ETA / TC 2824 Reverse Gear Problem - Troubleshooting

[tc670207]

In the past couple of months, some members received their TC Sub V6 reported the movement does not hold power reserve normally.

I replaced the ETA part #1488 & part #1530 for the two members whom reported the issue to me. I thought by replacing the two ETA parts would solve the problem and case closed.

However, I received more reports on this issue from members, I know something must be wrong with the batch of movement.

In the mean time, I found the same problem happened in gen world. This man bought a brand new Oris, which is equipped with ETA 2824-2, encountered the same very reverse gear problem right after receiving:
http://www.amazon.com/review/R35D5BW5I5X864/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#R35D5BW5I5X864

I have read from time to time that members suspect that TC 2824 is a Chinese clone. And is far away form ETA quality. But in reality, ETA has it's fair share of issues from time to time too.


I got in touch with the TC 2824 movement maker in hopes the maker will help me to rectify the problem. Luckily the maker responded rather proactively. But I had to bring the whole batch that is left and pay the maker a visit.

The problem was indeed with ETA part #1488 and #1530. There was a faulty tiny spring inside #1488 and #1530 reverse gears that sneaked through the maker's quality control process and caused the problem.

It took the maker almost a month to recycle my batch as well as checking the other aspects of the movement just to make sure there is no other issue. The maker produced a revised and improved batch of #1488 & #1530 to use on my movements.

One of the technicians working for the movement maker also taught me a quick method to check for this issue during QC:

"Manual wind the movement, and leave it on a flat surface. Flick the stem, if the movement starts to rotate like crazy then the reverse gear is defective and vise versa."

So, sorry for the delay to member who ordered TC Subs in the past few months.

In the past month, I ran this test on every single TC 2824 used in the built. I also tested the replacement batch. I am happy to report that all TC 2824s are functioning as it is designed to. The immediate actions taken by the TC 2824 maker to rectify this issue gave me strong confidence. They mean business. I am happy to report that we as community has overcame another hump.


On a side note, a brand new ETA 2824-2 standard grade is now US$235. Check out this eBay link. What does ETA 2824-2 Standard Grade Spec Grade stands for? Here's a great article on WUS - "ETA grades explained".

In plain English, it means when turned to the CH (dial up), and 6H (6 o'clock up) position, the "Rate" has to be within + / - 12 second per day.


After each TC Sub is fully assembled, I test it again on the timer to make sure all is within the proper parameter. Many times TC 2824 performs on par or surpass ETA 2824. This is a TC Sub V6 I just completed the built last night.

And I hate to brag, this TC 2824 is qualified not just "Standard Grade", but an US$300 "Elabore Grade" movement! All 3 positions, CH, 6H, & 9H in + / - 7 seconds per day.

Another important aspect is that besides ETA, TC 2824 maker is the only movement maker that I know which produces the H4 canon stock to the 2824 movement. The H4 canon pinon is paramount to the accuratte representation of a gen unit. Why? Please read: "TC 2824 - An ETA 2824-2 Super Clone".

Once again, I still stand behind TC 2824's performance and reliability. I also believe this US based company is here to stay in the watch world. We might even start to hear its name in the near future.


Thanks for reading!

TC

8/14/2014

 

[d4m.test]

Thanks TC, good to see you stand behind your product 100% like this.
My TC V6 Sub should be here anyday.

Thanks
Ed

 

[Subjeff]

Thanks TC!!!!

 

[bc1221]

glad this issue has been sorted.

now i kinda want a TC...
hrmm.. what watches can i sell... :lol:

 

[gbxx]

Thanks for the update TC!

 

[kohr]

I was affected by this myself. Rather than sending the watch back to you, I bought those ETA replacement parts, and had a local watch smith replace them.

I've had the watch back from the watch smith for a little over a week now, and it's been running.

 

[Supersquirrel]

Excellent news

 

[lofi]

Nice post TC.

 

[rsh]

I actually have an earlier TC sub with the gen ETA and it too had this problem on occasion. Most of the time its fine. almost seems like its an issue when watch has not been used a while then it is fine. It is not just clones, it happens.

 

[sub4me]

Why can't you tell us who supplies the movement why is it such a secret??

Is the movement built off a ETA base movement or is it a clone of the ETA??

 

[razorsedge]

TC says on his blog that the movement maker doesn't want to be associated with reps so it makes sense to me that he wouldn't disclose the maker. It may hurt his chances to continue to use them as a supplier in the future.

 

[SUMIKITO]

Great news from TC !! A little hiccup happens to any mechanical device. And this small 'baby hiccup' is now gone !! More power to you TC !! :thumbsup:

 

[gbxx]

*I don't know who supplies the movement* However, a little Googling for watch movement makers located on the east coast of the US isn't hard to do; and the list isn't very long.


Google is your friend...........

 

[jessemack]

I can say without fault that TC cares about his customers and does the best he can to make a superior product at a reasonable price. I have bought two watches from him and when the movement problem came up, it took a while to get an email back. But, when he got the time to reply he stood by his watch and is going to fix it for me. Good stuff, and it looks amazing on the wrist.

 

[xmartin86x]

and so i'm having a tudor black bay v3. Manual winding it, the rotor rotates very quickly. Could this be the same problem i'm facing?

I've been searching through the forums and got a few ideas. Some stating it is a simple fix just by removing the autowind module and clean it, some suggested to replace the reversing gears. And now i found this TC 2824 thread.. So i'm unsure if by replacing the movt to TC2824 would fit the tudor black bay v3?

EDIT: i have found my ans on whether tc2824 would fit the tudor black bay v3. Thanks

 

[slaughterer62]

Nice TC sorted this out, and I found this troubleshooting guide helpful.
With mine I tried repairing TC automatic bridge, but all efforts did not remedy the problem. In the end I replaced the entire automatic bridge with a Swiss ETA.
I will just say this in case someone has the problem of the crown reversing and depowering the watch. I had this. It was because there was also a problem with my crown wheel click: the nub that stops the crown wheel from reversing broke. This happened with two Asian replacements. I finally replaced with a Swiss crown wheel click and all is fine. In the process I had to take apart and service to get the little nub out from inside the movement. Cleaned and oiled. Now the watch is functionally perfect.

 

[KBH]

*I don't know who supplies the movement* However, a little Googling for watch movement makers located on the east coast of the US isn't hard to do; and the list isn't very long.


Google is your friend...........

And it doesn't show any new manufacturers of 2824 clones.

From A Blog To Watch:

It has been a long while indeed since any mechanical watch movements have been made in America. Sure there are high quality American watch companies such as RGM, Kobold, Hamilton, Ball, and various small operations such as the Bozeman Watch Company and Ryser Kentfield, but buy mostly Swiss made movements and special parts. It was probably Hamilton that last made mechanical watch movements 30-40 years ago. As an art almost lost in America, it took Roland Murphy of RGM watches to re discover watch movement making. To that extent, RGM is releasing the first American made watch movement, the Caliber 801, in a new line of watches to be available soon. The movement is a highly decorated, attractive three hand movement with a subsidiary seconds. It features 19 jewels and is manually wound. All but the most intricate parts are constructed and assembled in America.