Is this a swiss mov't?

[Big L]

asian or swiss?

 

[brownvaliant]

i'll have a tentative stab...

seems to have the correct shape incabloc shock protection (although some come with 'full circle' noviadoc)...

has the correct pin-shaped needle on par with a basic 6497-1 too.

looks to be a low beat (again, on par for a -1, but off course for this gen's -2), but can't see the if the spokes are straight or flared from the photo...

still, accuracy wise, the heart may well be true, yet visually, the big high font, and the pin needle, are basic giveaways...

the gen's 6497-2 runs smaller circles a fair bit faster, definitely wears flares, and packs a dagger.

depends if u go for cover over content, or not.

bought a couple of things from the seller whose name is marked on the picture.

been ok...

out.
ksshhk

 

[takashi]

Asian Actually... I would say all of 'em is Asian

Joking aside, you have a hybrid movement. But more Asian parts.

 

[hooligan]

Looks to be Swiss to me, L.

 

[takashi]

To complicate matters, that plate and bridges are not standard ETA6497 and... guess what, made in China.

 

[Pannyforme]

well its to me asian...why?IMHO u get stock eta movements which its bridges are undecorated like panerai's.basically the notion is panerai made those bridges not eta.so basically what u see in our pams have those pam bridges right?so basically since its a rep..meaning its made in asia..meaning its still an asian movement since its bridges HAS to be made in asia..anyway..IMHO asian is better..opt for an asian instead of swiss as asian has 21K beat rate..swiss has 18k(correct me if im wrong).and the only big diff is the polished gears,presence of swan neck,and font.but anyway a smart lad would spot a fake pam not by the recessed pin but how close the crown has to be on the watch's case(corrrect me if im wrong again)

 

[Big L]

Thanks guys.

I got this from iOffer. the seller claims and posted a swiss mov't for $308, but I'm not sure if he'll actually send this mov't for this price.

"Pam 111 H series Swiss Unitas 6497, Swan neck Regulator
Model : SS Black Sandwich Dial with Leather strap + Pre V Buckle
Movement: Swiss Unitas 17 J Manual Handwind movement, Swan neck regulatuer, Cotes de Geneve Bridges
Functions:
Hours, Minutes, Secs ( 9.00 Subdials)
Dimensions : Dia 44mm x 12.5mm Thk
Material : 1 piece forged case construction, solid 316 stainless steel
Back : Display case back with H -Series number
Crown : One-piece pull out crown with o ring
Crystal: Sapphire Crystal front and back , Light AR coated at the front
Water-resistant" - Ansonbuddy, iOffer.

Does anyone know where I can buy a sterile Swiss 6497-2?

 

[hooligan]

well its to me asian...why?IMHO u get stock eta movements which its bridges are undecorated like panerai's.basically the notion is panerai made those bridges not eta.so basically what u see in our pams have those pam bridges right?

Well, yes. The only 100% Swiss 6497s we see in reps are the square bridged movements with no swan neck regulator and the glued-on foil decoration over the stock ETA bridges.. But this movement is as "Swiss" as it gets for anything with CdG decorated bridges and a swan neck. Oh, and SOPROD does the movement modifications/decoration for Panerai, they don't do it in-house.

so basically since its a rep..meaning its made in asia..meaning its still an asian movement since its bridges HAS to be made in asia..anyway..IMHO asian is better..opt for an asian instead of swiss as asian has 21K beat rate..swiss has 18k(correct me if im wrong).and the only big diff is the polished gears,presence of swan neck,and font.but anyway a smart lad would spot a fake pam not by the recessed pin but how close the crown has to be on the watch's case(corrrect me if im wrong again)

Well, the crown doesn't HAVE to sit that close to the case, they just do on a lot of reps. Correct, the A6497 is a clone of a 6497-2, so it has the correct beat rate and is more correct visually, as well. The only problem is that A6497 spare parts are hard to come by. Not so with the Swiss 6497-1s, but some of the parts aren't interchangeable. The Asian movements are generally cheap enough that it's usually not a big hit to simply buy another movement if you have one that is broken, instead of repairing.

L, real Swiss 6497-2s are pretty hard to come by and they are usually $500+ for the movement if you can find one. Not really worth it, IMO.

 

[Big L]

well its to me asian...why?IMHO u get stock eta movements which its bridges are undecorated like panerai's.basically the notion is panerai made those bridges not eta.so basically what u see in our pams have those pam bridges right?

Well, yes. The only 100% Swiss 6497s we see in reps are the square bridged movements with no swan neck regulator and the glued-on foil decoration over the stock ETA bridges.. But this movement is as "Swiss" as it gets for anything with CdG decorated bridges and a swan neck. Oh, and SOPROD does the movement modifications/decoration for Panerai, they don't do it in-house.

so basically since its a rep..meaning its made in asia..meaning its still an asian movement since its bridges HAS to be made in asia..anyway..IMHO asian is better..opt for an asian instead of swiss as asian has 21K beat rate..swiss has 18k(correct me if im wrong).and the only big diff is the polished gears,presence of swan neck,and font.but anyway a smart lad would spot a fake pam not by the recessed pin but how close the crown has to be on the watch's case(corrrect me if im wrong again)

Well, the crown doesn't HAVE to sit that close to the case, they just do on a lot of reps. Correct, the A6497 is a clone of a 6497-2, so it has the correct beat rate and is more correct visually, as well. The only problem is that A6497 spare parts are hard to come by. Not so with the Swiss 6497-1s, but some of the parts aren't interchangeable. The Asian movements are generally cheap enough that it's usually not a big hit to simply buy another movement if you have one that is broken, instead of repairing.

L, real Swiss 6497-2s are pretty hard to come by and they are usually $500+ for the movement if you can find one. Not really worth it, IMO.

So how much do the asian 6497-2 cost around?

 

[brownvaliant]

thanks to shouchu (google it and try!) and insomnia, I've just discovered something...
reps are being repped.

got half a dozen nekkid movements here and discovered one with the following:

Low beat; true to the ungen gen motors we adore.

flared pants; true to the gen that our ungen gens seek to legitimise themselves by not having.

the dagger; true to the gen that our ungen gen movements need help to genuinely justify their existence.

the stamp; true to both gens, and which has now been repped to pass movements as a rep gen low beats.

...anyway it's dead...

 

[cybee]

I have found that one easy tell, at least the very few clones I have seen is regarding the center wheel. I have noticed on real swiss the teeth on the center wheels are spaced a little further apart, teeth are longer, and much sharper not to mention the overall finish and appearance. Look how nicely spaced the teeth are on your watch. Now go compare it with a clone.

Many of the parts are cloned really well and not easy to distinguish the difference but I have yet to see a asian clone produce a center wheel as nice as the swiss. I would guess the movement in your photo is swiss only based the center wheel and would only follow that the rest of the wheel train is swiss, which is the heart of the watch along with the balance assembly.
It's all fun.

1st photo is a clone center wheel. 2nd photo real swiss. Actually is easier to tell the difference with the naked eye.

 

[Pannyforme]

Well, the crown doesn't HAVE to sit that close to the case, they just do on a lot of reps.

really?i thought the closeness of the crown to the case is like a trademark system for panerai?

and oh sorry..i didnt know who made the bridges..soprod eh?thanks for the info!

 

[hooligan]

Nope, take a look at some gen Panerai pics. The crowns will vary from year to year, but most of them sit a decent distance away from the case...

Yes, SOPROD does all the movement modification/decoration for the gen Panerai movements (bridges, swan neck regulator, etc.).

 

[horologie_unitas]

Master cybee,
you are 100% correct. the finish of the gears are a indication.

this movement is / id say.....hybrid. will cause no problems for years, have some running for 2-3 years now, no probs.

and finding a SWISS made ETA 6497 - 2......very difficult. id guess they run for about $ 500. RAW.