The Noob version of PAM 187 is with us since late 2011. The gen watch was supplied by Joshua / Perfect Clones for this replication (that was the time Joshua had better connections with Noob than now).
This version was expected to cure problems of previous 187 reps, especially with:
- bezel digits, which were quite easy to get lost since they were just glued in - Noob's version has it soldered from underneath the bezel, as per gen.
- provide date changing pusher actually working. Previous version used A7750 so the date pusher was faux. Another, more expensive version actually used Swiss ETA 7753 so the solution was costly but right on the function.
Noob used their A7753 version of the movement, so they could mimic GEN function with date pusher. The movement decoration on the rotor is wrong, anyway…
It is interesting that first batches of GEN PAM 187 had these bezel digits made of white gold but …glued in, too. First owners had the same problems as owners of previous reps of this watch. Officine Panerai started free replacement action to replace white-gold bezel to polished stainless steel ones (where SS digits could be soldered from other site of a bezel).
After some consideration I abandoned the idea of doing whole / full review of this watch since it is well known one already and well described i.e. in ALE7575 great guide of PAM reps. I decided to focus only on the latest batch of this replication.
So what about the latest version of PAM 187 from Noob - how good it is? Is it Super Rep as per ALE7575 guide or not? Is it true for all batches of this watch? Let's see…
I have ordered my PAM 187 rep from Joshua, being sure it is "well seasoned" rep, Super Rep status and so on. Besides, I always wanted one. Confirmed QC photos and started to collect online sources for gen information meanwhile. Since I talked with ALE7575 about concentric circles on PAM 299 and PAM 243 subdials - I checked this topic for 187, too. Photos of Noob 187 were showing quite flat, recessed subdials. I found someone's photos of PAM 187 gen dial, with nice macro shots of it. And there were concentric circles! Contacted ALE757 about this, he recognized the problem and wrote to me that his new PAM 187 is lacking these recessed subdials, too! He kindly offered to send his watch to me in order to make my upcoming review more detailed and to compare his version with mine, when I get it.
I got my watch. It is lacking recessed subdials. It has some problems with chrono operations. Long story short - I ordered another one from Joshua, while the first one was used for this review and will be taken to the watch smith for full service in hope it will cure problems… ALE757 encouraged me to "open his watch" and even damage it for the purpose of review but, since I already had a bad one - his watch is safe
CASE SET
The case set is almost perfect. Some early problems with too-easy-to-be-broken date change pusher are solved to the degree "it is not so easy to break this button" during unscrewing and then - screwing it back. Right now just remember to use the same level of force when unscrewing and screwing the pusher back as to unscrew and screw back chrono pushers - stop when it wants to stop and that's OK.
The minute markers on the bezel ale soldered from behind, as mentioned before. Their shapes are a bit different than on gen but, since they are shiny - it is difficult to spot it unless directly comparing with i.e. picture of a gen watch. You can spot differences, especially with "30" digits shapes (GEN on the right):
The gen CG has more pronounced internal angle, the one on the left of CG pin. All the rest is fine by me.
DIAL
Well, as we already know, the latest batch from Noob got wrong dial because of not recessed subdials. Anyway, the list of things repped wrong is much longer:
- subdials (in this version) are not recessed
- subdials lack concentric circles (in all A7753 PAM 187 by Noob versions)
- the hours markers and "12" marker are shiny on the sides
- the blue text "1000" is too dark
- the date window is too close to 5 o'clock (should be centered between 4 and 5)
- all the white printings should be a tad thicker
- all the non-white marker printings should be a tad thicker (I mean these markers on subdials on 9 and 3)
The whole process of dial assembly, painting and printing has been inverted a bit on the rep in comparison to gen process:
In gen dial the process was like this:
1. holes for needles, date and mounting positions for hour markers were drilled and subdials were milled
2. hour markers and "12" digits were mounted on the dial
3. everything was painted with the same matte paint
4. all printings were transferred onto the dial using custom shape gelatine/silicone tampon, to actually print between hour markers and the gap between 7 and 5 o'clocks AFTER these elements were installed on step 2.
5. markers were filled with t-lume
6. internal bezel was attached
On the rep the dial maker went cheaper way:
1. holes for needles, date and mounting positions for hour markers were drilled and subdials were stamped (but not in the latest batch)
2. dial's surface was painted with matte paint
3. all printings were transferred onto the dial using standard shape gelatine/silicone tampon - which requires FLAT dial without any obstacles, otherwise printing i.e. subdial on 9 o'clock would be difficult when printing so close to already installed hour markers.
4. shiny hour markers and "12" digits were mounted on the already painted and printed dial
5. markers were filled with a lume
6. internal bezel was attached
Simple process of transfer printing when producing dials is explained / shown there: http://home.watchprosite.com/show-nblog.post/ti-439191/
This is a macro photo of a "broken" 187, hence bad date alignment (don't worry about that). I am showing this, since on this dial it is quite easy visible the dial maker attempted to stamp subdials but they got it wrong. You can see faint "halo" of recessed subdial, not deep enough.
Now to the rest of photos, showing wrong details of a dial:
I hope I will find more time end of this week to do some more macro photos of internals of a case set and so on. Since I am not sure about that "free time" - I did not wanted all of You to wait, so I decided to publish this "welcome to the flatland" review
Do I like the watch even with above pointed flaws? You bet I like it! I even ordered another one from Joshua to keep the first one as a source of spare parts.
I would like to say "thank you" to ALE7575 for sending his PAM 187 to me to compare. In fact, both watches are different in the way how bad subdials were "stamped" and have a bit different backgrounds of date wheels but the rest is all the same - which was to be expected.
Don't You like the look of it?
Some additional photos of caseback and movement, just for eye-candy:
We all do hope Noob will revert to the previous quality of dials AT LEAST, leaving aside problems with shiny markers etc. I don't know what ALE7575 will do with this watch in his PAM GUIDE but I guess the latest batch will drop down to almost fantasy rep with this dial
This version was expected to cure problems of previous 187 reps, especially with:
- bezel digits, which were quite easy to get lost since they were just glued in - Noob's version has it soldered from underneath the bezel, as per gen.
- provide date changing pusher actually working. Previous version used A7750 so the date pusher was faux. Another, more expensive version actually used Swiss ETA 7753 so the solution was costly but right on the function.
Noob used their A7753 version of the movement, so they could mimic GEN function with date pusher. The movement decoration on the rotor is wrong, anyway…
It is interesting that first batches of GEN PAM 187 had these bezel digits made of white gold but …glued in, too. First owners had the same problems as owners of previous reps of this watch. Officine Panerai started free replacement action to replace white-gold bezel to polished stainless steel ones (where SS digits could be soldered from other site of a bezel).
After some consideration I abandoned the idea of doing whole / full review of this watch since it is well known one already and well described i.e. in ALE7575 great guide of PAM reps. I decided to focus only on the latest batch of this replication.
So what about the latest version of PAM 187 from Noob - how good it is? Is it Super Rep as per ALE7575 guide or not? Is it true for all batches of this watch? Let's see…
I have ordered my PAM 187 rep from Joshua, being sure it is "well seasoned" rep, Super Rep status and so on. Besides, I always wanted one. Confirmed QC photos and started to collect online sources for gen information meanwhile. Since I talked with ALE7575 about concentric circles on PAM 299 and PAM 243 subdials - I checked this topic for 187, too. Photos of Noob 187 were showing quite flat, recessed subdials. I found someone's photos of PAM 187 gen dial, with nice macro shots of it. And there were concentric circles! Contacted ALE757 about this, he recognized the problem and wrote to me that his new PAM 187 is lacking these recessed subdials, too! He kindly offered to send his watch to me in order to make my upcoming review more detailed and to compare his version with mine, when I get it.
I got my watch. It is lacking recessed subdials. It has some problems with chrono operations. Long story short - I ordered another one from Joshua, while the first one was used for this review and will be taken to the watch smith for full service in hope it will cure problems… ALE757 encouraged me to "open his watch" and even damage it for the purpose of review but, since I already had a bad one - his watch is safe
CASE SET
The case set is almost perfect. Some early problems with too-easy-to-be-broken date change pusher are solved to the degree "it is not so easy to break this button" during unscrewing and then - screwing it back. Right now just remember to use the same level of force when unscrewing and screwing the pusher back as to unscrew and screw back chrono pushers - stop when it wants to stop and that's OK.
The minute markers on the bezel ale soldered from behind, as mentioned before. Their shapes are a bit different than on gen but, since they are shiny - it is difficult to spot it unless directly comparing with i.e. picture of a gen watch. You can spot differences, especially with "30" digits shapes (GEN on the right):
The gen CG has more pronounced internal angle, the one on the left of CG pin. All the rest is fine by me.
DIAL
Well, as we already know, the latest batch from Noob got wrong dial because of not recessed subdials. Anyway, the list of things repped wrong is much longer:
- subdials (in this version) are not recessed
- subdials lack concentric circles (in all A7753 PAM 187 by Noob versions)
- the hours markers and "12" marker are shiny on the sides
- the blue text "1000" is too dark
- the date window is too close to 5 o'clock (should be centered between 4 and 5)
- all the white printings should be a tad thicker
- all the non-white marker printings should be a tad thicker (I mean these markers on subdials on 9 and 3)
The whole process of dial assembly, painting and printing has been inverted a bit on the rep in comparison to gen process:
In gen dial the process was like this:
1. holes for needles, date and mounting positions for hour markers were drilled and subdials were milled
2. hour markers and "12" digits were mounted on the dial
3. everything was painted with the same matte paint
4. all printings were transferred onto the dial using custom shape gelatine/silicone tampon, to actually print between hour markers and the gap between 7 and 5 o'clocks AFTER these elements were installed on step 2.
5. markers were filled with t-lume
6. internal bezel was attached
On the rep the dial maker went cheaper way:
1. holes for needles, date and mounting positions for hour markers were drilled and subdials were stamped (but not in the latest batch)
2. dial's surface was painted with matte paint
3. all printings were transferred onto the dial using standard shape gelatine/silicone tampon - which requires FLAT dial without any obstacles, otherwise printing i.e. subdial on 9 o'clock would be difficult when printing so close to already installed hour markers.
4. shiny hour markers and "12" digits were mounted on the already painted and printed dial
5. markers were filled with a lume
6. internal bezel was attached
Simple process of transfer printing when producing dials is explained / shown there: http://home.watchprosite.com/show-nblog.post/ti-439191/
This is a macro photo of a "broken" 187, hence bad date alignment (don't worry about that). I am showing this, since on this dial it is quite easy visible the dial maker attempted to stamp subdials but they got it wrong. You can see faint "halo" of recessed subdial, not deep enough.
Now to the rest of photos, showing wrong details of a dial:
I hope I will find more time end of this week to do some more macro photos of internals of a case set and so on. Since I am not sure about that "free time" - I did not wanted all of You to wait, so I decided to publish this "welcome to the flatland" review
Do I like the watch even with above pointed flaws? You bet I like it! I even ordered another one from Joshua to keep the first one as a source of spare parts.
I would like to say "thank you" to ALE7575 for sending his PAM 187 to me to compare. In fact, both watches are different in the way how bad subdials were "stamped" and have a bit different backgrounds of date wheels but the rest is all the same - which was to be expected.
Don't You like the look of it?
Some additional photos of caseback and movement, just for eye-candy:
We all do hope Noob will revert to the previous quality of dials AT LEAST, leaving aside problems with shiny markers etc. I don't know what ALE7575 will do with this watch in his PAM GUIDE but I guess the latest batch will drop down to almost fantasy rep with this dial
