Looking for insight, stuck between two options - PAM 111(NOOB V4) and PAM 312 (VSF)

[WatchEsq123]

I am looking for a high-quality rep to fill out my collection, and am stuck between these two

PAM 111 (Noob V4)
PAM 312 (VSF)

I want something that is a super rep - although I am willing to compromise on functionality (with regard to the jump hour feature on the 312). I read ALE's guide, and pretty much every internet thread on these two, but some things still remain unclear or controverted.

Here's my thought process thus far:

PAM 111 pros:

• Super rep status, no real tells between the rep and the gen
• Thinner/more comfortable wrist profile
• Clean look
• reliable proven movement

PAM 111 cons:

• Can't be absolutely sure I'll get a V4 instead of a V3 or somewhere in between
• Doesn't look as good as the 312 (dial)

PAM 312 pros:

• I like the overall look better
• Quick change strap system

PAM 312 cons:

• Maybe not as much of a super rep as the 111?
• Huge thick profile; I had a DSSD that I sold because it was too tall and not super comfortable
• Less reliable/proven movement, harder to service

Does the 312 from VSF have any tells, aside from the functionality? Is the movement clone accurate in the VSF version? I read ALE's guide, but I am still trying to figure out what the visual differences would be in the latest version (not sure what it would be called)

Are there any other similar models I should be considering?


Just looking for some more insight here if anyone can provide some.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Hawker789]

I’ve got both. I prefer the 312 if I’m honest but the 111 for every day use.

Get both - simples


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[d4m.test]

Swaying towards the 111! Which sites are you looking at for either? If you have links for the exact models I’d appreciate it !
Looking at the 111 v4 - how convinced are you on the strap? Is it exactly the same as gen?

Thanks

 

[Vicar69]

Swaying towards the 111! Which sites are you looking at for either? If you have links for the exact models I’d appreciate it !
Looking at the 111 v4 - how convinced are you on the strap? Is it exactly the same as gen?

Thanks

I’ve been part of this forum about 5 minutes longer than you and you still make me feel old. Do some research!!!


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[mech500]

Hard to beat 111. So long as you get the y-incabloc version, the other v3 or v4 mix/mash parts issue really isn’t a big deal since you really really have to know your stuff to spot the difference. They could be gen variations for all we know.


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[d4m.test]

I’ve been part of this forum about 5 minutes longer than you and you still make me feel old. Do some research!!!


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There are a few different sites that offer this hence the questions mate!

 

[mech500]

There are a few different sites that offer this hence the questions mate!

We’re taking about x2 very specific watches/models/factories. Any TD can get you the mentioned watches


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[d4m.test]

We’re taking about x2 very specific watches/models/factories. Any TD can get you the mentioned watches


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Ok thanks. Sorry still learning the ropes - and I’m currently watching a Ross kemp doc while scrolling so was easier to just ask!

 

[WatchEsq123]

I’ve got both. I prefer the 312 if I’m honest but the 111 for every day use.

Get both - simples


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You are not the influence I need right now lmao

Hard to beat 111. So long as you get the y-incabloc version, the other v3 or v4 mix/mash parts issue really isn’t a big deal since you really really have to know your stuff to spot the difference. They could be gen variations for all we know.


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Any way to tell/get a dealer to get the Y-incabloc version? Or is it just luck of the draw at this point?

 

[Rx4Time]

I'd get the 111. I'm concerned about long term reliability with the super clone movements. If you want an automatic, consider a closed back A7750 model, something like the 088. Same luminor case.

 

[mysterio]

Ok thanks. Sorry still learning the ropes - and I’m currently watching a Ross kemp doc while scrolling so was easier to just ask!

I would suggest finishing watching your Ross Kemp documentary first then reading up to learn the ropes if you're not much of a multi-tasker.

Any way to tell/get a dealer to get the Y-incabloc version? Or is it just luck of the draw at this point?

No luck of the draw needed on that one. Just specify that you want the PAM111 with the Y-incabloc. Check the picture that the TD sends you. It should be like this:

If you look at the circular part, on one side the cut is straight, and on the other side the cut is like a "v" so if you look at that in a overall view the cut looks like a "Y". On the one that is not a Y-incabloc, both sides just has a straight cut, which looks like an "I" (although we don't call that an I-incabloc :lol: ). Here is an example:

You can see clearly the difference.

As for PAM312 vs PAM111, if super rep classification is what's important to you then it's the PAM111. Although the movements for both watches are visible through the display caseback, the factories have had a lot of time to improve on the PAM111's movement, whereas the P.9000 rep movements only have been out a few years so there will be more visual tells on the movement, which holds back the PAM312 from getting a super rep classification.

For the V3 vs V4 debate, people tend to forget that the V3 is already a super rep, the V4 just improves on the V3's remaining tells, which are not apparent unless you are well versed in Panerai and have the gen side by side to compare.

 

[mech500]

You are not the influence I need right now lmao






Any way to tell/get a dealer to get the Y-incabloc version? Or is it just luck of the draw at this point?

Any 111 “v4” you order now will come with y-Incabloc as a minimum update.

111 with y Incabloc is what TDs call “v4”. The other minor v4 updates are unofficial (something members have designated) and its luck of the draw whether you get them or not.

Honestly it’s not even worth worrying about the unofficial v5 updates since they make basically no aesthetic difference IMO.


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[mysterio]

Any 111 “v4” you order now will come with y-Incabloc as a minimum update.

111 with y Incabloc is what TDs call “v4”. The other minor v4 updates are unofficial (something members have designated) and its luck of the draw whether you get them or not.

Honestly it’s not even worth worrying about the unofficial v5 updates since they make basically no aesthetic difference IMO.


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V5? Is there a list of what's improved on the V5 vs the V4? They may not be aesthetic differences but if they are true then differences nonetheless.

 

[mech500]

V5? Is there a list of what's improved on the V5 vs the V4? They may not be aesthetic differences but if they are true then differences nonetheless.

Oops, Typo, I meant v3 and v4 difference are very small.

In fact there isn’t really any official factory definition of what a v4 should look like (apart from maybe v4 includes y-incabloc) .

The v4 definition is something the community has developed internally.

And hardly anyone can spot all the differences (hence the very very long “is this a v4?” Thread).


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[mysterio]

Oops, Typo, I meant v3 and v4 difference are very small.

In fact there isn’t really any official factory definition of what a v4 should look like (apart from maybe v4 includes y-incabloc) .

The v4 definition is something the community has developed internally.

And hardly anyone can spot all the differences (hence the very very long “is this a v4?” Thread).


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I see. Sometimes I think the version number is a chicken or egg proposition, who came up with it first, the factories or the rep dealers or the rep buying community.

 

[d4m.test]

I am looking for a high-quality rep to fill out my collection, and am stuck between these two

PAM 111 (Noob V4)
PAM 312 (VSF)

I want something that is a super rep - although I am willing to compromise on functionality (with regard to the jump hour feature on the 312). I read ALE's guide, and pretty much every internet thread on these two, but some things still remain unclear or controverted.

Here's my thought process thus far:

PAM 111 pros:

• Super rep status, no real tells between the rep and the gen
• Thinner/more comfortable wrist profile
• Clean look
• reliable proven movement

PAM 111 cons:

• Can't be absolutely sure I'll get a V4 instead of a V3 or somewhere in between
• Doesn't look as good as the 312 (dial)

PAM 312 pros:

• I like the overall look better
• Quick change strap system

PAM 312 cons:

• Maybe not as much of a super rep as the 111?
• Huge thick profile; I had a DSSD that I sold because it was too tall and not super comfortable
• Less reliable/proven movement, harder to service

Does the 312 from VSF have any tells, aside from the functionality? Is the movement clone accurate in the VSF version? I read ALE's guide, but I am still trying to figure out what the visual differences would be in the latest version (not sure what it would be called)

Are there any other similar models I should be considering?


Just looking for some more insight here if anyone can provide some.

Thanks in advance!

Saw the 312 at the AD last week while I was in Hong Kong. Like the blue seconds hand, you get the number “9” on the dial which I kind of like compared to 111 which doesn’t have it and you also get the date which the 111 doesn’t have. Gen vs Gen i prefer the 312 over the 111.

However when it comes to Rep I prefer the 111. Think you summed up the pros and cons. Now just depends on whats important to you! For me it’s closest to gen as possible so I chose Noob V3/V4 111. This model will have th Y-incabloc like mysterio pointed out. I ordered mine from puretime which is trusted dealer here. It’s nice and I’m happy with it however, when I think of Panerai I always associate them with the sausage dials so now I’ll probably pull the trigger on the Pam 000 by XF. At one point it was NWBIG and from what I’ve been reading seems the new XF release improved on the sausage dial even better.

any who, I’m getting off topic. Go with your gut. At the end of the day as long as you’re happy with it on your wrist that’s all that should matter.

 

[d4m.test]

I’m also considering the 312, what version would be best? I’ve seen ZF versions and V6 as well. Not sure which way to go.