Interested in buying a 164N - share your experience with H or N versions, please!

[korneevy]

Hi, after a few months, I somehow got interested in buying a 164N which never appealed to me in the first place but now I am very much into it, especially after trying on a gen at the local boutique. It is def a little different from other PAMs due to its dial so I figured why not to get one. And it is here where I am at the cross roads as there are two versions of the 164 out there, by the usual contenders of H and N factories.

As I understand and have read, the movement is better and dial is more accurate on H factory release, while pretty much everything else is better on Noob. As price difference in this case is a non-issue, I wanted to ask the owners of respective models to share their views on:

- Movement performance
- Quick release buttons
- Crystal and cyclop
- Anything else you've come across after having the watch for a while

Thanks!

 

[ALE7575]

Many people waiting for these comparisons.
Few people willing to share them.

We have waiting more...
At this moment all seen comments are included in the PAM REVIEW-GUIDE
"Reference PAM REVIEW-GUIDE" - Replica Search, Identification, Evaluation & Selection

ALE

 

[korneevy]

Many people waiting for these comparisons.
Few people willing to share them.

We have waiting more...
At this moment all seen comments are included in the PAM REVIEW-GUIDE
"Reference PAM REVIEW-GUIDE" - Replica Search, Identification, Evaluation & Selection

ALE

Thanks mate, just to clarify - I am not looking for a comparison as it is unlikely someone will buy and use both of these versions at the same time, I am looking for people's feedback on performance and features of their particular watch.

 

[ALE7575]

as it is unlikely someone will buy and use both of these versions at the same time

Hi korn
You have well got it !!
This is the main matter !!

ALE

 

[Ander7]

Thanks mate, just to clarify - I am not looking for a comparison as it is unlikely someone will buy and use both of these versions at the same time, I am looking for people's feedback on performance and features of their particular watch.

Maybe I should make the 1st move then.

After reading ALE's website on this model, I understand that the H factory 164 is not carry buy Puretime. The Noobs one from Puretime cost USD338 vs H factory cost USD298 from some other dealer.

In my opinion, Puretime seem to be cheaper as they throw in an additional free strap removing tool which cost USD50 if purchase separately.

Now back to your few queries below:

- Movement performance - It is 4.5 sec per day. has been monitoring for the past 3 week.

- Quick release buttons - not sure how the gen feel, but i don't feel any abnormal from my Rep one.

- Crystal and cyclop - Initially, thought that this is big issue when I realized that there are obvious machining/cutting mark when viewing the cyclop at an angle. Went down to AD and realized that it is the same as gen.


- Anything else you've come across after having the watch for a while - All I can say is, this is my 1st rep. After getting hold of this in 3 week ago, it become the watch I like most. All my gen watches that are cost more than 10k has been park aside.....

 

[Mr.RadioActive]

I will be glad to assist, I have owned a new AD purchased 164, a H 164, and a N 164.
Hands down out of the reps the H factory 164 is the clear winner.
I am NOT a Pam expert. I own a gen PAM, and have owned 2 other PAM gens I have sold. My FAVORITE pam ever is the 164. As for reps I currently own 4 Gen Soprod (have had one or two more its late and I can't remember!) PAMS, and 6 others at this moment. Again I'm a wearer but NOT a expert in any way shape or form.

I find NOTHING better on the Noob, NOTHING. I'm not opposed or biased against H/N factories either. I feel that Angus is a EXCELLENT TD, and I would LOVE to support the product that he sells as he sold me the Noob. I do not like my Noob 164 but WOULD buy anything from him, as its not his fault I do not like the 164 I bought from him made by the Noob Factory. I purchased my 164 H from Andrew (not a TD on here, so I will not comment on him as a dealer at all)

The Noob cyclops is terrible. I have now had (2) 164 Noob crystals. The first 164 Noob I send back cause the cyclops was TERRIBLE. Ultra distorted, just the pits. I had debris under the crystal, and the QR buttons both popped out. When they sent it back the second cyclops is "almost" as bad as the first. Slightly better, but still distorted, way to much to make me ever recommend it. I rarely say stuff like this but I HATE the cyclops on the Noob 164. Its the worst I have ever had. I'd rather less magnification, then the terrible distortion. The day I got my 164 I lost both QR buttons for the strap. Why? They bounced out never to be found again. I got back the watch from repair and the QR strap button popped back out the second I used it again! Strap, terrible but IMHO most rep straps are. Its already been said the Noob dial is NOT accurate. WAY to white. Movement, has kept great time however. The movement has the exact same rotor spin feel as gen. Hate to tell you but the gen 164 is like a off balance washer/dryer on your wrist! lol The noob, just the same. Dial is nice and crisp, case, equal to H. I personally do not see ONE improvement in the Noob case vs H. However even after the bad review, I'd rebuy it in a second if the H factory didn't make one. We are a picky group of people. I don't think the cyclops is a picky issue. 2x I got horrible ones. Someone told me to compare the casebacks. They told me the CB on the Noob was better. I never cared enough to look, but I can when I'm not so busy. I'm not someone often concerned with the CB.

I bought the H version. Alls I can is, 10x better and I'm no longer sad I sold my gen. Perfect No, but perfect enough for me. The only thing the H factory has going for it that is a minor negative is the Date Font. Its thin. HOWEVER it doesn't bother me at all. One day I MAY change it I already had DSN send me a bold font one for it. But the crystal/cylops 1000000x better. I mean night and day. The numbers are a shade too gray under some light, but the Noob is way off color. CG snaps in place. Movement -/+ a few seconds a day. Not even noticeable on mine. May actually have a little less "shaky" rotor spin then the gen, or Noob. But I think most would find that to be better. I don't care either way. The strap the H comes with I do not wear. HOWEVER the strap is maybe the first pam leather strap that doesn't look or feel like it was made out of cardboard waste products.
Both deployants are good. The edges on the Noob were a tad bit sharper on mine for some reason. But both are perfect, and wear nice.
My vote H Factory on this one. I just don't think dollar for dollar its even a tough one at all. I have heard several times, buy the H factory, use the Noob case. I do not see the logic in this AT all.

 

[korneevy]

Wow. Thanks for honest review, Mr.RadioActive. Funnily enough, this is exactly the flaws my go-to dealer highlighted about the Noob version, interesting that he knows it so well (and he does not even carry 164 from Noob.

I assume as you haven't mentioned it, the QR buttons work still fine on your H factory?

The other things that I was told are wrong with the Nooob version include:
- BB numbers on CB are not live (unsure what it is?)
- Lume is not superlume and of wrong shade when charged
- Noob didnt have the 164 for replication but used a Pam 297 which is a GMT to make this one out of pics.

Coped with the crap cyclops, wrong dial and failing QR I think I going to go H-factory all the way.

Probably the 164 is not as good in Noob as their other releases, unfortunately. I have Noob 029, have been wearing it for other 8 months and still love it. Interestingly, somehow they manage to get the sapphire and cyclops right on their 029 but totally butchered it on 164. WTF? The world of reps is often logic-defying and this is a good example

 

[Ander7]

I will be glad to assist, I have owned a new AD purchased 164, a H 164, and a N 164.
Hands down out of the reps the H factory 164 is the clear winner.
The Noob cyclops is terrible.
I bought the H version. Alls I can is, 10x better and I'm no longer sad I sold my gen.

Wow, before I purchase my Noobs 164, I have already taken a look at your post as reference, as your name is mentioned in one of ALE's reference guide for 164. Your previous H & N factory comparsion post is not as way apart as per your currrent comment.

If I have seen your current comment a month ago, I wouldn't even dare to touch the Noobs 164.

Nevertheless, I don't observe any deviation on the cyclop for Noobs.

However, I do find the strap is inferior to a gen one. As for the deployant clasp, my view is differ from yours. It is not good, the quick releases button is not flush againist with it's mating surface. This not a major concerns as I intend to purchase a JV strap with buckle for replacement.

In view of above, it seem that what one get from each factory may not be the same standards. Just like the same watch from the same gen factory, we can't expect they are 100% same in all aspect. Some may also be inferior to the same batch that come out from the same gen factory.


Every Mechanical/Electrical component has a tolereance. If they fall within the tolerence, it mean meeting the print. So whom have the right to comment that there is a deviation if one does not have the blue print for confirmation and based solely on a few pieces of sample to drawn a conclusion?

 

[Ander7]

Seem like you have already known the answer in advance then. I wonder why you create this topic? To get assurance that Noobs is inferior to H factory on PAM164?

Just go with your heart lah. :lolcina:

Wow. Thanks for honest review, Mr.RadioActive. Funnily enough, this is exactly the flaws my go-to dealer highlighted about the Noob version, interesting that he knows it so well (and he does not even carry 164 from Noob.

I assume as you haven't mentioned it, the QR buttons work still fine on your H factory?

The other things that I was told are wrong with the Nooob version include:
- BB numbers on CB are not live (unsure what it is?)
- Lume is not superlume and of wrong shade when charged
- Noob didnt have the 164 for replication but used a Pam 297 which is a GMT to make this one out of pics.

Coped with the crap cyclops, wrong dial and failing QR I think I going to go H-factory all the way.

Probably the 164 is not as good in Noob as their other releases, unfortunately. I have Noob 029, have been wearing it for other 8 months and still love it. Interestingly, somehow they manage to get the sapphire and cyclops right on their 029 but totally butchered it on 164. WTF? The world of reps is often logic-defying and this is a good example

 

[korneevy]

Seem like you have already known the answer in advance then. I wonder why you create this topic?

I collected the information AFTER I made the post on various (not just RWI) fora and contacted a few dealers with same Qs. To start with, I was actually quite set on getting the Noob, however after getting feedback via these posts and PMs, totally changed my mind. I really dont care where the watch comes from (H/N/F/B/Y/Z factory )) as long as it is the best of what is currently available. In this respect, my post and info collections have been very useful in making up my mind..and hopefully will help others who are thinking of getting at this SAME model.

 

[Ander7]

You are very effective Within a day or 2 on your post, you can manage to receive answers from various forum and few dealers with same Qs.

BTW, does that the few dealers you have mentioned also carried Noobs? It will be subjective if they don't. If I am a dealer that carry H factory, will I comment that N factory watch is better than the one they carried? I am just trying to be objective, no hard feeling.

Why not contact Dealer that carry N factory by asking how good is the N one instead?

I also hope that your post will be useful, if it is not misleading the truth.

I collected the information AFTER I made the post on various (not just RWI) fora and contacted a few dealers with same Qs. To start with, I was actually quite set on getting the Noob, however after getting feedback via these posts and PMs, totally changed my mind. I really dont care where the watch comes from (H/N/F/B/Y/Z factory )) as long as it is the best of what is currently available. In this respect, my post and info collections have been very useful in making up my mind..and hopefully will help others who are thinking of getting at this SAME model.

 

[korneevy]

You are very effective ...

BTW, does that the few dealers you have mentioned also carried Noobs? ...


I also hope that your post will be useful, if it is not misleading the truth...

Yes I am effective. I want to make sure I spend my cash on a quality product. Stick around for a while and you will start understanding how often you buy a lemon, wait for V2, V3 etc etc...it happens more often when you might think. With prices of many reps pushing 400$-500$ mark (inc shipping), I spend extra time reading review and asking more knowledgeable people for advise. Works for me; may not work for you but everyone to his own, I guess.

Re: dealers - I buy from many dealer and like one or two more than the rest simply by my record dealing with them. They all carry or can get you exact same stuff from any factory. Some choose to focus on Noob, others have deals with H factory but they are sellers in the end and will sell you anything you desire. So yes, the dealers I spoke with ( 3 in total) have same selection, and only one does not carry this exact 164 from Noob due, as he puts it, "issue with quality"..but sells tons of other Noob stuff, mostly PAMs.

As for how informative this post is, I cant tell whether it is being leading or misleading or whatsoever as the feedback posted here and on other forums are from the folks who actually own these watches. I don't have this model yet so so it is up to you what you make of it and I, for one, certainly could not care less what you buy in the end.

Enjoy the fora...

 

[Ander7]

and I, for one, certainly could not care less what you buy in the end.

Enjoy the fora...

I take the lead to provide answer to your post (by register to this forum) as no one seem to provide any direct answer to u and, this the kind of "appreciation" I received from you.

Seem like I am kind of busy body in the end.

Well Done! Lesson Learnt :lol:

 

[ALE7575]

I also hope that your post will be useful, if it is not misleading the truth.

so it is up to you what you make of it and I, for one, certainly could not care less what you buy in the end.

Enjoy the fora...

Please guys
Keep polite !!!
This kind of comments are completely unnecessary and unpleasant
This is a hobby to enjoy it !! Not a word war !!
So, please be nice

ALE

 

[korneevy]

Please guys
Keep polite !!!
...
So, please be nice

ALE

Point taken ALE; I simply don't appreciate being accused of running some sort of a "certain factory" promotional agenda while this can't be further from the truth. Apologies if I sounded harsh and wasn't meant to be.

 

[ALE7575]

Point taken ALE; I simply don't appreciate being accused of running some sort of a "certain factory" promotional agenda while this can't be further from the truth. Apologies if I sounded harsh and wasn't meant to be.

No worries korn
Please don't ruin an intersting post
Just STOP

ALE

BTW: Already included in the PAM GUIDE

 

[korneevy]

Ok I think this has run its course. Thank you all for the input. Well I've decided to bite the bullet and ordered the H version of the thing. Will post photos and a quick review once I got it but as with all decent reps, if I see quality and like the watch, I will take it apart, service, waterproof and most likely replace the QR crapola with the spring bars as I normally do on all reps. Now the wait begins

 

[Mr.RadioActive]

As far as what factory makes my watch as well to me is no concern. If spending equal amts of money, I would rather the better of the two products. As a 25 year ++ rep collector I realize that there will be differences in gen vs rep. I'm perhaps a little less picky in some areas about watches then others.
Lets say deployant. If something isn't exactly as per gen I am not so super concerned. I would like it to be gen like, but I never take my rep off to show someone thats wearing the same gen watch and do a side by side. So if its not ultra crazy accurate, but pretty darn good I'm pleased. Lets say the Deployant buttons aren't "flush" as per gen. If the rep deployant is made of high quality parts, engraved nicely, wears comfortable, and never "Pops Open" and "closes correctly" to me that passes the test.
I don't always see things exactly like all in the rep community which is the reason forums are great. We all look at the same something and see things a bit different.

Korn, I know from your posts here, and RG that your a solid member with no ill intent.

The way I see it is, if the Noob factory, and TDs read these threads they will get info on how to make the new versions. It the Noob wants to fight back, correct the dial color, QR buttons, cyclops, and such and start taking sales from the H factory. At the end if factories battle it out who is better, we collectors win by getting better and better products!

 

[Ander7]

Please guys
Keep polite !!!
This kind of comments are completely unnecessary and unpleasant
This is a hobby to enjoy it !! Not a word war !!
So, please be nice

ALE

Hi ALE,

The reason why I comment "I also hope that your post will be useful, if it is not misleading the truth."Is not the intention for flaming. I do not has any better/kinder word to bring the message across.

I am a Principal Mechanical Engineer in machining field and a 6 sigma black belt. I was trained to drawn conclusion rationally with statistical backup. My 1st job, more than 20 yrs ago, was in the manufacturing of parts for a famous watch brand. This include the casing right from their base material.

What I can see from Mr. Radioactive major concerns is the cyclop and the poor mechanical fiitting issue. I believed that these 2 items are shared among all Noobs PAM watches. If it is so bad, we should be seeing such similar concerns across all the other similar design on other PAM models from them. I suspect that he may happen to get a repeated defective part from Noobs as mine was totally differ from those 2 major flaw which he has highlighted. If that is vaild, how can we compare a defective part from Noobs vs a good part from H? Rationally, if we want to drawn conclusion, we should be comparing Noobs good conditon 164 vs H good condition 164 instead.


When I 1st response to TS queries on his subject posting, he simply did not even made a comment or thanks. Look what after Mr. Radioactive post? This 1st statement is "Thanks for honest review" to him. So what make my review then? Unhonest? I smell something fishy. Kindly take note again, I registered to this forum is to provide information for him since no one other than you bother to response to him here, but not the intention to made any conflict
If I do not made the 1st move on posting my review on Noobs 164 to TS, I wonder whether Mr.Radioactive was aware and post his view here for TS to drawn his final conclusion. So, this is the kind of "appreciation" message I recieved from TS?


If I have TS mentality on " for one, certainly could not care less what you buy in the end,"I won't even bother to register here and provide feedback to him on my very 1st post.

 

[Ander7]

BTW: Already included in the PAM GUIDE

Seem like my concerns (pontentially misleading on Noobs 164 to other pontential buyer) has already been arisen.

The reason why I have highlighted pontentially is because I have yet to observe same conclusion as drawn by other owners of latest version of Noobs 164 comments here.