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Loose crown lock help

mzimand

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23/8/06
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I just got a PAM024 and the crown lock is loose, I am hoping someone can tell me the best way to get it tightened. If I took pliers to it gently and squeezed am I going to mess it up?
Thanks in advance for your help
 

geo1nah2a

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29/9/06
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The crown guard is not upside down, is it?
Check if the 2 screws on the guard are properly screwed in.
If they are ok, check if the rubber o-ring inside the crown is missing.
 

mzimand

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23/8/06
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How can I tell if the Oring is missing?

The crown is not upside down

Just to clarify the crown guard is not loose it is just the lever that is loose

Thanks for the help
 

geo1nah2a

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The o ring is a black rubber inside the crown. Take out the crown guard and try to see if you can make it out using some magnifying glass / loupe. I have a 196 that had the lever loose, and this was due to missing o ring. I am into DIY so, removed the CGuard, opened the back, pushed the stem release, took the crown in my hands, inspected ad ordered an o ring. Now the crown 'snaps' back in place and stays there. I don't know if you want to open your watch, maybe you should consult with your seller..

Did you check that the crown guard is in place? Just to be sure, remove it and reinstall it.
 

sssurfer

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15/3/06
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Is the lever only loose in the open position, or also in the locked position?

Those are two entirely different issues that need entirely different fixes.

The loose lever in the open position is an universal flaw of almost all PAM reps (I just saw a very recent 005 unaffected).

A loose lever in the locked position might be due to the o-ring, but also to a different serious flaw that you can fix on your own, but that also qualifies the watch for a replacement from the dealer.
 

Pix

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Lever, yeah, that's the word I was looking for to describe what's exactly loose :)
I have the same problem, and I'll follow the thread most carefully.
Mine is very loose in open position and slightly when closed.
 

sssurfer

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Pix said:
Mine is very loose in open position and slightly when closed.

Ok. For the loose lever in the closed position:
This is the worst flaw of the two as it may compromise waterproof. It is due to too much room between the crown and the lever, so that the lever is not pressed enough against the crown when closed. In its turn, this can be due to a lacking the gasket below the crown, or to a poorly manufactured CG.
If the gasket is missing, naturally you have to add it.
But even if the gasket is present, adding another gasket (so to increase the overall gasket thickness) may help.
If this does not work, you have to file down the CG feet (where the CG touches the case) a little, so to make the CG shorter, so to reduce the room between the lever and the crown. This can be a tricky task as you need to preserve the CG shape and not to mess the CG screw threads.

For the loose lever in the open position:
This is an universal flaw of almost all PAM reps (I just saw a very recent 005 unaffected). It is not dangerous, but it makes for the easiest way to tell a rep from a gen.
It is due to the fact that the rep lack a rubber gasket around the lever's pin, while the gen have it.
To fix it you have to remove the lever's pin and the lever, slightly enlarge the lever's hole where the pin goes into, put a small segment of a plastic tube (e.g. a piece of electrical wire insulant) into the lever's hole, and reassemble the whole thing. The insulant will replace the missing gasket.
An easier but less durable fix is made by removing the lever's pin and lever, filling the lever's hole with silicon glue, reassembling the whole thing, and leaving all untouched 24 hours in order to leave silicon to harden. In this case the silicon will replace the missing casket.

I hope to have been clear enough, English is not my language so it is quite difficult to me to describe this sort of things. In case, feel free to ask again.
 

Pix

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[smilie=hello2.gif]
Bravo, I'll try that not later that tonight. Thx for the tips.
 

Pix

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ssurfer,
what's your advice to remove the lever pin ?
It does not look like a bracelet pin. Not sure how it goes out.
Thx
 

JOEJOEJOE

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sssurfer said:
Pix said:
Mine is very loose in open position and slightly when closed.

Ok. For the loose lever in the closed position:
This is the worst flaw of the two as it may compromise waterproof. It is due to too much room between the crown and the lever, so that the lever is not pressed enough against the crown when closed. In its turn, this can be due to a lacking the gasket below the crown, or to a poorly manufactured CG.
If the gasket is missing, naturally you have to add it.
But even if the gasket is present, adding another gasket (so to increase the overall gasket thickness) may help.
If this does not work, you have to file down the CG feet (where the CG touches the case) a little, so to make the CG shorter, so to reduce the room between the lever and the crown. This can be a tricky task as you need to preserve the CG shape and not to mess the CG screw threads.

For the loose lever in the open position:
This is an universal flaw of almost all PAM reps (I just saw a very recent 005 unaffected). It is not dangerous, but it makes for the easiest way to tell a rep from a gen.
It is due to the fact that the rep lack a rubber gasket around the lever's pin, while the gen have it.
To fix it you have to remove the lever's pin and the lever, slightly enlarge the lever's hole where the pin goes into, put a small segment of a plastic tube (e.g. a piece of electrical wire insulant) into the lever's hole, and reassemble the whole thing. The insulant will replace the missing gasket.
An easiest but less durable fix is made by removing the lever's pin and lever, filling the lever's hole with silicon glue, reassembling the whole thing, and leaving all untouched 24 hours in order to leave silicon to harden. In this case the silicon will replace the missing casket.

I hope to have been clear enough, English is not my language so it is quite difficult to me to describe this sort of things. In case, feel free to ask again.

wow this is really helpful. One question (even before getting into what you've mentioned) - How do you take the lever and the pin out of the CG? :oops:
 

sssurfer

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Pix said:
ssurfer,
what's your advice to remove the lever pin ?
It does not look like a bracelet pin. Not sure how it goes out.
JOEJOEJOE said:
How do you take the lever and the pin out of the CG? :oops:
Just push the pin out of the CG and the lever will come out easily.

To push the pin, yes, I use a bracelet pin remover, this tool by ofrei (the first in the page):
http://www.ofrei.com/page237.html
It really is a gem of a tool, don't get any cheaper model or it won't work and/or it will break soon and/or it will damage your crown guard.

The pin has a direction you need to push. Usually it is from the downside (wrist side) of the CG towards the upper side. But as some models have it in the opposite direction the best way is to try gently, first in the said direction and if it does not work then in the opposite direction. If the pin does not move you repeat the whole procedure (first one side, and if it does not work then the other side) by applying a little more pressure, and so on until you feel that the pin starts moving.

When the pin comes out, notice its look (it usually has sort of teeth at one end). When you will push it back you'll have to place it back in this original direction of it (but naturally by applying pressure towards the opposite direction that worked to remove it).
 

JOEJOEJOE

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sssurfer said:
Pix said:
ssurfer,
what's your advice to remove the lever pin ?
It does not look like a bracelet pin. Not sure how it goes out.
JOEJOEJOE said:
How do you take the lever and the pin out of the CG? :oops:
Just push the pin out of the CG and the lever will come out easily.

To push the pin, yes, I use a bracelet pin remover, this tool by ofrei (the first in the page):
http://www.ofrei.com/page237.html
It really is a gem of a tool, don't get any cheaper model or it won't work and/or it will break soon and/or it will damage your crown guard.

The pin has a direction you need to push. Usually it is from the downside (wrist side) of the CG towards the upper side. But as some models have it in the opposite direction the best way is to try gently, first in the said direction and if it does not work then in the opposite direction. If the pin does not move you repeat the whole procedure (first one side, and if it does not work then the other side) by applying a little more pressure, and so on until you feel that the pin starts moving.

When the pin comes out, notice its look (it usually has sort of teeth at one end). When you will push it back you'll have to place it back in this original direction of it (but naturally by applying pressure towards the opposite direction that worked to remove it).

Thanks for this info. I thought it was either a spring pin, or just built it like that from factory.

Wiill try this.

Joe
 

sssurfer

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JOEJOEJOE said:
I thought it was either a spring pin, or just built it like that from factory.

Here's a pic that you might find useful in order to know what to expect.

Not all the pins are exactly like these, but often very similar:

cgpinhg7.jpg
 

Pix

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The simple fact to unscrew and screw the crownguard has settled the loose lever problem (in closed position).
I guess that it was just not tight enough when leaving the factory.

As for the open lever problem, I must say I did not manage the plastic tube segment trick. I think that the silicone solution is easier to apply. Before trying it, I have just wrapped a part of the pin into adhesive tape. Most of the tape did not follow the pin when I fixed it back, but the very few that got inserted in the hole managed to make the lever much more stable than before. It's really a tricky way, but it works :D
Next step is to try with glue.

The thing that disturbed me the most on my PAM have now vanished. Thx sssurfer !
 

sssurfer

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Pix said:
The simple fact to unscrew and screw the crownguard has settled the loose lever problem (in closed position).
I guess that it was just not tight enough when leaving the factory.

As for the open lever problem, I must say I did not manage the plastic tube segment trick. I think that the silicone solution is easier to apply. Before trying it, I have just wrapped a part of the pin into adhesive tape. Most of the tape did not follow the pin when I fixed it back, but the very few that got inserted in the hole managed to make the lever much more stable than before. It's really a tricky way, but it works :D
Next step is to try with glue.

The thing that disturbed me the most on my PAM have now vanished. Thx sssurfer !

Glad to read of your success.
I absolutely agree on your concern about the loose-lever-in-open-position. We all are discussing all the time about recessed pins, incorrect "A", thin crown, and so on, while even a baby can spot a rep just by moving the lever.
I've been hit by a (now lost) post on the 'old' RWG 1 where a member was called out by a lady whose boyfriend was an AD seller. She simply moved the lever of the member's watch, then said:
'if you really want a real one, my boyfriend can sell you one at a discounted price'.
Gosh!
Since then, I became a loose-lever modder. I always say that my PAMs are reps (well, almost always -- just some dumbass excluded). But being called out by a lady that way is a completely different matter.

Back to us now.
I too tried the adhesive tape thing. It is about as good as the electric wire insulant. Both they do not completely follow the pin if you don't enlarge the pin hole as I suggested (Dremel required). And yes, the silicone trick is much easier as it does not need to enlarge the lever's hole.
You are right, even a small piece of tape or insulant may be enough to kill the loose lever flaw.

Well, congrats once again on your success. Let me know if you need anything else about the matter or other PAM mod issues.
 

Pix

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:D
Well, I think that buying completely unknown brands as I do (Vacheron, Patek) is probably the best solution not to be called out... Even if it's finally not so important.

But honestly, the chances to get caught with a PAM is almost the same, i.e. close to 0.
Except for Rolex, non watch afficionados have no clue about the whole things we're talking about here, at least those I know.
 

sssurfer

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Pix said:
:D
Well, I think that buying completely unknown brands as I do (Vacheron, Patek) is probably the best solution not to be called out... Even if it's finally not so important.

But honestly, the chances to get caught with a PAM is almost the same, i.e. close to 0.
Except for Rolex, non watch afficionados have no clue about the whole things we're talking about here, at least those I know.
Completely agree.
Here, just 1% people seem to recognise PAMs, and that 1% have no clue to tell a rep from a gen from a hamburger (similarly dark and large).
But, just in case I stumble upon a Panerista, I'd like to wear a decent watch... just to make him die on a watch that is 99% his watch, and 10% its price... You know, Paneristi are local fauna in my country. :lol:

But... Patek an unknown brand?!?... :shock:
 

JOEJOEJOE

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sssurfer said:
Pix said:
:D
Well, I think that buying completely unknown brands as I do (Vacheron, Patek) is probably the best solution not to be called out... Even if it's finally not so important.

But honestly, the chances to get caught with a PAM is almost the same, i.e. close to 0.
Except for Rolex, non watch afficionados have no clue about the whole things we're talking about here, at least those I know.
Completely agree.
Here, just 1% people seem to recognise PAMs, and that 1% have no clue to tell a rep from a gen from a hamburger (similarly dark and large).
But, just in case I stumble upon a Panerista, I'd like to wear a decent watch... just to make him die on a watch that is 99% his watch, and 10% its price... You know, Paneristi are local fauna in my country. :lol:

But... Patek an unknown brand?!?... :shock:

:) I wouldn't neccessarily say Patek is an unknown brand - especially where I live and work. It seems like all partners at my firm wear Patek (looks like a 34mm model in gold with white dial & subdial second at 6) and Ferragamo loafers (with those famous "circles") ... maybe the firm give them the watch and the shoes when they make it to partnership haha (I'd love to join their club one day if this is true).
 

Pix

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Well, you must be the 2 guys I know who are used to Patek Philippe then ^_^
One of my work colleague was completely fond of one of my Trias watch (skletton model), a 60 dollars model, and did not even remark my 5070 chrono :lol:

Said differently, there are statistically less risks to be called out with a Patek than with a PAM, at least where I live.
Is one of you Swiss or something ? ;) :lol:
 

sssurfer

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Pix said:
Well, you must be the 2 guys I know who are used to Patek Philippe then ^_^

Is one of you Swiss or something ? ;) :lol:

Well, not exactly Swiss, but quite close... :D

Out of joke, PP and Piaget seem the two most used brands for dressy watches on important occasions here.