First PAM -- 111, 005, or 299?

[adxc]

Hi everyone,

I'm in the market for my first PAM and I am considering 3 models -- PAM 111 noob, PAM 005 noob, and PAM 299 o-noob. I have read ALE7575's amazing PAM guide and a lot on the forums, but my question is this: I know all of these were (and are still) considered super-reps, but if you were to evaluate it using today's standards rather than several years ago, which one now has absolutely the most gen-like appearance? I chose these models because I like the green dial more than the dirty dial models, I don't mind particularly whether it is manual or automatic, and I want to get a base PAM rather than one of the SEs.

I know PAM 111 has open caseback, and there are tells with the swan-neck and finishing of movement if you see the caseback. But is the overall wrist-presence of PAM 111 more gen-like than 005 and 299 now? In terms of concerns ALE7575 has mentioned re: the sausage lume on 005 noob, is the same problem affecting PAM 299 o-noob? And are all cases now at the same level, or does one of these models have a slightly more accurate case than the others?

Thanks in advance, this forum is a fantastic resource!

 

[lmmo]

The PAM299 is very different from the other two -- it is an automatic and has a metal bracelet (which for me doesn't work that well).

Between the PAM111 and PAM005, it's really up to tastes (sandwich dial and open case vs. sausage dial and closed case), but closed cases are always closer to genuine.

Regarding the cases, the Noob v3 are no longer the best ones. There are pros and cons, between different versions with some people for example preferring the latest HF (although some aspects of it are not entirely gen).
The ideal would be a "true" Noob v4, but these are nearly impossible to find. I have a Noob v3 and order a few days ago the Noob v4 with incabloc, and the case still looks like a normal v3.

Anyway... any of these have a very gen-like apperance and nobody will ever tell you that's a replica unless the other person is also into reps.
If the rest of your lifestyle (job, car, etc.) matches having a $5k+ watch, at this level of quality everyone will assume it's a gen.
To be honest, this will also be true to even several other models below "super rep" status, so my recommendation is to buy something you really enjoy.

 

[adxc]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply, Immo! I have other gen watches and my profession, etc. support the idea that I would have a gen watch. But given the quality of rep PAMs it seems like not a great use of my money to get a gen PAM!

I went to a dealer that stocks Panerai today and tried them on, and unfortunately I think I realized that the 44mm cases are too big for my (6.4") wrist. It looks ok looking straight at the wrist, but viewed in full-length mirror, the proportion of the watch is off. I'm not a big guy and I try to avoid anything that makes me look shorter. :laugh:

On the other hand the PAM 48 (40mm), PAM 392 (42mm), and PAM 610 (42mm) all looked ok. So back to the drawing board for me...

My understanding is the 40mm & 42mm PAMs are not as accurate, but there have been some better ones coming out recently -- PAM 392 and PAM 310 for instance. Are there any other models folks know of that I'm overlooking?
Is it still the case that these models have a "gen-like" appearance on the wrist? Or should I bite the bullet and consider a gen PAM 48 or somesuch?

 

[Fin]

In the exact same boat. New to reps, interested in PAM, prefer cases under 42mm.

Tagging along on this one.

 

[adxc]

Looks like other options include the new KW PAM 048 (but a new date wheel would be required as the factory date wheel is beige), and the KW PAM 337 rad.

Does anyone have advice on where to source a gen or accurate rep date wheel for PAM 048 (7750 movement)?

 

[indywatchguy]

I own a Pam 299 and it's awesome! Very gen like!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lmmo]

[MENTION=131356]adxc[/MENTION] you should try a 45mm Radiomir in historical thin case. References 183, 210 or 380.
Although it's reported as a 45mm they wear smaller.

Actually they wear like the PAM610 you have tried in Panerai, which has in fact a 45mm case and not 42mm as you mentioned.

Another option in one of the Radiomir 1940 thin cases. They are also more wearable.
The best option here is probably the PAM512 (not a super rep, though).

 

[antique_1a_top]

the charming of a PAM is you can change the strap and have a completely watch within seconds. so it can fit perfectly with your style for that day.

so the 299 is not my kind of thing.

take an auto one with glass bottom. will be cool for ever

 

[mysterio]

the charming of a PAM is you can change the strap and have a completely watch within seconds. so it can fit perfectly with your style for that day.

so the 299 is not my kind of thing.

take an auto one with glass bottom. will be cool for ever

You can change the bracelet on a PAM299 for a leather strap so I don't know what you're talking about.

 

[indywatchguy]

Exactly! I put a gen asso on my Pam 299!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hublotkingpower]

I also have small wrists approx 6.5 inches and a slightly thicker strap does help a bit in wearing a 44mm PAM comfortably.

You can't go wrong with either the PAM 111 or 005 although personally I went with an 005 due to a more 'historic' look, a closed case-back, sausage dial which is closer to the original PAM DNA.


Envoyé de mon iPhone Noob V5

 

[Fin]

Looks like other options include the new KW PAM 048 (but a new date wheel would be required as the factory date wheel is beige), and the KW PAM 337 rad.

Does anyone have advice on where to source a gen or accurate rep date wheel for PAM 048 (7750 movement)?

I'm only seeing a V6 rep of the 337. Is there also a KW?

 

[adxc]

Hi Immo, actually I meant to type 620, not 610 -- which I believe is the auto version of the 512. It looked good -- very nice dress watch, but the style maybe less aggressively "PAM" than I am looking for.

I also tried the 183, which as you say is a 45mm PAM but wears smaller. I'm going to drop by the Panerai boutique in my town today and see if I can try the 337, which I believe is the new 42mm radiomir, to see if that looks better or worse than the 183.

TBH I'd rather find a luminor if I can though. Like I mentioned I liked the PAM 048 (40 mm). PAM 392 (42 mm) also fit ok, but because it was the 1950 style it was very thick -- both the case itself and how the crystal domed. I've found a TD that can supply the new KW PAM 048 with replacement white date wheel, but I haven't been able to find much info on the quality of this rep.

Tightlines, my understanding is V6F is new name for KW, so they are the same thing? Maybe folks who know better can weigh in on that.

 

[indywatchguy]

Yes the same


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Fin]

Very helpful. Thanks

 

[shinynewbling25]

I have 6.5 inch wirsts. A little info on my pam's: I've had my 299 for about a month and it's my favorite flavor currently and I don't want to take it off. With that said I know it has less longevity than any of the other homages I have and I actually prefer them to it. I have the submersible rubber on it currently and will get a few different, high quality straps for the complete experience. I also love the bracelet. Very high quality. So that's the current flavor. I've also had the 42mm 512 and I currently have a 40mm marina militare power reserve and just got a 42mm pam 392 50's case marina militare homage from manbushijie.com for 130.00 which I'm extremely impressed by the quality of finishing. So I guess you can say I've sampled just about all the sizes/styles (I also have a submersible homage from Jackson tse.com). Well I think the 40 mm on a nice strap looks the best proportionally and it actually has a great deal of "pop" as well and really does look like a real Panerai should despite those people saying a 44mm is the only way to go. The submersible wears smaller than the 299 and I have it on a nice dark horween leather strap with cream stitching and it dresses up quite nice due to the bling. You could try to find a submersible rep if you haven't considered that route. The 40mm really is the best proportionally and looks great. The 40mm has a great deal of presence and has the luminor look but in a wearable package. The homage is so good for me I haven't felt the need to find a replica Panerai of it but probably would if I intended to pass it off that way. I never really liked the 512 that much when I had it. Fantastic quality dial material, look and crystal. I still miss it because the dial just looked so great but overall the "all dial" look didn't do it for me and it wore quite large. The 42 mm homage I got from manbushijie has the same dial material and slightly inferior crystal with minimal distortion around the edges but still clearer than the 44mm 299. I think the case finishing is on par with the 299 super rep save for slightly less crisp edges. I've bought a few watches from manbushijie and received them quickly so I would recommend them. Nobody I work with would even know what a Panerai is so I wear all of mine with impunity but do like the security of having the 299 just in case. I don't wear the 299 that much to work much just because of the size of the thing (work in business casual office setting). I know you're looking at super reps but give the homages a try for a lot less money and you can sample all the sizes. I vote for 299 rep wise.


I've rambled on enough incoherently typing whatever popped in my head so in summary I'd go to manbushijie or jacksontse dot com and buy the 42mm, 40mm homages and get a 299 super rep as you'll have the bracelet and can get straps. I would get a submersible as well for fun. All the homages are extremely inexpensive and good quality. The luminor 44's really do look ridiculous on a 6.5 inch wrist so right about that part if you're not wearing it for fun. For roughly $520 ($600 with the submersible) you can have all your PAM size needs met and can find reps of the ones you like best.

 

[shinynewbling25]

Oh forgot to mention, luminor case wears much better than the 50's style case. 50's case looks good but sooo darn thick.

 

[adxc]

Thanks shinynewbling25 for all of that insight!

Well after all that I went to the AD today and managed to drag my wife along in there with me. Size-wise the best model I tried on was the new 42mm PAM 1392 (slimmer version of 392). But I don't think there is a rep of that out yet (plus I didn't love the blue seconds hand).

To my surprise though, my wife thought I can totally pull off the 44mm Luminors! I also found, unexpectedly, that I liked the look of the clean faces with no second hands or date wheel better than the models with more features, and that the "dirty dial" looked great on the wrist. Tried on a PAM 590 which looked great with asso strap. So now, I'm looking at getting the noob PAM 390 or KW PAM 411 and pairing with a gen asso strap.

All of which goes to show, if you can it's really worth going to an AD and trying out PAMs yourself! What ended up working well was totally not what I expected. Now that I'm bitten by the PAM bug though I'm already thinking about what other PAMs I could get... :lol:

 

[indywatchguy]

I would disagree manbushji quality sucks! I'd stick only with trusted dealers. You get what you pay for so please spend your hard earned cash wisely!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[shinynewbling25]

Thanks shinynewbling25 for all of that insight!

Well after all that I went to the AD today and managed to drag my wife along in there with me. Size-wise the best model I tried on was the new 42mm PAM 1392 (slimmer version of 392). But I don't think there is a rep of that out yet (plus I didn't love the blue seconds hand).

To my surprise though, my wife thought I can totally pull off the 44mm Luminors! I also found, unexpectedly, that I liked the look of the clean faces with no second hands or date wheel better than the models with more features, and that the "dirty dial" looked great on the wrist. Tried on a PAM 590 which looked great with asso strap. So now, I'm looking at getting the noob PAM 390 or KW PAM 411 and pairing with a gen asso strap.

All of which goes to show, if you can it's really worth going to an AD and trying out PAMs yourself! What ended up working well was totally not what I expected. Now that I'm bitten by the PAM bug though I'm already thinking about what other PAMs I could get... :lol:

Revival! lol. So adxc, how did this situation turn out? Not much changed form me PAM wise since this time except picking up two H factory 416 and 005 and KW/V6f 024 submersible a couple months later then just a KW 048 a few years later. Then just in the last 30 days I picked up modern PAMS 960, 1070, 1232, 438 and 177. That is definitely going to take care of the PAM itch for a while and, for me, the best references. I'm still primarily a Breitling guy. Just curious, what PAMS, rep or gen, did you settle on and what direction has your collection taken?