Improvements to Panerai Rep Movements - P.3000 and P.2002

[Ruski91]

Hey everyone, i wanted to start a thread discussing the improvements to movements that we are seeing these days in our PAM replicas. Let me start off by saying that i fully understand that these are not clones of the panerai in-house movements, just decorated asian movements. However, that being said we are getting closer and closer, are we not.

Specifically i wanted to ask our experts about this movement that KW has most recently released, P.2002/7

It certainly looks a lot better than what we have seen before, but some members are claiming it is a smaller movement and not accurate in terms of size.

Then i saw someone post this, which got me even more interested (Seems like a P.2002/3 or 5 but who is it by or where is it from, it has an incabloc as opposed to the KW version ?):

So that being said, can any experts chime in on the movements that are currently being worked on by the makers/factories/brilliant minds overseas.
I know that true clones are far away, but in this year alone we have now seen a new design for the P.3000, p.9000, P.9001. p.2002, & p.5000

What is next ... what can we expect in the coming months and or year.

Ale, Klockis, mysterio, Karesz, PeteM and all PAM experts please chime in here ...

 

[ALE7575]

Hi Ruski
Thanks for starting this thread.
This is an interesting matter

I really thought to publish a thread about that, explaining all decorated versions of Panerai Manifattura movements.

I will try to prepare something about P.2002 as soon as possible

As you said, since these movements are Asian decorated they have a lot of limitations to get the layout and appearance of the gen PAMs

The most evident are the position of Balance Wheel and usually the bridge to support this balance called Balance cock.

Panerai has made its movements with positions of BW different to standard models in the market. And the support of this Balance is usually inverted or with a very particular shape.

In this way it is impossible to get a real accuracy with the current movements in the market. We will be able to build better decorations and better finished, decoration plates better finished and nicely brushed, real decoration jewels, perfect inscriptions, better fixed plates, BUT IN THIS WAY WE NEVER WILL GET ACCURACY

Many people are saying these decorated movements are good and big steps to the real clones.
I COMPLETElY DISAGREE
If we accept (and we are accepting them, myself included) decorated movements, makers will not start the expensive and risky project of a real clon.

Decorated movements are not step to the real clone, are steps top stop temporarily the project of them.

Maybe this is a necessary step before the new projects, but we really need to push makers to get the real clone

I am honestly starting to get a bit bored with these decorated movements which really are not accurate and mean an obvious flaw in a good replica.

They are, of course better and nicer than non decorated movements, indeed I have bought almost all decorated replicas released in last months.
Anyway, they are the best way nowadays and we are living a nice period with awesome replicas.

But at this moment I am already feeling a hole, I'm missing the accuracy and I'm feeling that in this way we will never get it.
I cannot avoid having the sensation that we are in a wrong and endless way to the accuracy
And leaving aside the issues to come from unstuck decoration plates

We must to push makers and dealers to start the projects of real clones and that will be the real progress

A bit spoilsport? Sorry, I have said that I'm buying almost all decorated replicas, but those are my current thoughts.

ALE

 

[Ruski91]

Ale, I completely agree with your logic in terms of our acceptance of decorated movements. But when compared to the bare 7750 and seagulls its clear we are all willing to jump at the opportunity to own something nicer, and in our case that something nicer for now can only be decorated plates. I am sure once i have my first gen to compare it too, the 388 i have will seem like crappy rep, but for now its amazing

Can you provide any insight for the second movement that I posted? I have seen pics of this movement pop up here and there but no concrete info?

 

[shungoh]

I believe movement is somewhere where we will almost never see a true 1:1 copy..... and therefore decorated may be the furthest it may go....
There has to be a balance between price point and reliability in movements and somemore to add an element of copying......
As far as I know companies such as Tianjin Seagull has produced *similar* looking movements which are decently cheap and reliable... But as a company of their size I think it does not make sense for them to copy a 1:1 movement of an established luxury brand, which might stain reputation and get costly lawsuits... Smaller movement making companies might try to go the route of copying a 1:1 movement to make a quick buck from the replica watch industry, but I as a consumer can't ever trust reliability of their movements....

Complicated movements of watches were made to keep time more accurately after all, and thus I consider the exterior replica (Lume, bezel , hands etc) to be as close to the original as possible... Of course the decoration of movement still matters, but I would rather have it run accurately and have a long lifespan than sacrificing these two aspects for a (more similar to original) design.

Just my two cents Please correct me if any of my assumptions are wrong , I would like to know other's opinions too!!