I just don't see it

[COLDI]

All the hype on the 417. The lugs suck which honestly make it sit funny on my wrist. And the Cg is a step back two or more years. This "gen" feel I don't get either. I've worn gen Pam's and APs and I have to say I don't see what people are saying about the gen feel. It's a fun watch but not worth more than a 111n IMO.

But what's a thread without a few pics

 

[Strodda]

Not bad, but I'm just not a fan of the sausage. IMO, sandwich dials offer a cleaner look.

 

[marlin2284]

All the hype on the 417. The lugs suck which honestly make it sit funny on my wrist. And the Cg is a step back two or more years. This "gen" feel I don't get either. I've worn gen Pam's and APs and I have to say I don't see what people are saying about the gen feel. It's a fun watch but not worth more than a 111n IMO.

+1

A lot of hype lately about the KWs 417 and 312??

If I am here to help the membership and give honest guidance, I must agree with COLDI about the fact that the watches are a bit expensive for no particular reason except for all the hype.

Everyone is going to hate me for this, but where the 417 a good rep even a super rep, the 312 falls way short and screams rep. With unpolished and recessed CP and though a pretty plated A7750 movement it still a bad fake with faux non functioning and off centered escapement wheel, it just screams fake. IMHO not worth all the hype or the expensive price tag.......

 

[Fiddo]

The 417 is a nice watch. However, the CG and the lugs "bother" me as well. It seems both should be a easy fix, though.

 

[Perry]

I have many rep Pams....mostly noobs.....243, 187, 026, 127, 217, 292 pig, 288 H factory 360, 164, 242J. I find the 217 from Kuvarsit to be the best in terms of gen look/feel. Are there differences vs the gen...yes. Is the watch finished closer to a gen than any of my other rep Pams....YES.

 

[Arancini]

Interesting thoughts Marlin re: the Kw 312.

I have the non-KW, previous 7750 edition and am seriously thinking to just hold onto it if the only difference is a better looking caseback with plate.

Would have thought the lume, AR, construction and general finish on the KW is superior to this one?

http://www.ttw888.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=37_49&products_id=7596

 

[watchman12345]

They were seriously hyped up, and from day 1 I didn't see why. The crystal was supposed to be "gen spec" and it's not... Nice watch, but no better than the best of the rest.

 

[Kleen]

They were seriously hyped up, and from day 1 I didn't see why. The crystal was supposed to be "gen spec" and it's not.

I think that one is still up for debate...

 

[ALE7575]

I'm writing here due I'm in some way the starter of the hype (or one of the starters).

But I don't change my opinion and the opinion of many people here. I repeat I'm not talking about accuracy, we will speak anbout that in the final review. Klockis and I know now every corner and angle of this KW watch, Noob and H maker, and you will see all that with detail when Klockis and I publish the final review. I continue talking about gen feel. But it is not me, many people are talking about even all people that I consult thing the same (the most part). Therefore, there is something with this watch.
Many of my friends who don't like replicas asked me for a KW 417 (without previous comments from me)
Of course you can have different opinions about that and we are here for that.

Concerning price, it is worth ? This is a personal taste.
It is worth a mod of 500-700€ to get a replica less different to the gen? Many people think yes and others think no. It is normal.

Please bera in mind I'm talking about KW PAM Boutique 417, 411 and 416.
I have not seen yet the PAM 312. I hope next week.
At this moment my preferred PAM rep. Three weeks in my wrist. Just a record

ALE

 

[ALE7575]

+1

A lot of hype lately about the KWs 417 and 312??

If I am here to help the membership and give honest guidance, I must agree with COLDI about the fact that the watches are a bit expensive for no particular reason except for all the hype.

Everyone is going to hate me for this, but where the 417 a good rep even a super rep, the 312 falls way short and screams rep. With unpolished and recessed CP and though a pretty plated A7750 movement it still a bad fake with faux non functioning and off centered escapement wheel, it just screams fake. IMHO not worth all the hype or the expensive price tag.......

Marlin, please bera in mind we are talking about KW PAM Boutique 417, 411 and 416.

I have not seen yet the PAM 312. I hope next week.
Wlthout having see it I agree with your comments about movement, Fake of course, but I don't know yet if it is worth the price


ALE

 

[ALE7575]

The crystal was supposed to be "gen spec" and it's not...

What are you talking about?

Following the last studies most likeley the KW crystal is exactly the same as gen if not a gen or produced by a gen maker.
Did you know it?

This matter is becoming really boring for me...
I think it would be better to keep ourselves in the current productions Noob V3 and H maker and don't get evolution.
We always have indicated to makers the mods to make to get better replicas, and nowadays we have a very good level at good prices.
Could not do the same with KW to get improvements and get still better replicas? Don't you realize that many flaws from KW are easily rectifiable?
What's happens?
Sorry

ALE

 

[marlin2284]

I'm writing here due I'm in some way the starter of the hype (or one of the starters).

But I don't change my opinion and the opinion of many people here. I repeat I'm not talking about accuracy, we will speak anbout that in the final review. Klockis and I know now every corner and angle of this KW watch, Noob and H maker, and you will see all that with detail when Klockis and I publish the final review. I continue talking about gen feel. But it is not me, many people are talking about even all people that I consult thing the same (the most part). Therefore, there is something with this watch.
Many of my friends who don't like replicas asked me for a KW 417 (without previous comments from me)
Of course you can have different opinions about that and we are here for that.

Concerning price, it is worth ? This is a personal taste.
It is worth a mod of 500-700€ to get a replica less different to the gen? Many people think yes and others think no. It is normal.

Please bera in mind I'm talking about KW PAM Boutique 417, 411 and 416.
I have not seen yet the PAM 312. I hope next week.
At this moment my preferred PAM rep. Three weeks in my wrist. Just a record

ALE

Ale,

I agree with you on the Boutique series watches they are fine pieces of work, my main thing is the display case back watch and the accuracy of the movement on the 312. Once flipped over it screams fake with a non moving, off center escapement wheel which is suppose to be one of the gen watch's main feature. It also looks like the CP is sunk on several QC pics, so not only do you need to spend a hefty some to buy the thing, then you have to send it to a modder to get it fixed and spend more.

Don't get me wrong when I first saw the watch I almost wet my pants it was so beautiful, and I thought, finally they have come up with a new movement to rep! But upon calming myself down and examining it further I noticed what most newer members wouldn't, and felt compelled to let the membership know my thoughts.

I guess I am a little different than most, I look for a rep that is as close to gen as possible otherwise why spend the money, the reps that are close to gen always keep there value and the ones not so much fall by the wayside. I am just putting my opinion out there before too many members spend there money and then are disappointed with the results they receive.

My suggestion with any newly introduced rep is to wait for people like you to review it and give (as you always do) your honest opinion on the watch with many intricate details, then make an educated choice.

 

[ALE7575]

Ale,

I agree with you on the Boutique series watches they are fine pieces of work, my main thing is the display case back watch and the accuracy of the movement on the 312. Once flipped over it screams fake with a non moving, off center escapement wheel which is suppose to be one of the gen watch's main feature. It also looks like the CP is sunk on several QC pics, so not only do you need to spend a hefty some to buy the thing, then you have to send it to a modder to get it fixed and spend more.

Don't get me wrong when I first saw the watch I almost wet my pants it was so beautiful, and I thought, finally they have come up with a new movement to rep! But upon calming myself down and examining it further I noticed what most newer members wouldn't, and felt compelled to let the membership know my thoughts.

I guess I am a little different than most, I look for a rep that is as close to gen as possible otherwise why spend the money, the reps that are close to gen always keep there value and the ones not so much fall by the wayside. I am just putting my opinion out there before too many members spend there money and then are disappointed with the results they receive.

My suggestion with any newly introduced rep is to wait for people like you to review it and give (as you always do) your honest opinion on the watch with many intricate details, then make an educated choice.

Marlin my friend no need of explanations between you and me
You understand perfectly what I said and vice versa.


But this thread was started by COLDI giving his respectable and valuable opinion about PAM 417 and people can think you are talking about this watch, when you are mainly talking about PAM 312.

I'm going to receive the PAM 312 sample next week. And I will see directly in person all things you and myself are worried about.
All people know about my reticence about decorated movements. I know and I have said many times that they are really decorations and not clones of the gen mvmts. They are cosmetic steps not stpes to the clone

I also know that KW has made an effort at this regard getting a very well finished and nice decoration, but at last a decoration. Even KW has introduce some faux elements to get a mvmnt more close to the gen. But maybe introducing a fix and faux escapment wheel is too much.
I'm very concerned about that regarding the quality of this watch on which I had a lot of expectations.
I agree at this regard completely with you
Anyway being the complete movement with inverted layout we can just expect a medium accuracy.

Thanks always for your comments

ALE

 

[Kleen]

I'm slightly sceptical of the 312 as well: Not so much about the case, dial or even finishing - but more regarding the 'cover-up' of the 7750-movement (which is all we can expect as far as I am concerned). I'm currrently trying to decide whether it is better to have a 'close-to-gen' attempt at this, or just leave it at being obviously wrong as in the previous versions...

 

[ALE7575]

I'm slightly sceptical of the 312 as well: Not so much about the case, dial or even finishing - but more regarding the 'cover-up' of the 7750-movement (which is all we can expect as far as I am concerned). I'm currrently trying to decide whether it is better to have a 'close-to-gen' attempt at this, or just leave it at being obviously wrong as in the previous versions...

Well, better it realy is better obviously an approach
But it really is worth ?

But I think we are confusing people, becuase this is a thread about PAM 417 and we are tali¡king about PAM 312

Please make these comments in the thread about PAM 312

PLEASE

ALE

 

[Kleen]

@ ALE: I agree - but it just seems that most people seeking buying advice are trying to view the 'new generation' of KW-PAMs as a whole, therefore leading to the generic conclusion that they are 'all better' or 'all-the-same'.

I think this is a huge mistake that needs to be stopped, or at least - kept cool until further investigation of the individual differences has been conducted...

 

[COLDI]

I did find this picture of a gen (at least I assume it is).


It seems to have the same gap as the KW pam.
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f75/panerai-pam-417-a-727364.html

 

[Perry]

I have the kv 417 as I noted in previous posts. Once again Ale is totally correct.....the kv 417 is finished like a gen ultra high quality watch. No surface swirls in-between the lugs, perfect fit and finish etc. That does not mean the lugs may be a mm off size or some other dimension is ever so slight off size vs the gen. It's the best finished rep Pam...heck probably the best finished rep watch I have ever owned....and I've owned hundreds rep and gen.

 

[ALE7575]

I did find this picture of a gen (at least I assume it is).


It seems to have the same gap as the KW pam.
http://forums.watchuseek.com/f75/panerai-pam-417-a-727364

Sorry COLDI
What do you mean?
Gap? where?
Please clarify

Besides
There are two pics:

Second one is clearly a gen, seeing the lume application, no doubts.

First one has not definition enough to say it.
Even could be a H maker.See the CG and the bezel which has not rounded transition edge.
Anyway not enough definition to assure it.

ALE

 

[ALE7575]

I have the kv 417 as I noted in previous posts. Once again Ale is totally correct.....the kv 417 is finished like a gen ultra high quality watch. No surface swirls in-between the lugs, perfect fit and finish etc. That does not mean the lugs may be a mm off size or some other dimension is ever so slight off size vs the gen. It's the best finished rep Pam...heck probably the best finished rep watch I have ever owned....and I've owned hundreds rep and gen.

Pleople are assuming that lugs of KW are wrong because they are making comparisons with Noob lugs instead of with the GEN.
KW lugs have the hole of lug screw in a wrong position OK. but concerning shape we would need to get comparisons to the GEN.
We will see that in the final review.

Most likely Noob lugs could be wrong too in other diferent place.
We will see.

ALE