- 31/5/21
- 98
- 62
- 18
Hello fellow members
Sit back, relax because this is a long one.
I will tell the full story from my point of view and I am ready to back up any statement I have made by proof/evidence.
I will attach as much as I can, but should you want more evidence or context, contact me privately or here and I will provide further proof.
It started when I saw an ad for a white dial Clean Daytona V3 (116520) that supposedly had some mods which were, deep crystal and a gen/xing bezel (he believes it is gen, but didn’t want to sell it as gen because mods told him it wasn’t a gen, even though he bought it from a trusted source).
I contacted the seller / Mafrige and said that I wanted to purchase said watch and this is where he told me that since posting the sales ad, he had changed the dial from white to black, specifically an ARF V2 dial (according to him).
I say “according to him” as other people who know reps better then me have suspected this to be a bait and switch, which could mean that I didn’t receive a watch with any of these mods. I don’t know this for a fact, and people have said the opposite aswell therefore I won’t make that claim, but it is worth a mention.
Here I make my first mistake. As a fairly new member who dosnt use the forum that much, I did not know that I should have told him to update the sales thread, and since I didn’t know - I never asked him to do this. I suspect he knew that this would void any admin/mod help - which ofcause is what happened, admin/mods didn’t help, give advice or answer any questions regarding rules in the help desk ticket regarding this case - their first response is that I got an accurate description and depiction of what I bought, and secondly that it was a back door sale for those wondering.
I continue the conversation by asking for proof of mods, service/work, and that it in fact was a Clean V3, I also ask for more pictures where he sends a further 4 pictures (see photos below)
Here I make my second mistake - I studied the original (white dial) sales ad pictures a lot before contacting him as to not waste his time, and when he send the new pictures I looked them over fairly quickly as their quality wasn’t the best and I mistook some damage as a sun glare, specifically the missing enamel paint at the 130 on the bezel.
The condition he claimed the watch to be in on the sales ad was “Like new” and in private he stated the watch was (in his words) “brand new”. (See photo below)
So obviously he never mentioned any sort of damage or even that it would have hairlines in the many messages between us.
He kept putting pressure on me by saying he wanted to keep the watch himself so if I didn’t want to buy it, he would mark it as sold and keep it for himself and then when I didn’t respond he told me that he dosnt think that I would buy the watch because I took time to think (under 24h) - this is obviously a red flag now… but hindsight is 20/20.
We agreed on a price which was 830 EUR incl. shipping for the “brand new” Clean V3 Daytona with deep crystal, gen/xing bezel and the ARF V2 Dial.
I told him before sending funds that I would be leaving the country on the 16th of October. The watch ends up having an estimated delivery date on the 18th, but it ends up arriving on the 17th…
I am mentioning this as he believes the damage I am about to mention and show was done by me because I had the watch for a week if you ask him - which is not the case, and I have offered to send him an unboxing video with a time stamp and other proof that clearly show that I only got the watch on the 23rd of October.
On the 23rd October I finally get to open the package, which was packaged extremely well, so the following damage I will show was not caused by the shipping - almost instantly I notice multiple problems… the condition of the watch was not as he promised.
In the unboxing video I actually freeze up after looking at the watch for only 5 seconds, and show damage on camera at 8-9 seconds after seeing the watch - that is how much and obvious it was.
Just as a reminder, he referred to this watch as “brand new” and here I will list what I believe to be fraud at worst, or deceptive sales tactics at best.
These are the issues. (Besides hairlines)
- Deep crystal is scratches to oblivion
- The bezel is missing enamel in two places (at the 130 and at the line marker above the 85)
- Multiple deep and long scratches 2cm long on either side of the bezel
- A dent/scratch/scrape just below the 240
- The clasp had scratching, more then someone would consider hairlines
- The bracelet had a ding on a link
- Multiple screws were completely torn up, and one wasn’t even the correct length
- On the inside of the clasp there was scrapes/scratching
- I probably forgot something but you get the point.
The overall condition was bad - it DID NOT match what he described OR showed me.
Because I’m my opinion and I hope yours aswell, a “brand new” watch, should not even have hairlines, but those I could live with - this watch had heavy scratches, dents, dings all over and missing enamel paint two places.
Again, as a fairly new member I panic and make a thread asking other members for advice (where I deny naming names or linking to the seller myself until I was sure) taking their advice I first try to handle it with the seller (Mafrige), who flat out denies any wrongdoing and claims that I did all this damage due to me messaging him 5 days after the package was delivered.
I then make a help desk ticket where I got no response for 13 days, and no help due to the apparent back door sale.
I then go back to the seller ask him to find a mutual beneficial solution that works for us both - here is the first sentences of my initial message.
“Is it possible that we can discuss me getting some money in return for the undisclosed damage?
I want to be fair, so as long as I get enough to cover the enamel damage and the professional polish to get rid of the deep dents and scratches aswell as the hairlines ofcause.”
He then tells me that the issues will only cost around 10 euros to fix, where I go on to emphasise that I only want whatever the cost will be to fix it, so if that is 10 euros, I only want 10 euros, but I also say that I want to be fair - so I would be more then willing to find some middle ground in case the repair would cost a lot, even though it shouldn’t be on me as a buyer.
(At this point I hadn’t gotten ahold of any watchmaker, and therefore I did not know the price)
Mafrige again denies giving any money back - and he never answers a single of my messages again.
But in the original sales ad he does say that he will send me 50 euros back, when another member presents him with my evidence but then says if I would get the 50 euros then he would give me bad feedback - he never offered this to me, he only wrote this in his sales ad to look good I assume.
And to be clear I have received 0 euros from him in compensation, and I have not heard from him since 24th of October, even though I gave him multiple chances on these perspectives dates to make sure he had been online before I took action:
- 24th of October
- 6th of November
- 9th of November
Currently my cost to get the watch back to what he describes is around 200 euros, this is not a made up number, it is the number I have received from a watchmaker here in the forum who will do the restoration.
So it is fair to say after this long winded post, that I would strongly advise NOT to purchase from Mafrige.
I personally contacted a buyer of his who bought before me, prior to sending funds, and he didn’t raise any red flags. But I still advice not to buy from him, due to the fact that he goes agains RWI rules by not solving any after purchase issues, misleads in regards to condition, put the blame on the buyer and many other character issues if you ask me.
SAVE YOURSELF THE HASSLE, DISAPPOINTMENT AND YOUR MONEY, AND STAY AWAY FROM THIS SELLER.
As for the evidence:
Original sales pictures:
Photos sent in private:
Proof of of when I opened the package:
(This is a screenshot from the unboxing video, this package matches the photo he sent me of the package before shipping it - see below)
Proof the package matches:
(The picture he send me before delivering the package to the shipping company)
Proof of delivery date:
Proof of my being out of country:
Condition photos:
(Watch was wiped down before pictures, so what you see is not dirt, but damage)
Sit back, relax because this is a long one.
I will tell the full story from my point of view and I am ready to back up any statement I have made by proof/evidence.
I will attach as much as I can, but should you want more evidence or context, contact me privately or here and I will provide further proof.
It started when I saw an ad for a white dial Clean Daytona V3 (116520) that supposedly had some mods which were, deep crystal and a gen/xing bezel (he believes it is gen, but didn’t want to sell it as gen because mods told him it wasn’t a gen, even though he bought it from a trusted source).
I contacted the seller / Mafrige and said that I wanted to purchase said watch and this is where he told me that since posting the sales ad, he had changed the dial from white to black, specifically an ARF V2 dial (according to him).
I say “according to him” as other people who know reps better then me have suspected this to be a bait and switch, which could mean that I didn’t receive a watch with any of these mods. I don’t know this for a fact, and people have said the opposite aswell therefore I won’t make that claim, but it is worth a mention.
Here I make my first mistake. As a fairly new member who dosnt use the forum that much, I did not know that I should have told him to update the sales thread, and since I didn’t know - I never asked him to do this. I suspect he knew that this would void any admin/mod help - which ofcause is what happened, admin/mods didn’t help, give advice or answer any questions regarding rules in the help desk ticket regarding this case - their first response is that I got an accurate description and depiction of what I bought, and secondly that it was a back door sale for those wondering.
I continue the conversation by asking for proof of mods, service/work, and that it in fact was a Clean V3, I also ask for more pictures where he sends a further 4 pictures (see photos below)
Here I make my second mistake - I studied the original (white dial) sales ad pictures a lot before contacting him as to not waste his time, and when he send the new pictures I looked them over fairly quickly as their quality wasn’t the best and I mistook some damage as a sun glare, specifically the missing enamel paint at the 130 on the bezel.
The condition he claimed the watch to be in on the sales ad was “Like new” and in private he stated the watch was (in his words) “brand new”. (See photo below)
So obviously he never mentioned any sort of damage or even that it would have hairlines in the many messages between us.
He kept putting pressure on me by saying he wanted to keep the watch himself so if I didn’t want to buy it, he would mark it as sold and keep it for himself and then when I didn’t respond he told me that he dosnt think that I would buy the watch because I took time to think (under 24h) - this is obviously a red flag now… but hindsight is 20/20.
We agreed on a price which was 830 EUR incl. shipping for the “brand new” Clean V3 Daytona with deep crystal, gen/xing bezel and the ARF V2 Dial.
I told him before sending funds that I would be leaving the country on the 16th of October. The watch ends up having an estimated delivery date on the 18th, but it ends up arriving on the 17th…
I am mentioning this as he believes the damage I am about to mention and show was done by me because I had the watch for a week if you ask him - which is not the case, and I have offered to send him an unboxing video with a time stamp and other proof that clearly show that I only got the watch on the 23rd of October.
On the 23rd October I finally get to open the package, which was packaged extremely well, so the following damage I will show was not caused by the shipping - almost instantly I notice multiple problems… the condition of the watch was not as he promised.
In the unboxing video I actually freeze up after looking at the watch for only 5 seconds, and show damage on camera at 8-9 seconds after seeing the watch - that is how much and obvious it was.
Just as a reminder, he referred to this watch as “brand new” and here I will list what I believe to be fraud at worst, or deceptive sales tactics at best.
These are the issues. (Besides hairlines)
- Deep crystal is scratches to oblivion
- The bezel is missing enamel in two places (at the 130 and at the line marker above the 85)
- Multiple deep and long scratches 2cm long on either side of the bezel
- A dent/scratch/scrape just below the 240
- The clasp had scratching, more then someone would consider hairlines
- The bracelet had a ding on a link
- Multiple screws were completely torn up, and one wasn’t even the correct length
- On the inside of the clasp there was scrapes/scratching
- I probably forgot something but you get the point.
The overall condition was bad - it DID NOT match what he described OR showed me.
Because I’m my opinion and I hope yours aswell, a “brand new” watch, should not even have hairlines, but those I could live with - this watch had heavy scratches, dents, dings all over and missing enamel paint two places.
Again, as a fairly new member I panic and make a thread asking other members for advice (where I deny naming names or linking to the seller myself until I was sure) taking their advice I first try to handle it with the seller (Mafrige), who flat out denies any wrongdoing and claims that I did all this damage due to me messaging him 5 days after the package was delivered.
I then make a help desk ticket where I got no response for 13 days, and no help due to the apparent back door sale.
I then go back to the seller ask him to find a mutual beneficial solution that works for us both - here is the first sentences of my initial message.
“Is it possible that we can discuss me getting some money in return for the undisclosed damage?
I want to be fair, so as long as I get enough to cover the enamel damage and the professional polish to get rid of the deep dents and scratches aswell as the hairlines ofcause.”
He then tells me that the issues will only cost around 10 euros to fix, where I go on to emphasise that I only want whatever the cost will be to fix it, so if that is 10 euros, I only want 10 euros, but I also say that I want to be fair - so I would be more then willing to find some middle ground in case the repair would cost a lot, even though it shouldn’t be on me as a buyer.
(At this point I hadn’t gotten ahold of any watchmaker, and therefore I did not know the price)
Mafrige again denies giving any money back - and he never answers a single of my messages again.
But in the original sales ad he does say that he will send me 50 euros back, when another member presents him with my evidence but then says if I would get the 50 euros then he would give me bad feedback - he never offered this to me, he only wrote this in his sales ad to look good I assume.
And to be clear I have received 0 euros from him in compensation, and I have not heard from him since 24th of October, even though I gave him multiple chances on these perspectives dates to make sure he had been online before I took action:
- 24th of October
- 6th of November
- 9th of November
Currently my cost to get the watch back to what he describes is around 200 euros, this is not a made up number, it is the number I have received from a watchmaker here in the forum who will do the restoration.
So it is fair to say after this long winded post, that I would strongly advise NOT to purchase from Mafrige.
I personally contacted a buyer of his who bought before me, prior to sending funds, and he didn’t raise any red flags. But I still advice not to buy from him, due to the fact that he goes agains RWI rules by not solving any after purchase issues, misleads in regards to condition, put the blame on the buyer and many other character issues if you ask me.
SAVE YOURSELF THE HASSLE, DISAPPOINTMENT AND YOUR MONEY, AND STAY AWAY FROM THIS SELLER.
As for the evidence:
Original sales pictures:
Photos sent in private:
Proof of of when I opened the package:
(This is a screenshot from the unboxing video, this package matches the photo he sent me of the package before shipping it - see below)
Proof the package matches:
(The picture he send me before delivering the package to the shipping company)
Proof of delivery date:
Proof of my being out of country:
Condition photos:
(Watch was wiped down before pictures, so what you see is not dirt, but damage)
