Factories? Noob, BK, BP etc...

[Capt. Obvious]

I've been looking around this awesome forum for info about factories and various abbreviations, but I am still confused.

Could somebody tell me, or point me to the right post or info page, the differences between BP, BK, DSSD, NOOB etc..?
(I am not even sure they all describe the same thing)

I ask because, of course, I want to try to purchase a black ceramic sub (116610 I believe it is).

I have also read to stay away from 3135 because it is overpriced (although I have not yet seen an objective review/analysis) and that I would be better off buying a $130 NOOB. I am not THAT fussed with the movement as long as it has decent time keeping. I am more fussed about the outside, of course I want the best possible.

I don't mean to be lazy, I will keep on reading, but just need some help making sense and sorting out all the info I am reading on here.

Any help truly appreciated!

 

[greecean]

between BP, BK, DSSD, NOOB etc..?

BP, Noob - these are names of factories that make reps
DSSD - is a model of rolex

stay away from 3135 because it is overpriced

that is a type of movement that goes into reps

 

[jerkstore]

BK and TC are modders. They offer the best available modern subs.

 

[iamthestig]

Bk is known as BKLM1234 and he is a modder.

 

[frankt8242]

If you're not yet fully afflicted with the dreaded "repanalitis" syndrome, you should just buy one of the entry level "subs" that our trusted dealers offer...
They have evolved over the years to be vastly better than even the most expensive ones available a few years back....
Try Narikka...He usually has a decent one on hand for remarkably cheap!!

 

[mech500]

Hello. I was in a similar position as you last year when I was researching the best supplier for a black ceramic sub. I pulled the trigger on a $600 (ish) Sub from BK. When the watch arrived i was blown away by the quality! However after a few months and more researching on here the ''flaws' really began to bother me (e.g the pearl wasn't aligned, bracelet finish was poor, case 'inaccuracies' , too many sharp edges etc)....soon ended up selling it for a third of the purchase price. In fact the bracelet on mine broke and pearl fell of in a month. Not BK's fault.... thats just the factory qc. Anyways i wouldnt recommend spending a massive amount of money in your first sub. Try PMing sead with your requirements, he should be able to help you out

 

[d4m.test]

Could somebody tell me, or point me to the right post or info page, the differences between BP, BK, DSSD, NOOB etc..?
(I am not even sure they all describe the same thing)

The amount of jargon on the forum can definitely be overwhelming for a noob. It's made worse by the fact that many of the terms and factories are badly named for arbitrary reasons, and the names just sorta stick. Here's some random stuff I'll try and categorize with stuff I've learned so far:

Factories

• Noob Factory - (AKA Mr. Creme de la Creme) Very popular rep manufacturer best known for their super rep Panerai watches, especially the PAM111N v3 and AP Diver v3. Trustworthy in terms of using new swiss movements. They make tons of other watches, and in terms of Rolexes they make ones that are great reps, but not quite super reps.
• H Factory - Another very popular rep manufacturer also known for their super rep Panerai watches, and the primary competition with Noob Factory in this area. Also known for high end Breitling reps especially the SteelFish. Trustworthy in terms of using new swiss movements.
• BP Factory - Named because of their manufacture of IWC Big Pilot (BP) watches, and the name just stuck. Today they're well known for their very high end Rolex Submariner Ceramic watches (116610) for a low price. I believe they also make current Omega Seamaster 42mm PO and CrPO super reps. Questionable reputation for using refurbished swiss movements.
• V6 Factory - Known for making very high end Hublot Big Bang watches. Also known for making some Tag Heuer reps
• Cartel - a factory that is exclusive to Trusty Time and Perfect Clones rep watch dealers. Known as the cartel because those two dealers were known for trying to form a coalition of exclusivity to enable price fixing. They are no longer authorized Trusted Dealers here, but still have good quality stuff.

Big Modders / Small Factories

• TC - known for making one of the highest end Rolex Submariner (and previously Yachtmaster) super reps at a high end premium price. blog(dot)tc-sub(dot)com
• BK - also known for making very high end Rolex Submariner reps
• WM9 - Before my time. Apparently also a highly coveted Rolex replica model modded by someone named WatchMaker9
• Kuvarsit - popular for Panerai reps
• DSN - AKA Davidsen, DavidsenJpn. Popular for Panerai reps and sterile homages

Movements

• 21J - AKA DG2813, DG4813 (high beat), Miyota clone, 21 Jewel, 22 Jewel, 22J. This is an entry level cheap movement with decent reliability. Can be found in reps priced around the $100 mark. Hands and dial for this movement cannot be used in other more popular movements.
• A2824 - AKA Asian Clone, Superclone, Asian ETA, Seagull ST-2130. A completely legal Chinese made clone of the popular Swiss ETA 2836 movement. Can be found in reps priced around $150 and above. Has a date wheel numbered 1-31.
• A2836 - AKA Asian Clone, Superclone, Asian ETA, Seagull ST-2100. Identical to the A2824, but also with a day of the week wheel. Both movements are interchangeable as long as your dial does not have a day of the week window.
• A2892 - Clone of an ETA 2892 movement. Same diameter as an A28xx movement but significantly thinner (relatively speaking of course). Fairly rare in reps. Still accepts dial and hands from A28xx movements. Not often discussed in reps unless doing some custom or high end work.
• Sellita SW200 - another clone of the Swiss ETA 2836 movement, but made by a Swiss company with the same high end standards as ETA. Price and performance is the same as an actual Swiss ETA but has an extra jewel for a longer power reserve.
• ETA2836 - AKA Swiss ETA, ETA2824, Swiss. The genuine and original Swiss movement used in a ton of genuine and high end rep watches. Hands and dials for the ETA2836 will fit the Sellita and A2836 movements.
• SA3135 - Chinese clone of the Rolex 3135 movement. It has the same features of the genuine Rolex movement (size, dial and hand compatibility, crown/stem height, hand rotation) but has mixed reviews on reliability. Early versions had weak stems that broke in the movement. Newer movements seem to have better reviews.

You can check the Rolex section (and Rolex Wiki) or the Rolex page on wikipedia for info on models. The popular ones seem to be:

• Submariner - AKA Sub, 16610xx. The standard submariner with metal insert on the bezel and smaller case/lugs/crown guards.
• Submariner Ceramic - AKA Sub-C, 116610xx. Same as the Sub but with a slightly bigger case all around and a ceramic insert on the bezel. Also has a bigger pearl on the bezel, and bigger lume dots on the dial (known as a maxi dial).
• LV - Version of a Sub and Sub-C that is green to celebrate the 50th anniversary. The LV version of the sub has a black maxi dial and a green insert. The LV version of the Sub-C has a green sunburst maxi dial and green ceramic insert.
• SD - SeaDweller. Dunno much about it.
• DSSD - Deep Sea Dweller? Deepsea Seadweller? Again, dunno.

And that's all I can think of in my long rant. I hope that helps. That took awhile to type, so you better reply in some way and not disappear.

 

[razorblade]

The amount of jargon on the forum can definitely be overwhelming for a noob. It's made worse by the fact that many of the terms and factories are badly named for arbitrary reasons, and the names just sorta stick. Here's some random stuff I'll try and categorize with stuff I've learned so far:

Factories

• Noob Factory - (AKA Mr. Creme de la Creme) Very popular rep manufacturer best known for their super rep Panerai watches, especially the PAM111N v3 and AP Diver v3. Trustworthy in terms of using new swiss movements. They make tons of other watches, and in terms of Rolexes they make ones that are great reps, but not quite super reps.
• H Factory - Another very popular rep manufacturer also known for their super rep Panerai watches, and the primary competition with Noob Factory in this area. Also known for high end Breitling reps especially the SteelFish. Trustworthy in terms of using new swiss movements.
• BP Factory - Named because of their manufacture of IWC Big Pilot (BP) watches, and the name just stuck. Today they're well known for their very high end Rolex Submariner Ceramic watches (116610) for a low price. I believe they also make current Omega Seamaster 42mm PO and CrPO super reps. Questionable reputation for using refurbished swiss movements.
• V6 Factory - Known for making very high end Hublot Big Bang watches
• Cartel - a factory that is exclusive to Trusty Time and Perfect Clones rep watch dealers. Known as the cartel because those two dealers were known for trying to form a coalition of exclusivity to enable price fixing. They are no longer authorized Trusted Dealers here, but still have good quality stuff.

Big Modders / Small Factories

• TC - known for making one of the highest end Rolex Submariner (and previously Yachtmaster) super reps at a high end premium price. blog(dot)tc-sub(dot)com
• BK - also known for making very high end Rolex Submariner reps
• WM9 - Before my time. Apparently also a highly coveted model modded by someone named WM(?)
• Kuvarsit - popular for Panerai reps
• DSN - AKA Davidsen, DavidsenJpn. Popular for Panerai reps and sterile homages

Movements

• 21J - AKA DG2813, DG4813 (high beat), Miyota clone. This is an entry level cheap movement with decent reliability. Can be found in reps priced around the $100 mark. Hands and dial for this movement cannot be used in other more popular movements.
• A2836 - AKA Asian Clone, Superclone, Asian ETA, A2824. A completely legal Chinese made clone of the popular Swiss ETA 2836 movement. Can be found in reps priced around $150 and above.
• Sellita SW200 - another clone of the Swiss ETA 2836 movement, but made by a Swiss company with the same high end standards as ETA. Price and performance is the same as an actual Swiss ETA.
• ETA2836 - AKA Swiss ETA, ETA2824, Swiss. The genuine and original Swiss movement used in a ton of genuine and high end rep watches. Hands and dials for the ETA2836 will fit the Sellita and A2836 movements.
• SA3135 - Chinese clone of the Rolex 3135 movement. It has the same features of the genuine Rolex movement (size, dial and hand compatibility, crown/stem height, hand rotation) but has mixed reviews on reliability. Early versions had weak stems that broke in the movement. Newer movements seem to have better reviews.

You can check the Rolex section or the Rolex page on wikipedia for info on models. The popular ones seem to be:

• Submariner - AKA Sub, 16610xx. The standard submariner with metal insert on the bezel and smaller case/lugs/crown guards.
• Submariner Ceramic - AKA Sub-C, 116610xx. Same as the Sub but with a slightly bigger case all around and a ceramic insert on the bezel. Also has a bigger pearl on the bezel, and bigger lume dots on the dial (known as a maxi dial).
• LV - Version of a Sub and Sub-C that is green to celebrate the 50th anniversary. The LV version of the sub has a black maxi dial and a green insert. The LV version of the Sub-C has a green sunburst maxi dial and green ceramic insert.
• SD - SeaDweller. Dunno much about it.
• DSSD - Deep Sea Dweller? Deepsea Seadweller? Again, dunno.

And that's all I can think of in my long rant. I hope that helps. That took awhile to type, so you better reply in some way and not disappear.

Deserves a sticky.

Oh and WM9 is short for Watchmaker9.

I believe V6 also makes a number of the Tag super reps.

 

[d4m.test]

Deserves a sticky.

Oh and WM9 is short for Watchmaker9.

I believe V6 also makes a number of the Tag super reps.

Thanks! I'll edit my post with the info and any other info people suggest corrections / updates for.

 

[zero_deficit]

Solid stuff there big_raji!

Though it should be noted that a 'factory' is an umbrella term for a group of assemblers, case manufacturers, designers, crystal manufacturers, dial makers etc who make a particular type or version of watch. There's no enormous manufacturing plant with a Noob or BP logo on its side churning out 10000 reps an hour

 

[Capt. Obvious]

The amount of jargon on the forum can definitely be overwhelming for a noob. It's made worse by the fact that many of the terms and factories are badly named for arbitrary reasons, and the names just sorta stick. Here's some random stuff I'll try and categorize with stuff I've learned so far:

Factories

• Noob Factory - (AKA Mr. Creme de la Creme) Very popular rep manufacturer best known for their super rep Panerai watches, especially the PAM111N v3 and AP Diver v3. Trustworthy in terms of using new swiss movements. They make tons of other watches, and in terms of Rolexes they make ones that are great reps, but not quite super reps.
• H Factory - Another very popular rep manufacturer also known for their super rep Panerai watches, and the primary competition with Noob Factory in this area. Also known for high end Breitling reps especially the SteelFish. Trustworthy in terms of using new swiss movements.
• BP Factory - Named because of their manufacture of IWC Big Pilot (BP) watches, and the name just stuck. Today they're well known for their very high end Rolex Submariner Ceramic watches (116610) for a low price. I believe they also make current Omega Seamaster 42mm PO and CrPO super reps. Questionable reputation for using refurbished swiss movements.
• V6 Factory - Known for making very high end Hublot Big Bang watches. Also known for making some Tag Heuer reps
• Cartel - a factory that is exclusive to Trusty Time and Perfect Clones rep watch dealers. Known as the cartel because those two dealers were known for trying to form a coalition of exclusivity to enable price fixing. They are no longer authorized Trusted Dealers here, but still have good quality stuff.

Big Modders / Small Factories

• TC - known for making one of the highest end Rolex Submariner (and previously Yachtmaster) super reps at a high end premium price. blog(dot)tc-sub(dot)com
• BK - also known for making very high end Rolex Submariner reps
• WM9 - Before my time. Apparently also a highly coveted Rolex replica model modded by someone named WatchMaker9
• Kuvarsit - popular for Panerai reps
• DSN - AKA Davidsen, DavidsenJpn. Popular for Panerai reps and sterile homages

Movements

• 21J - AKA DG2813, DG4813 (high beat), Miyota clone. This is an entry level cheap movement with decent reliability. Can be found in reps priced around the $100 mark. Hands and dial for this movement cannot be used in other more popular movements.
• A2836 - AKA Asian Clone, Superclone, Asian ETA, A2824. A completely legal Chinese made clone of the popular Swiss ETA 2836 movement. Can be found in reps priced around $150 and above.
• Sellita SW200 - another clone of the Swiss ETA 2836 movement, but made by a Swiss company with the same high end standards as ETA. Price and performance is the same as an actual Swiss ETA.
• ETA2836 - AKA Swiss ETA, ETA2824, Swiss. The genuine and original Swiss movement used in a ton of genuine and high end rep watches. Hands and dials for the ETA2836 will fit the Sellita and A2836 movements.
• SA3135 - Chinese clone of the Rolex 3135 movement. It has the same features of the genuine Rolex movement (size, dial and hand compatibility, crown/stem height, hand rotation) but has mixed reviews on reliability. Early versions had weak stems that broke in the movement. Newer movements seem to have better reviews.

You can check the Rolex section or the Rolex page on wikipedia for info on models. The popular ones seem to be:

• Submariner - AKA Sub, 16610xx. The standard submariner with metal insert on the bezel and smaller case/lugs/crown guards.
• Submariner Ceramic - AKA Sub-C, 116610xx. Same as the Sub but with a slightly bigger case all around and a ceramic insert on the bezel. Also has a bigger pearl on the bezel, and bigger lume dots on the dial (known as a maxi dial).
• LV - Version of a Sub and Sub-C that is green to celebrate the 50th anniversary. The LV version of the sub has a black maxi dial and a green insert. The LV version of the Sub-C has a green sunburst maxi dial and green ceramic insert.
• SD - SeaDweller. Dunno much about it.
• DSSD - Deep Sea Dweller? Deepsea Seadweller? Again, dunno.

And that's all I can think of in my long rant. I hope that helps. That took awhile to type, so you better reply in some way and not disappear.

That's EXACTLY the info I was attempting to sort out in my head!!!
Thank you so much! Defo a sticky!!!!

 

[Bonesey]

Most of this information is available already in the Rolex basics wiki post at the top of the rolex section by the way folks.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk HD

 

[sub4me]

Big raji gave you some very good information there and deserves a Big Thank you for his effort to help you out.

Hello. I was in a similar position as you last year when I was researching the best supplier for a black ceramic sub. I pulled the trigger on a $600 (ish) Sub from BK. When the watch arrived i was blown away by the quality! However after a few months and more researching on here the ''flaws' really began to bother me (e.g the pearl wasn't aligned, bracelet finish was poor, case 'inaccuracies' , too many sharp edges etc)....soon ended up selling it for a third of the purchase price. In fact the bracelet on mine broke and pearl fell of in a month. Not BK's fault.... thats just the factory qc. Anyways i wouldnt recommend spending a massive amount of money in your first sub. Try PMing sead with your requirements, he should be able to help you out

To me these problems and others dont equal to the asking price of the watch, ok so maybe you get a upgraded bracelet, I'll pass on any rep at that price point.

Solid stuff there big_raji!

Though it should be noted that a 'factory' is an umbrella term for a group of assemblers, case manufacturers, designers, crystal manufacturers, dial makers etc who make a particular type or version of watch. There's no enormous manufacturing plant with a Noob or BP logo on its side churning out 10000 reps an hour

WTF, are you saying the factory isn't marked with a giant LED sign saying Noob Factory??:hehehe:

 

[Capt. Obvious]

Big raji gave you some very good information there and deserves a Big Thank you for his effort to help you out.

TOO RIGHT!!!

Hence the "THANK YOU SO MUCH" reply two posts ago!

Also, did not mean to be rude and leave anybody out, so thank you to all of you who took time to post any info whatsoever!

 

[Luthier]

First of all - there's ONLY 4 high end factories in Guangzhou area. Call them how ever you want. Not 5, not 6, but only 4. I don't know, who started this bullshit about "BP" factory, but it's for sure bullshit. One factory made good Sub, and dealers started to call it "Noob" factory. Tis factory is also the only one who make absolutely all hi-end APs. There's no "Cartel factory whatsoever. No factory would restrict sales to only 2 dealers, it's just impossible finances wise. There's tons of 2nd and 3rd tiers factories, who make tons of crap for WE, Canal Street and Turkish/Bkk/younameit/ vendors.
Movements:
DG-2813 is 22j movement, produced by Dixmont Guangzhou (best) and Nanning (worst) factories. 21,600bph.
DG-4813 produced exclusively by Dixmont Guangzhou, 22j, 28,800bph.
Cold be with long cannon pinion, and with short cannon pinion.
A2824 is, actually, ST-2130 (date @3), A2836 is ST-2100 is an A2836-2 (day/date @3).
A2892 is ST-1812, also, Seagull movement.

 

[tr573]

First of all - there's ONLY 4 high end factories in Guangzhou area. Call them how ever you want. Not 5, not 6, but only 4. I don't know, who started this bullshit about "BP" factory, but it's for sure bullshit. One factory made good Sub, and dealers started to call it "Noob" factory. Tis factory is also the only one who make absolutely all hi-end APs. There's no "Cartel factory whatsoever. No factory would restrict sales to only 2 dealers, it's just impossible finances wise. There's tons of 2nd and 3rd tiers factories, who make tons of crap for WE, Canal Street and Turkish/Bkk/younameit/ vendors.
Movements:
DG-2813 is 22j movement, produced by Dixmont Guangzhou (best) and Nanning (worst) factories. 21,600bph.
DG-4813 produced exclusively by Dixmont Guangzhou, 22j, 28,800bph.
Cold be with long cannon pinion, and with short cannon pinion.
A2824 is, actually, ST-2130 (date @3), A2836 is ST-2100 is an A2836-2 (day/date @3).
A2892 is ST-1812, also, Seagull movement.

It's the same maker who made the 5th gen 42mm PO , and the nice big pilots. When they started cranking out the super lumed rolexes, people were looking for something to refer to them as. So big pilot, hence BP.

It's easier than what Andrew was referring to them as in his newsletter which was "Big Pilot and 5th Gen PO maker", no?


Edit: there's a hangzhou 2836 clone too. Not as high quality as the seagull one


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[sub4me]

Theres No such thing as a high end rep and Luth you know that.

 

[mitchbaria]

BP, Noob - these are names of factories that make reps
DSSD - is a model of rolex



that is a type of movement that goes into reps

3135 is a Rolex movement.... and now it's being cloned but it is not a type of movements that go into reps....

The 3135 clone or sa goes into reps.... just sayin:facepalm:

 

[Luthier]

Theres No such thing as a high end rep and Luth you know that.

Sure, sub, my bad... I didn't realize, that Avenger with 316L steel case and A7750 is the same shit as Avenger with modified DG-2813 and alloy case, chrome plated...
My deepest apologies...

 

[cybee]

Anyways i wouldnt recommend spending a massive amount of money in your first sub.

Great advice right there and great info from BigRaji.

I have to admit that with all the abbreviated terms it's no wonder that newcomers get easily confused. It's up the to the very few members who have been in the watch industry and have actually been to China to keep us honest on all of these strange terms that we use.

:classic: