With the current level of the PAM reps it is almost impossible to tell a rep with such bad defined pics
The PAM 250 is more easy to tell because they are many things to tell the rep. The PAM177 is more difficult
PAM 250 is surely a rep because the date window seems closer to the center than gen, then would be a rep before 2013. Most likely a Noob 2010. But the pic has few definition to say it definitely. With a better pic the identification would be immediate with maker and year of production
PAM177 has some details of rep, like the flaw above said and the shape of roller support in CG. We would need better detailed pics to tell the rep definitely. Crown shape, lever shape, crystal bevelled, lug shape, lug contours, and mainly movement... With these details we would be able to say even the maker
ALE