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Latest release from KW PAM 312, 360, 382, 386, 505

ALE7575

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Thanks tom_cat

I saw these watches in KW catalogue and indeed they are fitted with a new decoration of A7750 movement, like ZFac with non inverted layout called ZP9000-V2

Both new decorations are based in the same:
- Keep the balance cock a little hidden under the escapement wheel and its support and the rest of parts involved in this zone of the watch. The real balance cock is always the same but remains hidden under the decoration.
- Makers are including a completely false and decorative balance cock starting in the opposite side and getting the same orientation as the gen balance cock
- Above mentioned allows to get a bridges decoration with the same layout as gen and with the inscriptions placed in the same way and orientation.
- Maker cannot avoid to have the balance wheel @11 since they are always using an A7750 as movement base. Whereas gen balance wheel is placed @7

Therefore we get a more accurate layout of the movement and inscriptions but completely rotated, because the balance wheel is placed in a different placement (that is teh same in previous decorations

What are the differences between ZFac ( ZP900-V2 ) and KW ( KP9000-V2 ) new non inverted decorations ??

- ZFac uses a false new decoration of balance cock with similar shape to previous versions but correctly orientated. As you can see in below pics this balance cock decoration is really inaccurate.
- KW is using a false new decoration of balance cock, much more accurate as you can see in below pics
- The "hole" in the balance wheel zone is bigger in gen in comparison with the reps. But, as you can see in the pics KW decoration plates have a shape more gen-like and leave a "hole" a bit more accurate than ZFac
- In order to hide the real balance cock ZFac has reduced this bridge almost to a bar. We don't know yet if this drastic reduction could affect the working of the movement, since the balance cock is supporting the upper tip of the balance wheel and with that reduction could transfer to the balance wheel more easily vibrations and external movements or impacts, affecting the overall running. We would need some time to know about this matter and get a wise opinion about from the future owner's comments.
- KW seems not to have reduced the real balance cock (or has made a very little reduction) thinking of the escapement wheel and its support, together with other parts placed in this zone, would be able to hidden or dissimulate enough the real balance cock. IMO this is a correct decision, because the real balance cock is barely seen under the escapemen wheel and the rest of the parts involved. I thinks it is no necessary to reduce the real balance cock and to take risks of movement working, because the real balance cock remain dissimulated enough in KW movement.
- Inscriptions on bridges, besides the placement and correct orientation, seem better than in previous versions. Just to say that ZFac inscriptions are nicer than KW, because KW are clearly thicker than gen. In this regard ZFac is superior to KW (maybe only in this regard)

Bellow are showed New V2 movements ZP9000-V2 and KP9000-V2 in comparison with the gen. The first pic shows the movements in the same alignment (sse the crowns)
Second pics show the rep movement rotated to match the position of the balance wheel

P9000-GENvsZFacV2-defi_zpsb8de927b.jpg

GEN P.9000 IN COMPARISON WITH DECORATED ZFac ZP9000-V2 WITH THE WATCHES IN THE SAME POSITION. See aligned crowns

P9000-GENvsKWV2-defi_zpse7ec613c.jpg

GEN P.9000 IN COMPARISON WITH DECORATED KW KP9000-V2 WITH THE WATCHES IN THE SAME POSITION. See aligned crowns

P9000-GENvsZFacV2-TURNED-defi_zps6227d052.jpg

GEN P.9000 IN COMPARISON WITH DECORATED ZFac ZP9000 V2 WITH THE WATCHES ROTATED TO GET MATCHING. See the crowns in different positions

P9000-GENvsKWV2-TURNED-defi_zps49d55bbf.jpg

GEN P.9000 IN COMPARISON WITH DECORATED KW KP9000 V2 WITH THE WATCHES ROTATED TO GET MATCHING. See the crowns in different positions

IMO, leaving aside the inscriptions on decoration plates (really good in ZFAc), KW is actually more accurate and, most likely, more reliable.
We will see the working of both movements in the future

ALE
 

fire007

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What is the consensus on the new Kw bronzo v3 please ?
 

tom_cat

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cheers ALE for the detail info on differences of ZF and KW P900 V2 movements. I do also think that the KW is nicer and closer to gen especially with balance wheel cock and cut out area. I guess i will grab one from KW if they release pam388 with those movement
 

Pamtastic

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I agree that the kw movement looks closer to gen, but what is with that font?? It's so much thicker then gen it's almost comical. I have to believe that kw will address that in short time.
Also, I thought the factory went by the name of V6 now, not kw anymore, no?
 

mysterio

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I prefer the ST2555 because of the balance wheel position. Maybe plates from this one exchanged to the ST2555? That would make for a best of both worlds rep. :D
 

kilowattore

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Great post ALE, seeing the pics I agree that the decorative plates and the balance cock are better in KW, on the other hand fonts are way better in ZF.
Both are nice movements imho.
Regarding the possible reliability issues I have to agree as well, even though I understand little about movements your explanation seems logical.

With that said, I would still go for the ST2555 where possible: cheaper, reliable and nice as well though maybe at this point a little less visually accurate.

Vbmrk, I agree with you, maybe it's time we stop referring to this reps as coming from kuvarsit, at least from what I understand from some dealers.
Problem is KW has become a sort of brand we mentally identify with superior quality (like noob), and this could be used to influence sales. We should try and keep our evaluations as balanced as possible ;)

Finally, a little note on the v3 382: It looks very pink compared to my v1 in the pics I saw, plus I read some negative comments on RG about pearl and CG. Maybe it deserves a proper thread.
 

ALE7575

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I agree that the kw movement looks closer to gen, but what is with that font?? It's so much thicker then gen it's almost comical. I have to believe that kw will address that in short time.
Also, I thought the factory went by the name of V6 now, not kw anymore, no?

Yes, thicker inscriptions are really disappointing. The issue is less visible en real size but it exists, indeed some previous versions had also thicker inscriptions

The last PAMs called V6Fac or KW, like PAM531, are actually exactly the same.
Maybe a commercial or manufacture "WAR", likely due to a co-ownership of tools to make the watches. But this is just a speculation from myself

ALE
 

dabestone

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Hi guys,

base on the inscriptions on SWISS MADE & P9000. This is considered as INVERTED and definitely not the KW v3. Am I right?

Appreciate the comments. Cheers :)

IMG_9352_20150111_163154617_copy1.jpg
 

ALE7575

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Hi guys,

base on the inscriptions on SWISS MADE & P9000. This is considered as INVERTED and definitely not the KW v3. Am I right?

Appreciate the comments. Cheers :)

IMG_9352_20150111_163154617_copy1.jpg

Yes this is an INVERTED layout movement
ALE