MKS Seamaster SM300 Spectre - Asian 2824 (disguised as Omega 8400) Regulator?

[KalKala]

Hi Guys,
I hope to get some help about this movement: I was trying to make some small adjustment since the watch is going a little too fast gaining > 30" / day but I was not able to discern the usual levers on the Balance. The only one I saw was what looked like the Regulator / or perhaps the Stud as I do not know if the actual 8400 uses the same system on some Rolex to adjust the weights on the balance wheel instead of a Regulator pin (no need to adjust the stud since the Bit Error is almost always at 0ms!).

I tried to push it counterclockwise a little, but it did not move, so using the tweezers I made a little more force and the piece just popped off: on close inspection I see some glue traces so I suspect this is a fake Stud and possibly even the Bridge is not real but before removing it and check if the real regulator is connected to the balance below it, or if I can just glue this piece back (it doesn't seem to stay in place just by friction...) I really need some advise from the experts.
TIA
Cheers

PS I love the watch in spite of having the incredible Thirty-Nine (39) Jewets!

 

[Specter1000]

sometimes on the ETA clone movements a fake balance bridge will be added. If your watch is still working, I suspect you only removed the fake portion. I wouldn't even mess with replacing it, purely cosmetic.

 

[KalKala]

Well yes, the watch is still working well, so probably that piece was not a real regulator or the balance would have gone wild without it.

This bridge also has an incablock jewel that supposedly hold the balance shaft but, I'm not sure about it. I still need to find the real regulator pin to delay a bit the movement...

 

[KalKala]

Now I really got into big troubles: I discovered that the jewel on the fake balance bridge was also a fake one, just glued on.
The I decided I will just remove that fake bridge to access the regulator pins I can barely see below it: this bridge shows two screws that I wasn't able to remove so I also suspects these two are also fake ones. In fact they are in brass tinted as if in black steel so I did my worst and apparently scratched them badly.
It seems all the f++++ing branded Omega bridge is just a fake one with many fake screws and fake jewels and the real movement is below this deck: I cannot figure out what are the real screws I should try to remove to get access to the regulator or even to the screw to remove the crown's stem I see moving when I pull the crown out...
Is there anyone who has disassembled this MKS decorated movement and can point me to the right direction please?
I'm stuck on this that started as a simple enough operation to regulate the watch made so complicated by my ignorance of these fake traps!

 

[Specter1000]

can you post a really good picture...I'm sure we can help you out with this...

 

[KalKala]

I'm going to write here some notes that may be helpful to others that need information on this watch. If you know something better I invite you to add to this thread and any correction to my observations or procedures is most welcomed.

First of all I have to say I was not at all aware of any difference between the terms < cloned > vs < decorated >, or rather I was supposing the cloned was more or less a faithful copy of the original movement, sometimes with a few ingenuous improvements and modification and other times with very bad economic ones; a decorated movement for me was just the adding of some stuck on thin laser made branded plate on the rotor, or some etched writings often completely wrong around the caliber... With this watch I learned to which extremes a decorated movement can go.
Don't get me wrong: it looks very nice, although I have doubts it is completely faithful to the original. What puzzles me is that a lot of efforts has been made to create this cover by gluing all those brass screws' heads after plating them to look like platinum, and all those jewels too.
The other plus side is that the watch after all is working by the A2824 that can be maintained without much trouble.

But for me there are some issues to be able to access the movement i.e. to regulate the balance without having to disassemble the whole watch!

• Once I discovered all the visible screws were just fake (and destroyed some of them!) and removed the 3 holding screws with their tabs on the outer ring I did found the actual push button inside the fake movement cover and removed the stem so to free the lot from the case
• I then separated the dial using a screwdriver very gently: there were no holding screws for the dial's feet. The dial has two feet that go into the fake movement cover and the caliber remains with the dial holding there just by the hands and rotating freely
• I end up with the dial with the movement on one side and the fake movement cover with the holding ring on the other side: it seems you cannot really pull out the holding ring by itself even after removing the three screws and tabs as it is a very tight fit that already keeps the cover against the dial. So I had to take out the whole from the case, separate the dial from the cover, and push down the ring once I have the cover upside down. Please note I did find three screws on the bottom edge of the cover that supposedly (at least two of them) should engage the 2 hooks that are present on the caliber: one screw was broken and the other two were not engaged by the hooks. Once you place the cover there is no access to the hooks anyway and as I said the ring is very tight...

So now I end up I have to make some jeweler work to repair the damages I inflicted on the fake brass screws, regulate the movement and put this puzzle back together.
I do hope somebody may give me an enlightening advise on how to access the regulator without having to disassemble the whole watch! And that is about that beautiful fake cover, if only they thought to make it in separate sections with real screws to remove it and access the true movement's parts.
BTW to access the regulator on the A2824 you have also to remove the rotor and the Automatic bridge...

Have a look:

 

[fone_]

!

Hi KalKala, maybe you are still around.
Thank you for the information in this thread. Much appreciated.
I was just about to try to remove some of the fake screws to get to the regulator... close call.

I did not understand everything you said perfectly clear, maybe you can answer a few stupid questions.

The fake cover is connected to the dial feet and you have to take everything apart to remove it?
No way to get to the cover off without removing the whole thing from the case?
I am a little worried about aligning the dial correctly if everything can rotate freely.

The 2824 can be regulated with the small screw at the (+) and (-) scale, next to the regulator lever.
Can you not access that screw without removing the rotor and the bridge? I would have thought so?

How did your adventure work out? Did you manage to regulate it and glue everything back in place?

 

[KalKala]

Ha yes, that f***in' movement cover is the tip of the iceberg and to fully access the regulator lever you have to dismantle the whole watch.
It's possible you can use the screw + & - without having to remove the Automatic Bridge, but as I recall (I may be wrong) that screw does nothing and you have to operate the two levers to correct the Bit error or the timing. Besides that screw usually works as a limited timing fine tuning so possibly it wasn't enough to get a decent reading.
In the end I was able to glue all pieces back and the watch is losing about 15" / Day but I don't care and I will not go through all that hassle just to correct the timing...
Let's say you have a nice looking watch on both sides where you have glasses, but once you actually open it to make even some a small operation you'll first notice the oddity of the fake balance bridge, and the fake ratchet wheels of the dual barrels: if you want to fool everybody wearing it as an original piece, you don't need a faked caliber lying hidden on your wrist; if you want to screw someone selling it as an original it will be identified as fake at first glance by anyone in the know.
If you ask me, a complete wast of time and effort: I would rather pay 100 bucks less and have a nice clean 2824 with just some perlage and a few 'fantasy' Brand markings: I don't care if it doesn't look as an Omega caliber! If you cannot clone that movement, leave it alone, or just male some decorations on the actual movement's plate. I was fooled when I've read it had a "beautiful decorated plate" as in horology you have the movement's plate where all the parts are mounted, so instead it was meant just a metal cover encasing the movement. Never again!

 

[fone_]

Thank you for your reply.
You are right about the unnecessary decoration and I would prefer a simple A2824 as well.
But I still like the watch alot. From the top.
I guess I will have to live with the +18 s/d and will not touch the movement.

Thank you again!

 

[KalKala]

Yes, after all I've read somewhere that + - 30" / Day seems to be an acceptable value even for high end watches...

 

[lumentin]

I have a Steinhart Ocean One with an ETA2824, I think it's less than 5 secondes per day. Don't know about the asian copy, though my Aqua Terra rep seems to be in the 5-10s range.
I wouldn't care about the decoration either, if it made the service easier. I am considering a replacement from my more beloved rep with an original ETA movement.

 

[fone_]

All my chinese homages run a bit fast.
My courgeut seamaster homage might be close to +30 s/d but my Steeldive 1952 only runs about +3 s/d, got really lucky with that one.
The NH35 I swapped out in another chinese watch runs well below +10 s/d.


This is my first rep and I somehow expected it to be a little more accurate than my other standard 90,- USD-homages. And I think the movement would be well capable of it.
It just bothers me, that I received a timegrapher picture with +2s/d from the factory and in reality received +18-20 s/d. Without expecting +2 s/d, +18 s/d would be not so bad.

But then again my Seiko SARX 035 runs -13 s/d slow now after 2 years. Not that great either



Have fun with your watches!

 

[KalKala]

With the Asian Calibers actually it is... a Russian Roulette! =8D
I have quite a few replicas in the collection mostly running the DG2813 (Miyota clone with hacking second hand) or the Mingzhu DG3804B: some are running smoothly with a timing less than 15" / Day. For sure the Swiss calibers have some advantages: above all the quality controls, also the materials used and the precision and cleanliness of workmanship during assembly. On the other hand Chinese sometime are found to be dirty, poorly lubricated (either dry or too much), even with damages or wrongly assembled: at other times you get a very good movement running smoothly that may need just some regulations. You never know. Anyway I'm not sure the difference in price truly justify buying a Swiss movement, besides the ETA also has some different rating for their movements so that the cheaper ones (that costs four time an Asian clone) will not keep the timing as precise as the costlier ones...