international shipping. Besides that, sometimes dealers are willing to shave off a few % to speed up a sale, but it’s usually made back up with you elect to “pay on delivery” which sets you back about 10 USD.
However, as I mentioned above, you get absolutely no service, QC or warranty of any sort.
This is only true of watches, any replacement parts such as straps, replacement parts or other types of merchandise cost about an average of half as much as far as I’ve seen.

Are there better reps here?
Simply put, no. Everything that is available here in China I have also seen sold abroad. Conversely, due to the general interchangeability of dealers, the absence of QC and the total lack of accountability, the reps sourced locally aren’t necessarily as good as the ones sold abroad.

Nowadays, having experimented with a bit of everything, I choose to buy all my reps from the TDs, it’s slower for sure, and sometimes more expensive than from local dealers, but the peace of mind from the better purchasing process is so much greater!
There is one huge perk though, between QC and delivery it's usually 2 days and there is absolutely no concern of seizure of your package!

If anyone has any other questions related to buying reps in China, shoot away!
 

p0pperini

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Welcome to RWI Davidaintgrizz. Although clearly you're not a newcomer to the rep hobby.

Thank you for this detailed but concise summary. As you mention, these questions pop up from time to time (usually due to a mixture of FOMO and "the grass is always greener" syndrome) and it's always good to have first hand experience to cite when answering them. Taking the trouble to share your experience is much appreciated.
 
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Davidaintgrizz

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Welcome to RWI Davidaintgrizz. Although clearly you're not a newcomer to the rep hobby.

Thank you for this detailed but concise summary. As you mention, these questions pop up from time to time (usually due to a mixture of FOMO and "the grass is always greener" syndrome) and it's always good to have first hand experience to cite when answering them. Taking the trouble to share your experience is much appreciated.

Thank you!

Not at all it's a pleasure to share!
 

P..DR..D

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Thanks for posting OP,

Supplying the QC is definitely a great plus that the TDs offer, but I thought that the margins were alot bigger than $20-$50 per watch. I recall seeing margins of 20-50% mentioned before, sometimes even more.

To be able to offer the first seizure replace/refund etc, and to run a profitable viable business, it would likely have to be more than $20-$50 per watch.

Would be great to get some other members, on the ground in China, commenting too, to establish once and for all, but I suspect we will never know.
 

boostin20

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Thanks for posting OP,

Supplying the QC is definitely a great plus that the TDs offer, but I thought that the margins were alot bigger than $20-$50 per watch. I recall seeing margins of 20-50% mentioned before, sometimes even more.

To be able to offer the first seizure replace/refund etc, and to run a profitable viable business, it would likely have to be more than $20-$50 per watch.

Would be great to get some other members, on the ground in China, commenting too, to establish once and for all, but I suspect we will never know.

I thought the OP was saying that purchasing from a local rep store/dealer was 20-50 less than a TD, not necessarily the entire profit margin of either of those dealers. Is that correct Davidaintgrizz ?
 
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P..DR..D

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I thought the OP was saying that purchasing from a local rep store/dealer was 20-50 less than a TD, not necessarily the entire profit margin of either of those dealers. Is that correct Davidaintgrizz ?

That's a good point & makes more sense :huh1:

I just recall reading a few times about members estimating 50-100% (sometimes more) TD profit margins, and thought when I read the OPs post of an 'on the ground local deal' that it would reflect these figures, instead of a $20-$50 variance.

The likelihood is that all the Dealers (local, TD & Non-TD) are making decent margins, otherwise not worth their while to risk it.
 

JayBee0815

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The likelihood is that all the Dealers (local, TD & Non-TD) are making decent margins, otherwise not worth their while to risk it.

This is a very contentious debate ;-)

If you look at the prices of Chinese dealers on WeChat etc., there are differences between 20 and over 150 dollars ... it obviously depends a lot on the model. And then there are the extremely high shipping costs, which is actually also just a hidden price increase, at least for my country, after the new VAT regulation. But what's the use of complaining? We have cartel-like structures here and no real competition. But that's why they are TDs with all the advantages of ordering from a TD. But I also have to admit that I have ordered some models from a non-TD in the last year, because the TDs really overdo it with their "premiums" on some models.
 

P..DR..D

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But I also have to admit that I have ordered some models from a non-TD in the last year, because the TDs really overdo it with their "premiums" on some models.

I joke of course :p

I'm chuffed there is a TD listing in the first place & the associated protections.

Are these protections worth the premium is the key question.

To me - yes (up to a point)
To others, thats their choice to make :eek:hwell:
 
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dogwood

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Is it cheaper?
This is only true of watches, any replacement parts such as straps, replacement parts…

If anyone has any other questions related to buying reps in China, shoot away!

you mentioned “replacement parts”… as a hobby watch smith I’ve occasionally needed replacement parts for a movement in one of my reps. For example recently I needed a new pallet fork for a VR3235 movement. I wasn’t able to buy this tiny part from any TD. I tried buying a Clark’s part but it wasn’t quite the right fit. I ended up buying a full second movement just so I could cannibalise it for parts.

Question: is it possible to buy spare parts for rep movements in China?
 

andybilsy

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Are we in not a difficult place to be judging at this moment in time, Im a green horn here but I’ve takin a little time to research before I dare pass any comments, in fear of being shot Down.
unfortunately I cannot disclose my total life experiences in order not to incriminate oneself but this also must apply to our TD’s.
in fact I would like to lay claim that a long time ago I learned the art of copying’ “ rather blunt terminology here but fact “
so I welcome any new challenges a long this path. And if any one of us dares to stand up and be counted
​Then expect Giorgio Armani will rise from his grave and sue your sweet little arses . No offence to my American Italiano friends
 

Art Tic

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A plus of shopping in China in person is I got to see so many reps. Literally an eye-opener. However, there were a lot of dhgate quality reps. Also, I could only buy so many because I was afraid of bringing too much red bills.
 

jsrrano

Getting To Know The Place
11/9/18
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FWIW, I paid $380 for my VSF sub before shipping from a non-TD, and that was too much. You get QC, but of course no insurance or guarantee. Of the dealers I've talked to on weidian, wechat, and whatsapp, $370 or so is the cheapest I've found. If anybody has other sources, please DM me.
A guy I talked to in China said he paid under $250 for his pre-raid VSF buying locally, that Weidian sellers were crazy expensive. I have no idea if that's true, but I can't rule it out.
 

Davidaintgrizz

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Awesome first post!




Thank you!




That's a good point & makes more sense :huh1:




I just recall reading a few times about members estimating 50-100% (sometimes more) TD profit margins, and thought when I read the OPs post of an 'on the ground local deal' that it would reflect these figures, instead of a $20-$50 variance.




The likelihood is that all the Dealers (local, TD & Non-TD) are making decent margins, otherwise not worth their while to risk it.




Yes exactly, boostin20 is right about my meaning.

I believe there is some level of price control happening, perhaps at the factory level. In my experience, anything hot selling below that variance has had some kind of issue.




This is a very contentious debate ;-)




If you look at the prices of Chinese dealers on WeChat etc., there are differences between 20 and over 150 dollars ... it obviously depends a lot on the model. And then there are the extremely high shipping costs, which is actually also just a hidden price increase, at least for my country, after the new VAT regulation. But what's the use of complaining? We have cartel-like structures here and no real competition. But that's why they are TDs with all the advantages of ordering from a TD. But I also have to admit that I have ordered some models from a non-TD in the last year, because the TDs really overdo it with their "premiums" on some models.




As long as you trust your dealers and are happy with the service, I think you’re doing the right thing. It’s healthy to get new TDs in and give them a chance. Besides potentially discounted prices you might also get better service. Some of the TDs we have now are so busy they seldom answer their messages…




you mentioned “replacement parts”… as a hobby watch smith I’ve occasionally needed replacement parts for a movement in one of my reps. For example recently I needed a new pallet fork for a VR3235 movement. I wasn’t able to buy this tiny part from any TD. I tried buying a Clark’s part but it wasn’t quite the right fit. I ended up buying a full second movement just so I could cannibalise it for parts.




Question: is it possible to buy spare parts for rep movements in China?

Yes absolutely, I find it tricky searching for specific components due to the watch making lingo being quite complex in Chinese but I’ve had success just putting the name of the movement such as “3135” and scrolling through components. So far I have found everything for my watches, from case screws to blue balance wheels springs! And all fairly cheap.




Super first post Davidaintgrizz . A big welcome to RWI.




Thank you! I feel as though I’ve been a member for years. I don’t know what took me so long to register and come out of the shadows.




A plus of shopping in China in person is I got to see so many reps. Literally an eye-opener. However, there were a lot of dhgate quality reps. Also, I could only buy so many because I was afraid of bringing too much red bills.




This always used to be a lot of fun! Sadly since the pandemic most of these offline sellers have gone extinct and taken to WeChat.




FWIW, I paid $380 for my VSF sub before shipping from a non-TD, and that was too much. You get QC, but of course no insurance or guarantee. Of the dealers I've talked to on weidian, wechat, and whatsapp, $370 or so is the cheapest I've found. If anybody has other sources, please DM me.

A guy I talked to in China said he paid under $250 for his pre-raid VSF buying locally, that Weidian sellers were crazy expensive. I have no idea if that's true, but I can't rule it out.




That’s interesting, but I’ve never seen a top-end rep going for so much under the “SRP” (if we can call it that). It’s entirely possible of course, the probability is that there is margin for it - but it would have had to be a strictly under the table deal. My impression is that the dealers have a kind of code of conduct and generally respect said “suggested retail price”. Even here.
 

TheChachi

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I love this post. It certainly gives us collectors from other countries a "boots on the ground" perspective. I would love to make it over there one day to just shop around and check things out. Are the reps on display in shops that have the factory stickers on the so you can see whether they are from Noob, Clean, ARF, etc...,? I would imagine the shop owners have a pretty tight-knit relationship with online TD's? I would love to hear any other stories or things you have experienced while you have been over there regarding reps. I find it a fascinating world for sure. To me, I just see a bunch of tiny shops with TONS of reps that you could go and pick out and try on. Thanks for sharing!
 

jsrrano

Getting To Know The Place
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it would have had to be a strictly under the table deal
Thank you for your insight! That's great to know there is a SRP. Would you happen to know what a VSF Sub or DJ41 would go for locally?
I've really hit a brick wall trying to find it for under Weidian prices.
 

Lonelyarrow

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I love this post. It certainly gives us collectors from other countries a "boots on the ground" perspective. I would love to make it over there one day to just shop around and check things out. Are the reps on display in shops that have the factory stickers on the so you can see whether they are from Noob, Clean, ARF, etc...,? I would imagine the shop owners have a pretty tight-knit relationship with online TD's? I would love to hear any other stories or things you have experienced while you have been over there regarding reps. I find it a fascinating world for sure. To me, I just see a bunch of tiny shops with TONS of reps that you could go and pick out and try on. Thanks for sharing!

In terms of shops, they don’t really exist anymore. Though most if not all of the reps comes from China, government is quite frankly being very strict on those reps and factories domestically. All of the rep business is now online, via WeChat.
As a local, instead of trying to source reps, I recommend building relationship with a good dealer. (Sounds like rolex ad lol). I always deal with the same guy who has been doing rep for over a decade. He sources me hard-to-find models, and check quality of each watch by himself before sending out. He do movement swap and modding, providing a one year warranty, and even with a watchsmith available for any repair need.
Is it cheaper to buy reps in China? Yes
But with thousands of dealers online you really need to find someone who’s serious about their business.


Sent from the RWI App
 

TheChachi

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In terms of shops, they don’t really exist anymore. Though most if not all of the reps comes from China, government is quite frankly being very strict on those reps and factories domestically. All of the rep business is now online, via WeChat.
As a local, instead of trying to source reps, I recommend building relationship with a good dealer. (Sounds like rolex ad lol). I always deal with the same guy who has been doing rep for over a decade. He sources me hard-to-find models, and check quality of each watch by himself before sending out. He do movement swap and modding, providing a one year warranty, and even with a watchsmith available for any repair need.
Is it cheaper to buy reps in China? Yes
But with thousands of dealers online you really need to find someone who’s serious about their business.


Sent from the RWI App

I appreciate the insight. It is kind of a bummer knowing that the stores are not as prevalent as it once was. I can only imagine that by going online marketplace reduces the issues versus selling in store. For me, I would have loved going in and trying our each and comparing the quality between factories. It's good to hear that you have a reputable dealer in country that is able to get you some cool stuff that not everyone has access to. Also, having that resource so close to home and getting your watch faster to those of us that are 9000 miles away is awesome. Welcome to the forum!