Is a "Perfect Rep Dial" even possible for PAMS?

[ganjamun]

Ok, I'm no expert in watch making but if someone were to buy a real PAM, wouldnt it then be easy to reproduce the perfect dial? Sort of like doing backwards engineering here.

So I was wondering why people arent getting the dials right all the time? So for an example... the dials on Most 111H reps where the swiss made is too close together with the number 6.

And the fonts....

Why why why? I'd like to know...

:!: :idea: :?:

 

[watchlover]

I will sell my gens when that day comes.. no really... I'm serious

 

[babola]

Re: Is a "Perfect Rep Dial" even possible for PAMS

No one will be willing to send his/hers gen for dissasembly and nitpicking at the rep factory even if they asked nicely

Also, purchasing a gen in order to produce the 1:1 copy is simply prohibitive for most of the rep factories, especially because those factories focus and specialise on producing only one or few watch parts like dials only, or hands only etc.

Sadly in this day of age, most of the reps are still produced by copying from gen photos, without even employing omnipresent CAD tools. This is why, for example, you'll see a rep of a gen that never made it into production, but was advertised on gen web site, like numerous PAM prototypes. Some example include 036 MM without serial no, 219 Lefty with 'L Swiss Made L" touching the bottom of 6 o'clock, 243 Sub with split 'L Swiss Made L' instead below 6 o'clock, 212 with silver colored subsecond hands and polished chrono pushers etc the list goes on... 8)

Still, what we have these days while not perfect it's as good as it gets as far as reps are concerned...we may see some even further improvements in this field, but I wouldn't count on too many...I'm hapy as is...all of my PAMs had to undergo a post-delivery "spa" treatments anyway

cheers,
babola

 

[ganjamun]

Thanks for your responses guys!

Well to me, it makes more sense to invest in a gen watch in order to rep em almost perfectly. Dont you think?

But if what you say is true.... if they're making all these watches by looking at photos, then I'm impressed.

I own a 187, it's my favorite watch to date and they are pretty close to the gens in pics, besides some minor details. But then again, I've never seen a 187 in person. I gotta be real lucky to come across one.

 

[beano2004]

i had two Genuine Pam03 dial and hands and the cost for these alone was 3 reps, so the price for Gen items while first and foremost are very hard to come across, secondly they are very expensive. Its a shame that our currently dealers can make the dial 1:1 but some of the flaws that are currenlty out there would only be noticed by the real avid collector and if they are not into pams they would never know the difference. I have a good friend and he collects only Rolex's old and new and his collection is extremely large, when i showed him my modded GMTII it looked exactly like his from the quick glance that he looked, now you and i both know the differences. I think if the base pams were some where around 2K i would just buy one and be done with it, but seeing they are at the 3K mark used, i would rather build a franken pam and take a 1/3 invested and feell quite happy.

just my thoughts

Bean

 

[luc]

the much touted answer that i have most faith in is simply that by creating a perfect dial they kill the market in terms of future generations.

If a 'perfect' dial were created no one would need to buy the upgrade that follows in six months. Whilst many people on this forum nit pick over small details that most of us will never notice and are happy to buy two or three of the same watch, if i saw a perfect dialled panerai i know i would probably buy that one and that would be it.

Mistakes, i feel, are left in as a sort of insurance policy by the factory. notice how whenever one part of the dial is fixed, another part goes wrong. hope i dont sound too much like a conspiracy theorist

 

[beano2004]

luc, you hit the nail on the head why create the perfect watch dial when every 6 months you can come out with a newer version of the dial and everybody will go out and buy the latest and greatest. For the chineese this is a business not a hobby so what ever way that can maximize their returns they will follow that path. I know i deal with the Chineese contact manufacure all day long and that are excellent at maximizing their returns.

bean

 

[kresog]

I agree with bean... It is a serious business for that guys... More fun for us, more money for them... 1st, 2nd, 3rd, xy, ultimate version...

 

[ssalxpanerai]

I agree with bean... It is a serious business for that guys... More fun for us, more money for them... 1st, 2nd, 3rd, xy, ultimate version...

I agree. This is why I prefer to wait for more time on those new models. They will be improved for sure. Otherwise, they will be limited on sell volume. This has been critisized quite a lot on those big name dealers as you will know certainly. I talked to few dealers and they are really aware of making rep closed to gen since customers nowadays also very detail on rep. The limitation is that sometimes their dealers will not cooperate.

 

[pugwash]

the much touted answer that i have most faith in is simply that by creating a perfect dial they kill the market in terms of future generations.

This is a silly conspiracy theory: It assumes all factories work together to keep us hungry. The sooner people stop believing this crap the better. :shock:

If this is the case, what went wrong with the TAG Link Chrono, or the new generation of SuperReps? How come the latest Planet Ocean is as good as we need or the Franck Muller conq is millimeter perfect? What about the IWC GST, or the MoonWatch, which is as perfect as you can get with the movement available?

What you need to understand is that most watches are made from parts by mom-and-pop shops in back rooms of peasant houses. Can you imagine how little they care about the dial print? If whoever makes dials tells them it's accurate, they'll buy it.

 

[watchnut7]

I deal with many smaller manufacturers who are just not willing to invest in a gen to perfect their reps. They lack the eyes and don't believe the flaws matter, esp. for what they are making out of what they sell. I read Davidsen would buy a gen if possible, dissemble it, and put it back and sell it. That's a good way to do it if the model is purchasable, not too expensive and easy to resell. If the manufacturers make $100 which is way-optimistic, they have to sell 30 reps to account for the cost of a $3000 gen. I doubt even Davidsen is doing that often. He's probably the only manufacturer and dealer in one body so he has more margin to work with. The other manufacturers sell through dealers and that's why $100 profit per watch for them is optimistic.

 

[pugwash]

If the manufacturers make $100 which is way-optimistic, they have to sell 30 reps to account for the cost of a $3000 gen.

They probably make a lot less than $10 per watch. At a guess, it'd be less than $5.