Franken VR3186 recommends

[BlakeDrinkHard]

Hey guys,

I just bought a CF gmt pepsi with the VR3186 movement and I'm looking to add gen parts to the movement beyond the cosmetics parts outside. I've done alot of research and can't seem to find what gen parts will and won't work with the VR3186. Since it has the new version balance bridge, can I install a gen bridge and wheel even though it has the 2 posts still for the pallet fork? Also, I'm seeing that alot of parts for the 3186 are actually 3135 parts, is that correct? Any recommends for gen parts that will work, along with parts to get a tighter better winding feel to gen. (Would replacing the winning bridge with wheel and other components tighten the winding). I have plenty of gens to compare to, I just don't want to pull apart and void warranty.

 

[WatchSmith.US]

VR3186, which is actually a 3185, will not take a gen balance and bridge. I don’t know about other gen parts.

The VS3135 can take a gen balance and bridge and can be converted to a 3185 GMT using 12 parts from the VR3185/6 or gen GMT parts. I have done this using VR gmt parts and gen balance and bridge and auto wind system and it’s a nice running movement. Build photos: https://imgur.com/a/f7yAmUq

Note: some vs3135s will not run correctly with a gen balance. I have one that won’t and I know of another member who experienced the same thing. it’s a gamble and there’s no way of knowing beforehand.

I had to broach out the center bushing on the VS mainplate in order to fit the VR3185/6 minute wheel.

 

[Blackieray]

Darn! I just bought a lovely GMT Pepsi with a VR3186, making the mistake that I could swap in gen parts. Live and learn. Still, a lovely watch. I need to figure out how to stop the gmt hand slipping.

 

[WatchSmith.US]

UPDATE: @Nik19 has successfully installed a gen balance on a VR3185. It’s no longer
“impossible” but it does require parts and advanced watchmaking skills.

 

[Blackieray]

I'm in no hurry. I can wait. For parts and greater skills. The gmt hand annoys me more for the moment.

 

[unagi]

VR3186, which is actually a 3185, will not take a gen balance and bridge. I don’t know about other gen parts.

The VS3135 can take a gen balance and bridge and can be converted to a 3185 GMT using 12 parts from the VR3185/6 or gen GMT parts. I have done this using VR gmt parts and gen balance and bridge and auto wind system and it’s a nice running movement. Build photos: https://imgur.com/a/f7yAmUq

Note: some vs3135s will not run correctly with a gen balance. I have one that won’t and I know of another member who experienced the same thing. it’s a gamble and there’s no way of knowing beforehand.

I had to broach out the center bushing on the VS mainplate in order to fit the VR3185/6 minute wheel.

Did you happen to make a post about this conversion? I’m looking for a list of those 12 parts that need to be swapped over. I’m about to set off down the same journey myself converting a VS3135 to a “VS3186” using a VR3186 (and eventually gen parts).

Also curious why you didn’t use the engraved VR3186 winding bridge in your Franken movement? Was it not worth using inferior parts for the sake of an engraving?

 

[WatchSmith.US]

Did you happen to make a post about this conversion? I’m looking for a list of those 12 parts that need to be swapped over. I’m about to set off down the same journey myself converting a VS3135 to a “VS3186” using a VR3186 (and eventually gen parts).

Also curious why you didn’t use the engraved VR3186 winding bridge in your Franken movement? Was it not worth using inferior parts for the sake of an engraving?

Here you go.

Parts needed for 3135 to 3185 conversion

3155-335 minute pinion canon pinion

3155-360 second wheel

3175-260 minute wheel

3185-268 cover

3185-284 hour wheel

3185-600 date indicator seating

3185-614 date jumper

3185-623 date finger

3185-625 date wheel

3185-660 module for jumping hours

3185-662 corrector wheel

3185-670 intermediate date wheel



https://imgur.com/a/f7yAmUq some build pics.

 

[unagi]

Here you go.

Parts needed for 3135 to 3185 conversion

3155-335 minute pinion canon pinion

3155-360 second wheel

3175-260 minute wheel

3185-268 cover

3185-284 hour wheel

3185-600 date indicator seating

3185-614 date jumper

3185-623 date finger

3185-625 date wheel

3185-660 module for jumping hours

3185-662 corrector wheel

3185-670 intermediate date wheel



https://imgur.com/a/f7yAmUq some build pics.

Thanks so much for all your help!

 

[RRWatches]

Not movement related, but very nice watch once gen xtal and dw are added!

 

[NPD]

@WatchSmith.US Hello sir, curious if you'd know if there's any difference between the parts list you shared above if it were to be a conversion of VS3135 -> 3186 instead of a 3185 like the one you performed and shared. Would it change much re. the parts needed to pull it off?

 

[Deac0n]

If I have vr3186 what are the best gen parts to install? If I did not want to go full blown like stated in the above, thank you in advance.

 

[themaxx25]

@freddy333


https://www.reddit.com/r/RepTime/comments/u8xhch

 

[freddy333]

UPDATE: @Nik19 has successfully installed a gen balance on a VR3185. It’s no longer
“impossible” but it does require parts and advanced watchmaking skills.

Anyone install a gen balance on an Asian 3186 clone? If yes, which gen balance did you use & what needed to be done to get it to work?
I posted a thread here. Thanks in advance.

 

[freddy333]

After my previous post, the reddit link appeared, so this is an addendum to my previous post/questions --

Based on Nikz19_WatchService's commentary ("Here is a VR3185 with the whole gen bridges kit installed."), he installed an (unidentified??) gen balance & bridge onto a VR3185, not a 3186.

A gen 3135 balance installed on my Asian 3186 without any issues or mods required. However, it does not run smoothly & stops as soon as the movement is in any position other than balance up. I think the balance wheel may be contacting the main plate beneath it, which may suggest the wrong balance for this movement. It may also suggest that the non-functional balance bridge height adjustors may be the problem -- I assume these are functional on the gen 3186 & may be required to vertically position the balance wheel relative to the mainplate & adjoining components. But, again, because I lack the tech manual for this movement, this is just an educated guess on my part.

This is why I am hoping someone who has either successfully installed a gen balance onto an Asian 3186 or a watchmaker with a recent tech manual can provide the correct Rolex balance part number (eg, 3186-432???).

 

[freddy333]

UPDATE --

It looks like there is a small ledge below 1 side of the balance on these Asian 3186s that sits higher than the rest of the area below the balance. So the factory may have designed their regulated balance to sit slightly higher than a gen balance to accommodate that ledge. However, when I replace the clone's balance/bridge with gen parts, it looks like the rim of the gen balance is contacting -- & sitting on -- that raised ledge, causing it to either run erratically or, if the movement is tilted from its balance-up position, stop --



I tried installing a pair of thin dial washers on top of the (non-functional) balance height adjusters hoping they would raise the gen balance bridge enough so the balance could clear that ledge, but that does not seem to have helped.

I do not see any significant height or thickness differences between the clone & gen balance or bridge that would cause the clone balance to sit higher, but I think that is what appears to be happening.

Here are some macros comparing both balances --

 

[freddy333]

Unless someone with better eyes or more modding experience than I have can spot the problem here, my plan is to wait until I receive the clone GMT from Andrew. The 3186 clone in his watch appears slightly different than mine, though I cannot get a clear view of the same area below the balance in Andrew's clone.

I am hoping the 3186 in Andrew's clone lacks that additional ledge (which does not appear to have any obvious structural or mechanical function), so this issue is moot. If not & if no other solution presents itself, my plan is to disassemble the movement, install only the gen balance/bridge & see what it is coming into contact with. If it is only that ledge, it should be a simple process to Dremel it down until the balance spins freely & reassemble with the gen balance.

p.s. I just realized I am hijacking this thread a bit & probably should have started a separate thread, but this may be useful to others in the future who find this thread when searching for solutions to this problem like I did.

 

[themaxx25]

I'm curious if @dogwood has attempted swapping on a 3186...if memory serves me correctly, I think he did this with a DJ...but thats a 3235 movement.

 

[themaxx25]

Here's his 3235 project...I get it, not exactly the same but he does stated it was a bit tight.

 

[dogwood]

Yeah I haven't done a vr3186 or vr3187 gen balance swap. Looking at your macro pics from a few posts up, it kinda looks like the rep balance's pivot is longer than the gen balance's pivot. Perhaps that explains why the heights are different. It is a shame that the endshake adjustor on the rep mainplate isn't functional.

 

[freddy333]

Yeah I haven't done a vr3186 or vr3187 gen balance swap. Looking at your macro pics from a few posts up, it kinda looks like the rep balance's pivot is longer than the gen balance's pivot. Perhaps that explains why the heights are different. It is a shame that the endshake adjustor on the rep mainplate isn't functional.

Thank you for your input.

I did notice the differing heights of the pivots, but, as you noted, without the ability to vary the bridge height, it is difficult to counter that. I did try adding spacers (dial washers) atop the non-adjustable bridge height 'adjusters', but that had no effect.

I am still awaiting Andrew's watch, which contains an Asian 3186 from a different factory & that may solve the balance issue. If that 3186 clone has the same issue, my plan is to grind off that main plate ledge on my current clone movement (as best as I can tell, that ledge does not exist on the gen's main plate) where the balance rim appears to be coming into contact & see if that remedies the problem.