Help please!

[copiadah]

HI everyone,

First of all want to say how amazing this website is and how passionate everyone seems. So been reading a lot of different forums here but no one seems to have answered this question in a few years, and I'm hoping something has changed(because the last time it was brought up the answer was that there are no good ones).
I'm looking to buy the best quality Replica of a Panerai 393(Rose Gold- 42mm). I will change the band to genuine alligator so the band does not concern me, but really really need help with this.

1. Will the Rose Gold plating on any of the reps stay for at least a few years? Or is there a rep company that sells fully rose gold as opposed to plated?
2. Can someone please show me the best quality one I could buy? Here are the ones I've found so far;

http://www.intime.co/panerai/1638-pam393-o-ladies-rg-brown-dial-on-brown-leather-strap-p9000.html
http://www.intime.co/panerai/2497-p...est-edition-on-brown-leather-strap-p9000.html
http://www.torobravos.xyz/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=pam+393&product_id=1895
http://www.torobravos.xyz/index.php?route=product/product&keyword=pam+393&product_id=1233

Like are any of these a true perfect replica? IS there a better rep out there?

Thank you so so much!

 

[ALE7575]

All the answers are already in PAM GUIDE:

"Reference PAM REVIEW-GUIDE" - Replica Search, Identification, Evaluation & Selection.
https://forum.replica-watch.info/vb...earch-Identification-Evaluation-amp-Selection

Anyway, you can see below the extract for PAM 393

EVALUATIONS:
LOW GRADE REP - ( ZFac P-series w/decorated A7750 NON-inverted ZP9000-V2- wrong diameter 44mm )
GOOD REP - ( Unknown maker- O-series w/decorated A7750 Inverted ZFac type )
LOW GRADE REP - ( ZFac P-series w/decorated A7750 NON-inverted Imporoved ZP9000-V2.5 - wrong diameter 44mm)
GOOD REP bordering First Class status – ( KW-V6Fac Q-series w/decorated Seagull NON-inverted KP9000-Seagull V2 )
GOOD REP bodering First Class status- ( ZFac O-series w/decorated A7750 NON-inverted Improved ZP9000-V2.5 )

The gen PAM 393, a Luminor Marina 1950 42mm with Red Gold case, was released in 2012 O-series together with the PAM 392, with the same case but made of SS. Both watches feature seconds subdial @9 (like all Marina models) and date window @3.
Like PAM 312-359-505 and other PAMs with the same complications, PAM 392 and 393 are equipped with the in-house P.9000 automatic calibre, which beats at 28,800 alternations/hour or 4Hz with 3-day power reserve. This nice movement can be seen through a display sapphire caseback.
Both watches have contrasted brushed case with mirror polished bezel and are fitted with a brushed REG.- T.M. engraved Panerai trademark Crown Guard. The tang buckle is polished as well.
This more dressy version PAM 393 is made of an especial red gold alloy with a high content of Copper, to get a clearly reddish colour, and a 4% of Platinum to get shine and corrosion resistance. I can say that this gold has a nice colour and it has an impressive appearance, far from a regular yellow gold or conventional rose gold alloy.
The PAM 393 has brown Sandwich dial while PAM 392, its SS counter part, has black Sandwich dial.
PAM 393 is essentially a reduced version of PAM 312 but made of Red Glod. To get the balance of the dial right, Panerai had to take out “9” hour marker. The dial looks overall more balanced without the “9” since there was no “3” due to the date wheel in this place.
Most PAMs always have been +44mm in terms of the case size. But in 2012 at SIHH, Panerai introduced these 42mm 1950 Luminor (model PAM 392 and 393). This move was made to satisfy the demands from small wrist people, since 40mm models had no success enough.
It is not just the diameter that has changed in size, but also the thickness. Some people have found PAM 312 and other 44mm Luminor 1950 to be unusually chunky even for a 44mm PAM, due to the 1950 shape case. Since these new models are thinner and smaller, they definitely will feel way more comfortable.
People thinking their PAM was too big to wear with a suit, this piece will give them the option to get a more discrete watch.
Although some 'purists' say that this piece breaks the tradition of Luminor models since it's smaller, non-44mm model, it still definitely embraces all the qualities and characters of a PAM. What's better is that it is a very wearable piece that is not only comfy and versatile but also overall more balanced.
GEN PAM 393 TECHNICAL DETAILS
MOVEMENT- Automatic mechanical, Panerai P.9000 calibre, executed entirely by Panerai, 13¾ lignes, 7.9 mm thick, 28 jewels, Glucydur® balance, 28,800 alternations/hour. Incabloc® anti-shock device. Power reserve 3 days, two barrels. 197 components.
FUNCTIONS- Hours, minutes, small seconds, date.
CASE- Diameter 42 mm, 18 ct. brushed red gold.
BEZEL- 18 ct. polished red gold.
BACK- See-through sapphire crystal.
DEVICE PROTECTING THE CROWN- (protected as a trademark) 18 ct. brushed red gold.
DIAL- Brown with luminous Arabic numerals and hour markers. Date at 3 o’clock, seconds at 9 o’clock.
CRYSTAL- Sapphire, formed of corundum, 1.8 mm thick. Anti-reflective coating.
WATER-RESISTANCE- 5 bar (~50 metres).
STRAP- PANERAI personalised alligator strap and 18 ct. brushed red gold buckle. Supplied with a steel screwdriver.


-PAM 393 ZFac P-series w/decorated A7750 NON-inverted ZP9000-V2-(wrong diameter 44mm)
September 2014- ZFac releases a rep of PAM 393 P-series with wrong 44mm caseback. It actually is not a mistake, but ZFac is using its Luminor 1950 44mm SS cases to make this PAM 393, just gold plating them.
These reps are nicely made, but obviously they are a “fantasy” wath, completely inaccurate due to a bigger case. They are fitted with the new non-inverted layout P.9000 decorated A7750 movement ZP9000-V2. Since the case is not the same, this version has not interest as a rep, and we will not make more comments. Evaluation : Low grade rep.


-PAM 393 Unknown maker- O-series w/decorated A7750 Inverted ZFac type
October 2014- It is released from an unknown maker a rep PAM 393 O-series with a correct case Luminor 1950 42mm. This version is fitted with the already known ZFac decorated A7750 with inverted layout and balance wheel @11 instead of @7.

DECORATED ZFac TYPE MOVEMENT A7750 LIKE PANERAI P.9000 -WITH FALSE ESCAPEMENT WHEEL

This watch has a correct manufacture and overall is quite correct, but has some evident flaws.
Of course, leaving aside the movement and the CG, the obvious flaw would be the material. Rep is made of SS red gold plated and the gen with a very especial alloy reddish and brilliant (due to the high grade of Platinum). Rep cannot be as reddish as gen without lose a lot of corrosion properties due to the lack of Platinum, for this reason this rep has more yellowish colour. The weight will be clearly smaller than gen.
Dial layout is more accurate than expected, with correct inscriptions and accurate markers (“6” marker is a bit more open in rep). Date fonts are a bit bolder but accurate enough.
Sandwich dial is well made with correct cutouts, maybe a bit less deep than gen. Hands are nice and CP seems polished and flattened and with the size like gen.
Crystal is good enough with nice and little bevelled like gen.
Crown guard is the most serious flaw. The finish is really bad and the rounded edges of the sides of the hollow are uneven. The upper part of the CG hollow has a very inaccurate shape far from the angle of the gen. It has a straight shape with an ugly and inaccurate circular cut at the center. This is a noticeable flaw and maybe the most serious of this rep. Roller and roller support are ugly and inaccurate, and lever tip is thinner, inaccurate and very detached from the case and really ugly. Sloppy made CG pin. REG. and T.M. fonts are narrower and they are not well defined and way less sharp than gen. Chamfered corners are uneven and far from the gen nice chamfered.
Case and lugs are good but far from the accuracy of the Luminor 1950 44mm case, cushion shape is more squared and edges are less sharp. You can tell the rep case knowing the gen shape
Caseback is nicely engraved but with inaccurate fonts. Production number, mainly “O” of O-series, are really bad and inaccurate.
Movement, as already known, is nice but obviously inaccurate in layout, inscriptions and balance wheel position.
I have to say that this rep is better than I expected after seeing the inaccurate CG and lever and the “O” on caseback. But it cannot achieve, in my opinion, the First Class status. I would say a very good rep nicely made, leaving aside the CG and lever, and good enough for people not too picky and having small wrist. People will easily admit the wrong weight and the inaccurate gold colour, but to buy this rep you should be able to live with the really noticeable inaccurate CG shape and ugly lever.
With a correct CG shape and chamfered, better lever and better caseback engravings it could get a First Class evaluation but bordering a lower status, maybe next time.
More info here:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php?t=199381 by straycat
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=240600 by Daddyoftwo


-PAM 393 ZFac P-series w/decorated A7750 NON-inverted Imporoved ZP9000-V2.5 (wrong diameter 44mm)
Junio 2015- ZFac releases a rep of PAM 393 P-series again with wrong 44mm caseset. It actually is not a mistake, but ZFac is using its Luminor 1950 44mm SS cases to make this PAM 393, just gold plating them.
These reps are nicely made, but obviously they are a “fantasy” wath, completely inaccurate due to a bigger case. This new versioin is fitted with the new NON-inverted layout P.9000 decorated A7750 movement and Improved ZP9000-V2.5. Since the case is not the same, this version has not interest as a rep, and we will not make more comments. Evaluation : Low grade rep.


-PAM 393 KW-V6Fac Q-series w/decorated Seagull NON-inverted KP9000-Seagull V2
January 2015- KW-V6Fac released a rep PAM 393 Q-series, obviously made of SS gold coated. This rep is fitted with a KP9000-Seagull V2 decorated movement like P.9000 with correct NON-inverted layout based on Seagull ST2555. Since this movement is Seagull based, the balance wheel is placed @6 instead of @7 like gen movement and is much bigger than gen. This placement @6 is an advantage over the A7750 based movements, because it is closer to gen placement @7 than in A7750 which have the balance wheel @11. This movement has correct layout the same as gen. Bridges shape is not yet a mirror image of the gen but a copy of the gen bridges shape. Balance cock orientation is now exactly the same as gen. In the same way the inscriptions are placed and oriented just like gen. This NON-inverted layout is achieved by a technical trick: Maker has used a false decoration of balance cock in the same orientation as gen. In this case maker has not reduced the real balance cock, just like ZFac improved V2.5 and KW NON-inverted decorations, and leaves it hidden under the regulation device and the false escapement wheel. It is really enough, because you cannot see the real balance cock without a close inspection and always knowing this matter, anyway it is more visible than in A7750 based movements. This avoids the possible problems produced by the reduction of the real balance cock. As above commented maker has used a false decoration of balance cock in the same orientation as gen has, in this movement the shape of this decoration balance cock is much more accurate than ZFac V2, very similar to ZFac improved V2.5 and KW V2. In this way the movement main bridges can get a layout the same as the gen watch, with bridges inscriptions placed in correct orientation. The brushing and finish are very good, better than in ZFac movements.
Bridges inscriptions have accurate fonts. The finish, colour and thickness of fonts are accurate enough but a bit thicker and worse than ZFac inscriptions and with some variations between batches. But we have to say that ZFac movements have overall better inscriptions, even in the rotor, with thin fonts, sharp and well defined engravings.
The overall layout is correct, but the accuracy of inscription positions, in relation with the case, is impossible because, as above said, rep balance wheel is placed @6, then all inscriptions are displaced due to that, but much less than in A7750 based movements where the balance wheel is placed @11. This movement has a shape and size of the balance wheel “hole” very accurate, but smaller than A7750 based movements and gen, getting a great gen-like appearance but inferior than A7750 movements.
With above mentioned features this KP9000-Seagull V2 movement has overall better accuracy than previous versions, making this movement the most accurate decorated based P.9000 starting 2015 with advantage over the A7750 based decorations either Zfac V2.5 or KW V2. Besides Seagull movement is cheaper and overall more reliable.
Although above improvements always bear in mind that, despite these movements have NON-inverted layout, they still have the balance wheel placed @6 instead of @7 like gen.
Below is showed movement KP9000-Seagull V2 in comparison with the gen. Pic at the center shows the movement in the same alignment (see the crowns). The Pic at the right side shows the rep movement rotated to match the position of the gen balance wheel.

GEN P.9000 – KW-V6Fac DECORATED SEAGULL NON-INVERTED COMPARISON
Center- WATCHES IN THE SAME POSITION
Right side-WATCHES ROTATED TO GET MATCHING. See the crowns in different position

As you can see in above pic, everything is placed in the same orientation but in different position from gen and the balance wheel zone (balance wheel “hole” and decoration of balance cock) seems in this movement much more accurate than in ZFAc V2, very similar to ZFac V2.5 and KW V2.
DIAL- Very good layout without remarkable flaws. Accurate fonts and the sandwich cutouts are fine. Inscriptions are accurate. Date wheel and date window are well placed but fonts are smaller and a bit thicker than gen.
MATERIAL- Obviously the rep is made of SS gold coated whereas gen is solid Red Gold. Duration and weight are far from the gen
CASESET- Mid case has fatter lug shape, with the flat base bigger than gen and much more marked, besides the upper part of the lugs is placed closer to the cushion shape edge than in gen. Cushion shape looks good but a bit more squared. Bezel and crystal look like gen. kW-V6Fac caseset is better finished but less accurate than ZFac.
CROWN GUARD- it is not as perfect as gen but looks really nice. The inner angled edge (parallel to the crown) is almost like gen and better than in ZFac version. CG pin is correct. Lever is accurate enough. REG. and T.M. engravings are really good and accurate. Chamfered corners are not as uniform as gen but look good.
HANDS- Accurate shape but the hour hand is clearly longer than gen. Very noticeable. ZFac has more accurate hands.
CANNON PINION- It is nicely finished and very accurate, better than ZFac.
LUME- it is correct and uniform
CASEBACK- it is a bit fatter than gen and the engravings have not perfect fonts and are sallower but are accurate at real size. Layout is good enough but worse than in ZFac version.

This rep is a good attempt from KW-V6Fac but has still some flaws and the case of Luminor 1950 42mm is not at all as accurate as 44mm. Besides the material of the watch is an obvious tell. We can evaluate this rep as Good rep bordering First Class status. It is better finished than ZFac but in my opinion KW-V6Fac is a bit inferior.
More info here:
http://forum.replica-watch.info/vb/showthread.php?t=208549 by sinmotion
http://www.repgeek.com/showthread.php?t=246347 by repgee


-PAM 393 ZFac O-series w/decorated A7750 NON-inverted Improved ZP9000-V2.5
December 2015- ZFac released a rep PAM 393 O-series, obviously made of SS gold coated. This rep is fitted with the ZP9000-V2.5 improved decorated movement like P.9000 with correct NON-inverted layout still based on A7750, but improved in relation with the previous version V2. Since this movement is A7750 based, the balance wheel is much bigger than gen and it is still placed @11 instead of @7 like gen movement, but it has correct layout the same as gen. Bridges shape is not yet a mirror image of the gen but a copy of the gen bridges shape. Balance cock orientation is now exactly the same as gen. In the same way the inscriptions are placed and oriented just like gen. This NON-inverted layout is achieved by a technical trick: Maker has used a false decoration of balance cock in the same orientation as gen, the same as previous version, but in this case maker has not reduced the real balance cock, just like KW decorations, and leaves it hidden under the regulation device and the false escapement wheel. It is really enough, because you cannot see the real balance cock without a close inspection and always knowing this matter. This is the first improvement, avoiding the possible problems produced by the reduction of the real balance cock. As above commented maker has used a false decoration of balance cock in the same orientation as gen has, but in this movement the shape of this decoration balance cock is much more accurate than previous one, this is the second improvement. In this way the movement main bridges can get a layout the same as the gen watch, with bridges inscriptions placed in correct orientation. The brushing and finish are good, but not as nicely made as in KW decorations.
Bridges inscriptions are more accurate in fonts and better defined than inverted version. We have to say that the new ZP9000-V2.5 has very nice inscriptions, even in the rotor, with thin fonts, sharp and well defined and in my opinion clearly better than previous inverted versions from ZFac or KW.
The overall layout is correct, but the accuracy of inscription positions, in relation with the case, is impossible because, as above said, rep balance wheel is placed @11, then all inscriptions are displaced due to that. In this movement maker has introduced another improvement modifying the shape of bridges decoration to get a rep balance wheel “hole” almost the same as gen. With above mentioned improvements this ZP9000-V2.5 movement has better accuracy than previous version, making this movement the most accurate decorated A7750 based P.9000 starting 2015 together with the KW decorated P.9000 NON-inverted KP9000-V2.
Those are significant improvements but always bear in mind that, although these movements have NON-inverted layout, they still have the balance wheel placed @11 instead of @7 like gen.
Bellow is showed New movement ZP9000-V2.5 in comparison with the gen. Pic at the center shows the movement in the same alignment (see the crowns). The Pic at the right side shows the rep movement rotated to match the position of the gen balance wheel.

GEN P.9000 - ZFAC DECORATED A7750 IMPROVED NON-INVERTED ZP9000-V2.5 COMPARISON
Center- WATCHES IN THE SAME POSITION
Right side-WATCHES ROTATED TO GET MATCHING. See the crowns in different position

As you can see in above pic, everything is placed in the same orientation but in different position from gen and the balance wheel zone (balance wheel “hole” and decoration of balance cock) seems in this movement much more accurate than in ZFAc V2.
DIAL- Very good layout without remarkable flaws. Accurate fonts and the sandwich cutouts are fine. Inscriptions are accurate but a bit white in comparison to the gen. Date wheel and date window are well placed but fonts are smaller than gen.
MATERIAL- Obviously the rep is made of SS gold coated whereas gen is solid Red Gold. Duration and weight are far from the gen
CASESET- Mid case has accurate lug shape but the upper part of the lugs is placed closer to the cushion shape edge than in gen. Cushion shape looks good. Bezel and crystal look like gen.
CROWN GUARD- it is not as perfect as gen but looks nice. The inner angled edge (parallel to the crown) is less angled than gen. CG pin is correct. Lever is accurate enough with a tip a bit fatter than gen. REG. and T.M. engravings are not at all perfect. Chamfered corners are not as uniform as gen but look good.
HANDS- Accurate shape and length.
CANNON PINION- Although is nicely finished, CP is the weird and ugly ZFac with raised rim contour. It looks bigger than gen. I don’t like it
LUME- it is correct and uniform
CASEBACK- it is a bit fatter than gen and the engravings have not perfect fonts and are sallower but are accurate at real size. Layout is more or less correct

This rep is a good attempt from ZFzac but has still some flaws and the case of Luminor 1950 42mm is not at all as accurate as 44mm. Besides the material of the watch is an obvious tell. We can evaluate this rep as Good rep bordering First Class status.


PAM 393
REPLICA links:
-ZFac P-series w/decorated A7750 NON-inverted ZP9000-V2-(wrong diameter 44mm)
http://puretime.watch/product/pam393-p-xl-44mm-zf-brown-dial-on-brown-leather-strap-zp9000/
http://www.tswatchltd.com/15823-pa15823-pam393-p-xl-44mm-zf-brown-dial-ss-lt-ap9000.html
http://www.intime.co/panerai/1568-pam393-p-xl-44mm-zf-brown-dial-on-brown-leather-strap-zp9000.html

-Unknown maker- O-series w/decorated A7750 Inverted ZFac type
http://puretime.watch/product/pam393-o-ladies-rg-brown-dial-on-brown-leather-strap-p9000/
http://www.tswatchltd.com/15957-pa15957-pam393-o-42mm-zf-brown-dial-ss-lt-ap9000.htmlhttp://www.torobravo2015.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1233
http://www.intime.co/panerai/1638-pam393-o-ladies-rg-brown-dial-on-brown-leather-strap-p9000.html
http://www.ttw8488.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=352&products_id=12477

-ZFac P-series w/decorated A7750 NON-inverted Imporoved ZP9000-V2.5 (wrong diameter 44mm)
http://www.torobravo2015.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1560

-KW-V6Fac P-series w/decorated Seagull NON-inverted KP9000-Seagull V2
http://www.kuvarsitwatch.co/kw-products/panerai/best-edition-panerai-pam393-p.9000-42mm-..-1-1-from-kw/
http://puretime01.com/pam393-p-lite-ladies-v6f-11-best-edition-on-brown-leather-strap-p9000.html
http://www.tswatch.club/16313-pa16313-pam393-p-ladies-v6f-black-dial-rg-lt-p9000_50ef06f95aadebccac9a75a5374710a9.html
http://www.trustytime01.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=352&products_id=13117
http://www.trustytime01.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=352&products_id=13050

-ZFac O-series w/decorated A7750 NON-inverted Improved ZP9000-V2.5
http://puretime01.com/product/pam393-p-ladies-rg-zf-11-best-edition-on-brown-leather-strap-p9000/
http://www.torobravos.xyz/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=1895
http://www.intime.co/panerai/2497-pam393-p-ladies-rg-zf-1-1-best-edition-on-brown-leather-strap-p9000.html

GEN links:
http://www.paneraisource.com/watch_details/Contemporary_315.html
http://www.panerai.com/en/collections/watch-collection/luminor-1950/59-luminor-marina-1950-3-days-automatic-oro-rosso-pam00393
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh2_XiOlaLg
http://panerai.watchprosite.com/show-forumpost/fi-717/pi-5362933/ti-799068/t-officine-panerai-sihh-2012-panerai-pam392-pam393-42mm-luminor-marina-1950-3-days-automatics/

 

[kanok14]

I have own one from KW, and it is a really nice watch regardless of its flaws.

If you are not looking for a gen like-to-like kinda watch, I would recommend you to own of this piece

MG]

[/IMG]

[/URL]

[/IMG]

[/URL][/IMG]

 

[mysterio]

To paraphrase a famous saying here "The only true perfect replica...is a gen". There will always be flaws, even in what are generally considered super replicas. It will totally depend on your acceptance of what can be done on these reps.

As for which dealer can get you the best specimen, all TDs should be able to source most reps. All you have to provide them is what model and what factory (and sometimes what version).